Plasticisers

term1te
term1te Posts: 1,462
edited October 2010 in Pro race
I work in the chemical industry, so I’m not completely ignorant about plasticisers, but clearly don’t know enough about them. Are the particular plasticisers that are allegedly turning up in urine samples only used in blood bags? I only ask as I remember a few years back a health scare (or quiet day on the BBC news desk) about plasticisers in baby’s dummies, toys, bottles and the like. I believe through their oestrogenic properties the country was going to run out of sperm and would be overrun by transgender crocodiles. Virtually everything plastic has some plasticiser in it, so unless fresh blood is a particularly good sink for the stuff how can they isolate the source?

I saw the paper someone posted with the medical study, but to me this only showed that the main exposure to plasticisers in a hospital environment is through a blood bag.

It’s Carlos Sastre I feel sorry for, after his dummy celebration he could be swimming with plasticisers.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/cyclings-best-worst-and-strangest-victory-salutes/118549

Comments

  • neiltb
    neiltb Posts: 332
    plasticisers are large compounds and typically the stuff that gives plastic it's odour, saline bags smell different to crisp packets.

    Large compounds like plasticisers when ingested are poorly absorbed (next to none) into the blood as the transit routes don't exist in the gut.

    High levels in the blood suggest IV use and the type will be able to be isolated if your test is good enough.

    being said, the plasticisers on blood bags could be very similar to saline?
    FCN 12
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    edited October 2010
    DEHP is apparently what they are testing for:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEHP

    Expect future peloton excuses to include "I have a habit of chewing lightsticks" to explain away elevated levels in their bloodstream :wink:

    The Inner Ring has an interesting take on all this science stuff..........
    http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... cling.html

    Edit: bad link fixed
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    So I guess the saddles in Bert's camp adverts are something of a phthalic symbol.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Bronzie wrote:
    DEHP is apparently what they are testing for:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate

    Expect future peloton excuses to include "I have a habit of chewing lightsticks" to explain away elevated levels in their bloodstream :wink:

    Correct linky here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis%282-et ... _phthalate

    This - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer - gives a summary of the various common ones and what they are used for. I *think* dibutyl phthalate is the one used in drinks bottles etc. but could be wrong. Thing is, a lot of these are being phased out. Perhaps someone in medical supplies could come along and tell us if transfusion equipment is now available which uses replacements for these molecules.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • term1te
    term1te Posts: 1,462
    DaveyL wrote:
    So I guess the saddles in Bert's camp adverts are something of a phthalic symbol.

    Groan :lol:
  • Wasn't there some kind of scare a while back about drinking from plastic bidons all the time?
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    I thought the German report mentioned that the traces were of a particular type of plasticiser only used in IV bags but could be wrong. Presumably if that is the case a rider could easily log any instances where they have needed genuine medical attention that has involved an IV drip and ensure the authorities are informed. If reliable, testing for these substances could be a big breakthrough in the doping war as they presumably can't be easily masked but the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Pross wrote:
    the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

    ^ This. But in the meantime, having the idea to test for DEHP is very clever. It made me smile, anyway, when I read about it.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

    ^ This. But in the meantime, having the idea to test for DEHP is very clever. It made me smile, anyway, when I read about it.

    It is great out of box thinking. Similar to when Ashenden said photograph transfusion points. Cheap and clever.

    But are there alternative materials you could use for this?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    :idea:

    Anyone got any old jam jars?

    fntbld_Blood.jpg
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    DaveyL wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

    ^ This. But in the meantime, having the idea to test for DEHP is very clever. It made me smile, anyway, when I read about it.


    Carting blood around the Tour in glass bottles will prove harder than a hiding a blood bag under a cut of SPanish beef in a cooler. Not impossible - but harder.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    iainf72 wrote:
    But are there alternative materials you could use for this?

    Probably. http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/DEHP ... xicity.htm

    "Materials exist which do not contain DEHP or other similar plasticizers, and which are currently being used in medical devices. These materials have the potential to be safer alternatives to DEHP-containing medical devices."

    People don't like DEHP cos it leeches from the medical kit (as we've seen :-) ). The particular worry seems to be the amount getting into newborn babies hooked up to medical kit.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Wasn't there some kind of scare a while back about drinking from plastic bidons all the time?-ShockedSoShocked

    Possibly, though we drink Sodas, Lucozade, etc. from plastic bottles, I would not think we taste plastic.

    Yet, I have a clear plastic bottle and the taste of plastic is actually distinct. I guess I won't really be using that bottle anymore. I wonder why it is this way?

    There was also that deal with PHP I believe being in the plastic of bottles. Best to go I guess, stainless steel for water bottles.
  • Wasn't there some kind of scare a while back about drinking from plastic bidons all the time?

    Yep - I used to have to get off me bike every 5 mins for a p*ss........................