high earners to lose child benefit

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Comments

  • Slow Downcp
    Slow Downcp Posts: 3,041
    Why just take it off high earners? If they are going to scrap it, they should scrap it for all. There's too much emphasis placed on penalising one group that can be bothered to get qualified, and make sacrifices to get to the point to earn a high wage, but keep giving to those who have lower paid jobs. This country is getting to the point that there's no point working hard to better yourself - have seven kids, never works, and get £80k a year in benefits. Make a career, have kids, pay for the fat idle scrounger with seven kids.
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  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    gkerr4 wrote:

    so you'll live with people on the dole going on foreign holidays at the taxpayer expense - but cannot tolerate someone who is earning £55k (who pays around £18k a year in income tax on that) at the point where losing £30 a week can no-longer eat out in restaurants.
    right - that sounds fair..
    oh no, hang on.

    Feel free to highlight anywhere where I have condoned this. Thanks.
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    edited out

    I can't be bothered - we won't ever agree on this.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    What do you say to all the people who pay the same taxes as you, but have no children - so therefore can't claim this benefit?

    Why should they have to pay so YOU can raise kids (or eat out at restaurants as part of this discussion would indicate?)
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    gkerr4 wrote:

    so you'll live with people on the dole going on foreign holidays at the taxpayer expense - but cannot tolerate someone who is earning £55k (who pays around £18k a year in income tax on that) at the point where losing £30 a week can no-longer eat out in restaurants.
    right - that sounds fair..
    oh no, hang on.


    Just curious where you are getting this from?

    A - if you;re on the dole - you don't get paid if you leave the country
    B - if you're on the dole - the amount they pay you is so little that it's hard enough to make ends meet - let alone go on holiday. Anywhere.
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    sorry - come back to answer this.

    you can claim dole in any european country - as you can any benefits if you are deemed entitled to do so (indeed it could be argued that you were looking for work in euro-land)

    they do indeed pay enough. A friend of my wife "earns" over £20k in benefits (tax free so the equiv of what, £33k salary) , is able bodied, has a new car changed every two years, a 4-bed detached house and regularly holidays in Florida inbetween the many trips to centre parcs.

    still grudge that guy his monthly meal out?
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    I had so many points to make on this - all conflicting each other :?

    Anyway, my point now is this - the Government/Establishment no longer works for us (did it ever?) we all either work to keep it going or are dependant on it. Anyone thinking they can be self sufficient better keep their means to themselves or it will be cut.
    No, I am not marxist or even slightly left wing, simply more & more cynical on a daily basis. :cry:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    gkerr4 wrote:
    so you'll live with people on the dole going on foreign holidays at the taxpayer expense

    What planet are you on? The dole is £65/week. And if you go on holiday you won't get any money for that period of time as you aren't actively seeking work.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    gkerr4 wrote:
    you can claim dole in any european country - as you can any benefits if you are deemed entitled to do so (indeed it could be argued that you were looking for work in euro-land)

    You have to be looking for work. There is a time limit for how long you can spend abroad to attend a job interview (when I did this a few years back it was 4 days).
    gkerr4 wrote:
    they do indeed pay enough. A friend of my wife "earns" over £20k in benefits (tax free so the equiv of what, £33k salary) , is able bodied, has a new car changed every two years, a 4-bed detached house and regularly holidays in Florida inbetween the many trips to centre parcs.

    Your wife's friend must be on the fiddle. Report her to Social Security.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    gkerr4 wrote:
    sorry - come back to answer this.

    you can claim dole in any european country - as you can any benefits if you are deemed entitled to do so (indeed it could be argued that you were looking for work in euro-land)

    they do indeed pay enough. A friend of my wife "earns" over £20k in benefits (tax free so the equiv of what, £33k salary) , is able bodied, has a new car changed every two years, a 4-bed detached house and regularly holidays in Florida inbetween the many trips to centre parcs.

    still grudge that guy his monthly meal out?

    Your friend's wife is full of sh!t. And is not on the dole.

    As has been stated, the dole is about £65 a week. Add to that possibly housing benefit - and you're looking at a max of about £150 a week for an able-bodied person actively looking for work. And this is all based on her husband not having any income.

    In order to achieve the levels you are speaking about - she is clearly cheating the system somehow - if it's even possible.
  • Weejie54
    Weejie54 Posts: 750
    A friend of my wife "earns" over £20k in benefits (tax free so the equiv of what, £33k salary) , is able bodied, has a new car changed every two years, a 4-bed detached house and regularly holidays in Florida inbetween the many trips to centre parcs.

    Always seems to be a 'friend' somebody else.

    What particular benefits does this friend receive?

    Most unemployment benefits (for those registered as unemployed) are taxable - and someone on over £20k would likely be paying tax.

    If the person is 'able bodied' it won't be someone legitimately claiming disability benefits.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAnd ... G_10027059
  • petejuk
    petejuk Posts: 235
    To me, the theory has some virtue, in that those on higher incomes shouldn't have child benefit. I just think that, as you move up the pay ladder, you should expect less financial support from the Government. I am also of the opinion that those who choose not to work and choose benefit grabbing as a career choice need weeding out of the system and have their benefits removed. More time and effort should be spent on making the benefit system fair, not a half arsed, ham fisted attempt at clawing back a bit of cash here and there.
  • Oh Dear me, how will they be able to afford to feed their horse's and their dogs, in 2013 when they loose their child benefits.

    damn it only 4 Holidays in 2013 instead of 5

    SHOCKING :roll:
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    'Tis a pretty standard policy.

    Surprised it's created so much furor. Most likely reason must be because it's a vehicle for people to winge about people on Jobseekers allowance etc. (as we can see in this thread)

    If you think this is bad....
  • father_jack
    father_jack Posts: 3,509
    I don't people earning £200,000 should be entitled to CB, if they have stupid amounts of income, 4 cars between the parents etc.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    I don't people earning £200,000 should be entitled to CB, if they have stupid amounts of income, 4 cars between the parents etc.

    Out of interest, do you think of someone earning around £45k as a 'high' earner?

    Or can I make some sweeping generalisation of the type of earnings the average tabloid reader has? I fear I'd be treading on thin ice if I did....
  • father_jack
    father_jack Posts: 3,509
    I'd say it's in the "very comfortable" bracket. Unless you live in london, in which case you're probably can only afford to rent something like Bender's apartment lol
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  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    petejuk wrote:
    To me, the theory has some virtue, in that those on higher incomes shouldn't have child benefit. I just think that, as you move up the pay ladder, you should expect less financial support from the Government. I am also of the opinion that those who choose not to work and choose benefit grabbing as a career choice need weeding out of the system and have their benefits removed. More time and effort should be spent on making the benefit system fair, not a half arsed, ham fisted attempt at clawing back a bit of cash here and there.

    How would you distinguish between the people who are making efforts to find work and those who aren't?

    I would imagine that Job Centre staff would be pretty good at telling the difference straight away, but putting that sort of power into the hands of members of staff would be open to abuse and the possibility of personal feelings clouding judgement.
  • johnfinch wrote:

    How would you distinguish between the people who are making efforts to find work and those who aren't?

    I would imagine that Job Centre staff would be pretty good at telling the difference straight away, but putting that sort of power into the hands of members of staff would be open to abuse and the possibility of personal feelings clouding judgement.

    Easy if they have been on the dole for 5 years or more I would shoot them. Simple

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  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Easy if they have been on the dole for 5 years or more I would shoot them. Simple

    :lol::lol::lol:

    I shall now re-double me efforts to find a job. :wink:

    But although you're joking (I hope), what about those suffering age discrimination? Particularly in areas of high unemployment or having lost a job due to the collapse of certain industries.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    edited October 2010
    JKHinton wrote:
    Oh Dear me, how will they be able to afford to feed their horse's and their dogs, in 2013 when they loose their child benefits.

    damn it only 4 Holidays in 2013 instead of 5

    SHOCKING :roll:

    Hypothetically, I know someone not working & claiming benefits who does in fact feed her horse.
    Hypothetically, she is pissed off that she can only have one holiday in Egypt this year instead of the previous 3.
    Hypothetically, I would report her but I can't think on what basis other than claiming for absolutely everything available. (hypothetically she may have been borderline for a while but is now legit after hypothetical arguments within the family).
    Hypothetically, one MP will take more in dodgy expenses in one year than she will claim in decades.

    Real life is never straightforward and all or some of the above may or may not be true.

    I believe some people really need benefits and should get them. That level is below £45k/annum.
    I believe benefits should be means tested.
    I believe that ALL means should be accounted for. Lies, damned lies and statistics.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    johnfinch wrote:
    Your wife's friend must be on the fiddle. Report her to Social Security.

    i've always thought this - but apparently not!

    I doubt she's alone
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited October 2010
    gkerr4 wrote:

    i've always thought this - but apparently not!

    I doubt she's alone

    You'd hope she isn't alone.

    Where would the husband be otherwise? :?
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    Weejie54 wrote:

    Always seems to be a 'friend' somebody else.

    What particular benefits does this friend receive?

    Most unemployment benefits (for those registered as unemployed) are taxable - and someone on over £20k would likely be paying tax.

    If the person is 'able bodied' it won't be someone legitimately claiming disability benefits.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAnd ... G_10027059

    what exactly are you saying there you cheeky fuck??

    she doesn't work - has four kids, no husband.

    I don't know the figure she takes, obviously, but I do know about the new car and the holidays as I am jealous of them!

    (i don't have a 4-bed detached house either but as it is in a shit area I'll let that one go....)
  • I'm a 40% tax payer, have two children, am educated and have worked hard to get to the place I'm at with my family.

    Just because I'm a 40% tax payer doesn't mean I have a great flexibility in the family monthly budget and at the end of each month I'm only just keeping our heads above water. The UK is an expensive place to live and we are all going to have to pay for the previous Governments mismanagement of our economy and overspending.

    I think it's right that we shouldn't get child benefit and it will mean we'll have to tighten our belts but it is a "benefit" and not "income", but on the flip side it's very wrong that the measurement isn't being applied to families total joint income.

    I believe it is right that those who are wealthier pay more for services, however what seems to be reality is that society is grouped into 3 sections - the benefit claiments, the working masses, and the wealthy - the bottom and top groups seem to be on top of their position either through playing the benefits system, or manipulating wealth to avoid the tax system. The hard working majority in the middle are getting squeezed by the system because they can't claim benefits and are within the normal tax system.

    Oh and to all those that say "don't have children if you can't afford it" ......

    a) if we all thought that way then the human race would soon die out.
    b) sometimes they come along unplanned, even when trying to prevent it (twice) !!!
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  • it seems to me to be a bit of not in my back yard you can cut someones benefits who can really not afford it but how dare you cut mine. it reminds me of a story my father in law told me someone came in to buy a new car and was told they didn't earn enough so they said we will chuck in the kids tax credits and he passed so it just go's to show most people can do without.and if they can't sell your second home.
  • father_jack
    father_jack Posts: 3,509
    Although even if they scrap benefit, I'm sure goverment would waste it on something, blow a few billion on a chocolate teapot or something. And then put the blame somewhere else.
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  • Weejie54
    Weejie54 Posts: 750
    what exactly are you saying there you cheeky fark??

    she doesn't work - has four kids, no husband.

    I don't know the figure she takes, obviously, but I do know about the new car and the holidays as I am jealous of them!

    (i don't have a 4-bed detached house either but as it is in a shoot area I'll let that one go....)

    I'm saying that if she is on any unemployment related benefits and receives as much as you claim she does, she will be paying tax. Either you are mistaken or you are making it up.

    Nothing cheeky in that. The facts were pointed out to you.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,271
    I haven't bothered to follow the full debate here, but I feel that the introduction to the (American) film Idiocracy, could be informative:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXRjmyJFzrU
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  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Pokerface wrote:
    What do you say to all the people who pay the same taxes as you, but have no children - so therefore can't claim this benefit?

    Why should they have to pay so YOU can raise kids (or eat out at restaurants as part of this discussion would indicate?)

    OK so those with no kids make no contribution to raising ours - on condition when they are older you get no share in any tax revenue they pay - deal ?

    Don't tell me your national insurance is going to pay for your old age - all that is gone and more - we are broke - the only way you are going to get healthcare, a state pension etc etc is if the kids of today pay for it - so why shouldn't you contribute a bit to the cost of their upkeep. In fact parents put the time in so the financial burden should fall entirely on the childless - £20 a week - it should be more like £200.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.

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