Plasticisers

term1te

I work in the chemical industry, so I’m not completely ignorant about plasticisers, but clearly don’t know enough about them. Are the particular plasticisers that are allegedly turning up in urine samples only used in blood bags? I only ask as I remember a few years back a health scare (or quiet day on the BBC news desk) about plasticisers in baby’s dummies, toys, bottles and the like. I believe through their oestrogenic properties the country was going to run out of sperm and would be overrun by transgender crocodiles. Virtually everything plastic has some plasticiser in it, so unless fresh blood is a particularly good sink for the stuff how can they isolate the source?

I saw the paper someone posted with the medical study, but to me this only showed that the main exposure to plasticisers in a hospital environment is through a blood bag.

It’s Carlos Sastre I feel sorry for, after his dummy celebration he could be swimming with plasticisers.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/cyclings-best-worst-and-strangest-victory-salutes/118549

neiltb

plasticisers are large compounds and typically the stuff that gives plastic it's odour, saline bags smell different to crisp packets.

Large compounds like plasticisers when ingested are poorly absorbed (next to none) into the blood as the transit routes don't exist in the gut.

High levels in the blood suggest IV use and the type will be able to be isolated if your test is good enough.

being said, the plasticisers on blood bags could be very similar to saline?

Bronzie

DEHP is apparently what they are testing for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEHP

Expect future peloton excuses to include "I have a habit of chewing lightsticks" to explain away elevated levels in their bloodstream

The Inner Ring has an interesting take on all this science stuff..........
http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... cling.html

Edit: bad link fixed

DaveyL

So I guess the saddles in Bert's camp adverts are something of a phthalic symbol.

DaveyL

Bronzie wrote:

DEHP is apparently what they are testing for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate

Expect future peloton excuses to include "I have a habit of chewing lightsticks" to explain away elevated levels in their bloodstream

Correct linky here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis%282-et ... _phthalate

This - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer - gives a summary of the various common ones and what they are used for. I *think* dibutyl phthalate is the one used in drinks bottles etc. but could be wrong. Thing is, a lot of these are being phased out. Perhaps someone in medical supplies could come along and tell us if transfusion equipment is now available which uses replacements for these molecules.

term1te

DaveyL wrote:

So I guess the saddles in Bert's camp adverts are something of a phthalic symbol.

Groan

shockedsoshocked

Wasn't there some kind of scare a while back about drinking from plastic bidons all the time?

Pross

I thought the German report mentioned that the traces were of a particular type of plasticiser only used in IV bags but could be wrong. Presumably if that is the case a rider could easily log any instances where they have needed genuine medical attention that has involved an IV drip and ensure the authorities are informed. If reliable, testing for these substances could be a big breakthrough in the doping war as they presumably can't be easily masked but the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

DaveyL

Pross wrote:

the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

^ This. But in the meantime, having the idea to test for DEHP is very clever. It made me smile, anyway, when I read about it.

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Pross wrote:

the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

^ This. But in the meantime, having the idea to test for DEHP is very clever. It made me smile, anyway, when I read about it.

It is great out of box thinking. Similar to when Ashenden said photograph transfusion points. Cheap and clever.

But are there alternative materials you could use for this?

Bronzie

:idea:

Anyone got any old jam jars?

Pokerface

DaveyL wrote:

Pross wrote:

the dopers will probably find a way of using an alternaive material to hold the blood.

^ This. But in the meantime, having the idea to test for DEHP is very clever. It made me smile, anyway, when I read about it.

Carting blood around the Tour in glass bottles will prove harder than a hiding a blood bag under a cut of SPanish beef in a cooler. Not impossible - but harder.

DaveyL

iainf72 wrote:

But are there alternative materials you could use for this?

Probably. http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/DEHP ... xicity.htm

"Materials exist which do not contain DEHP or other similar plasticizers, and which are currently being used in medical devices. These materials have the potential to be safer alternatives to DEHP-containing medical devices."

People don't like DEHP cos it leeches from the medical kit (as we've seen :-) ). The particular worry seems to be the amount getting into newborn babies hooked up to medical kit.

cajun_cyclist

Wasn't there some kind of scare a while back about drinking from plastic bidons all the time?-ShockedSoShocked

Possibly, though we drink Sodas, Lucozade, etc. from plastic bottles, I would not think we taste plastic.

Yet, I have a clear plastic bottle and the taste of plastic is actually distinct. I guess I won't really be using that bottle anymore. I wonder why it is this way?

There was also that deal with PHP I believe being in the plastic of bottles. Best to go I guess, stainless steel for water bottles.

itisaboutthebike

Wasn't there some kind of scare a while back about drinking from plastic bidons all the time?

Yep - I used to have to get off me bike every 5 mins for a p*ss........................