Best approach when looking for a new job

macs

My work place have recently had to lay off 3 people and as there were on 17 of us anyway its quite a big chunk. Workload is slipping away a little bit so i'm starting to think of looking for a new job. I dont want to leave as the work we do is quite interesting but if there is no work i dont really want to hang around.

I don't think I need to be particularly pro-active at this stage so i think that sending my CV directly to companies is off for the time being but i want to keep my eye open for jobs in the area.

Is keeping an eye on recruitment sites a good idea?
or should I try to sign up with an agency?

And if i should do either of the above, what sites/agencies should i use?

The kind of job i'm looking for is Structural Technician / Engineering Technician and im based in the East Midlands if that makes any difference.

Any constructive advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks

guinea

It's always a good idea to understand the market you work in. Even if you are very happy in your work you should be aware of opportunities, rates and trends in skills. Find out what wesites work best for you and check them out once or twice a month.

If you want to get to or remain at the top of your proffeesion and be rewarded appropriately you need to be aware of the market. Trade mags will only tell you so much, the job ads tell you what's real on the ground.

I've just started a new job after 11 yearsin the previous one, but I still check the market very often.

Agencies are only interested in you if your are looking to be placed now. Unless you have a specific contacts, I'd steer clear. The only time to be dealing with them is when you see an advert you like, or you are actually looking for a job. Agencies are salesmen and usually only interested in you if you're going to provide them with a quick commission.

Good luck. Research all the time.

greasedscotsman

I'm in a very similar position. I work as a structural technician for a private company doing public work and due to spending cuts, the company I work for is "resturcturing" which will result in people going. Hasn't quite got to me yet, but I feel it's only a matter of time.

So I've been looking for work for most of the year and tbh, there is bugger all out there at the moment. The only sector that seems to be picking up at the moment is timber frame, I get an couple of emails a months for timber frame companies looking for people. In fact, the last one I had was for a company in Coventry, does that count as East Midlands? I can forward you some details if you like?

But good luck anyway, hopefully you can weather the storm and not have to switch what you do as some many other people have had to do in the last couple of years.

greasedscotsman

sorry, double post...

greasedscotsman

sorry, triple post!

sungod

avoid agencies if you can - in the company i work for, agency recruiting is the *least* attractive, the company website has job ads, and sites like http://www.monster.co.uk/ are used as well

keep an eye on job ads from companies that you'd want to work for, even if an ad isn't for a job you'd go for, it's a sign that the company is able to recruit and may be worth a direct approach

sheffsimon

If and when you do get to the 'sending the CV' stage, make sure that it is bang-on, meaning no spelling mistakes, no changes of font, random capital letters, poor layout, not overlong, no lists of pointless interests (eg spending time with family is not interest or hobby, just life, neither is reading!).

I've recruited 4 engineers for positions working for engineering departments I've managed and you get some utter sh1te thru the post if you have a position advertised. All of the above have been reasons for discarding applicants by me in the past. I daresay some would have been good candidates, but if they cant make an effort with the application then f00k 'em, I say.

Agencies are a pain, only ever used them for recruiting subbies. Never for permanent staff, dont do enough for the thousands they charge.

jc4lab

If you jump ship now will you be giving up a lump sum payoff?....Might pay for that RTW bike trip youve always dreamed of..

rick_chasey

It's a very difficult time to move.

Make sure you are prepared for what that means - i.e. likelihood of loads of rejections, for jobs you are probably well suited to.

Don't let that get you down. People want confidence in interviews. Scores of rejections can seriously dent that confidence. It certainly hurt mine.

craker

I have to say that alot of jobs posted by agencies in my field (programming) look like phishing scams just to get CVs - there are always fairly unspecific vacancies for, eg, 'International Financial house needs programmer, £100K + '

Last time I was looking for jobs I'd apply for something to find it wasn't really suitable for me, followed by a barrage of phone calls about entirely different jobs the length and breadth of the country. Agencies like to have CVs to put on the desks of HR departments and they're not fussy.

However it may be that agencies in your area are the de-facto way of getting interviews, it's probably worth phoning up an agency when you see something that interests you and developing some sort of relationship with the recruiter - that way you haven't splurged your personal details to everyone the recruiter sees fit to share with and you may get the good leads sooner.

guinea

Rick Chasey wrote:

Don't let that get you down. People want confidence in interviews.

That's why you should always look for work when you have a job.

You can be a lot more relaxed if you already have a job and there's no pressure if you don't get it. You still get to put food on the table.

macs

I have a quick question re agencies - does websites like hays, monster, matchtech etc count as agencies or are they recruitment sites? and whats the difference?

Headhuunter

I work for an "agency", well actually a headhunter (hence the name). We work in a slightly different way on up 6 and 7 figure salary placements at investment banks. We're appointed by a bank to find a specific type of person and then spend many months researching the market before the role is filled, sometimes it can take up to 8 or 9 months. We do not tend to respond to people sending CVs in, we find people, they don't find us.

We operate at a different end of a spectrum of companies and at the other extreme is the "churn and burn" agency which will, as you say, place fake job ads (highly illegal) to garner CVs which can then be sprayed into the market. CVs are an agency's product, the more product you have the better you are.

Having said that some agencies are more responsible than others, the problem is trying to work out which the responsible ones are in your particular field, speak to people you know in your area to find out who the best agencies are. As someone has pointed out, you could try developing a relationship with a particular recruiter at an agency, however more often than not they are paid on a commission basis and won't necessarily want to spend a lot of time yakking to you on the phone giving free advice when they can be marketing. They come under a lot of pressure to make money and chatting for half an hour with a single candidate doesn't do this.

I think I would tend only to send my CV in response to job ads with apparently reliable recruitment firms, possibly only after a call into someone at the agency to have a brief chat about the role. Certainly, avoiding recruiters altogether saves potential employers money in fees, so if you hear of something direct, send your CV straight to HR or even better, the actual hiring manager.

Recruitment agencies are not always an utter waste of time however, they do sometimes have their finger on the pulse and may be able to slot you straight in somewhere. If you work in IT you probably have an awful view of recruiters, IT recruitment is the lowest of the low, utter churn and burn... The sort of people you see on The Apprentice.

Suffolkwheels

In my experience, 9/10 recruitment agencies are just a nightmare to deal with. However, I did just sort myself a great new role (after a LOT of hunting) via Michael Page; worth a look. Alternatively, knock on the doors of your competitors - if you do this, phone them, don't just lob yer CV in.

Headhuunter

Suffolkwheels wrote:

In my experience, 9/10 recruitment agencies are just a nightmare to deal with. However, I did just sort myself a great new role (after a LOT of hunting) via Michael Page; worth a look. Alternatively, knock on the doors of your competitors - if you do this, phone them, don't just lob yer CV in.

They're a nightmare to deal with because if your CV doesn't fit any roles they have to fill then you are nothing to them. To think of it from the recruiters perspective, these people are generally paid horribly low base salaries and have a target of 3-4 times this to make in revenue before they start to hit commission. If they miss their target for a couple of quarters or something, they're out. The pressure is very much on.

Agencies are not "job centres" where you go to shoot the breeze with someone about your potential and where you see yourself in 5 years etc, some people tend to assume they can wander in off the street and a recruitment agent will happily spend an hour or 2 discussing life and work with them. Agencies are simply money centres and time is very much money! Your CV is a product to be marketed. If it has no potential to be sold to clients it goes to the bottom of the pile and the next CV is picked up. Agencies like Michael Page get sent thousands upon thousands of CVs per day, they're volume businesses and your CV is just a number.

Of course you can bypass agencies and call into firms to market yourself direct, but if you don't know who to speak to, this can take time. Agencies spend hours calling in to firms to develop contacts and have fairly initimate knowledge of whom to speak to. This is what recruiters spend their time doing - not speaking to candidates but trying to ingratiate themselves on clients over the other guy at the next recruitment agent. This is what they need to be spending their time on rather than talking to you about your "options".

I would use a combination of your own contacts and phone calls and agencies. Agencies can be useful but may not always get you the job.

Headhuunter

Suffolkwheels wrote:

In my experience, 9/10 recruitment agencies are just a nightmare to deal with. However, I did just sort myself a great new role (after a LOT of hunting) via Michael Page; worth a look. Alternatively, knock on the doors of your competitors - if you do this, phone them, don't just lob yer CV in.

They're a nightmare to deal with because if your CV doesn't fit any roles they have to fill then you are nothing to them. To think of it from the recruiters perspective, these people are generally paid horribly low base salaries and have a target of 3-4 times this to make in revenue before they start to hit commission. If they miss their target for a couple of quarters or something, they're out. The pressure is very much on.

Agencies are not "job centres" where you go to shoot the breeze with someone about your potential and where you see yourself in 5 years etc, some people tend to assume they can wander in off the street and a recruitment agent will happily spend an hour or 2 discussing life and work with them. Agencies are simply money centres and time is very much money! Your CV is a product to be marketed. If it has no potential to be sold to clients it goes to the bottom of the pile and the next CV is picked up. Agencies like Michael Page get sent thousands upon thousands of CVs per day, they're volume businesses and your CV is just a number.

Of course you can bypass agencies and call into firms to market yourself direct, but if you don't know who to speak to, this can take time. Agencies spend hours calling in to firms to develop contacts and have fairly initimate knowledge of whom to speak to. This is what recruiters spend their time doing - not speaking to candidates but trying to ingratiate themselves on clients over the other guy at the next recruitment agent. This is what they need to be spending their time on rather than talking to you about your "options".

I would use a combination of your own contacts and phone calls and agencies. Agencies can be useful but may not always get you the job.

jc4lab

My experience of agencies is only bad..but I actually do prefer those with a ruthless honesty.and say no.you are too old etc..if thats the way it is...but every cloud as they say..The rip off Fees agencies charge an employer has one good Upside..it costs your employer an absolute fortune to replace you . :twisted:

Headhuunter

jc4lab wrote:

My experience of agencies is only bad..but I actually do prefer those with a ruthless honesty.and say no.you are too old etc..if thats the way it is...but every cloud as they say..The rip off Fees agencies charge an employer has one good Upside..it costs your employer an absolute fortune to replace you . :twisted:

They're not allowed to refer to age in any way anymore or you can sue them. DOB should not even feature on CVs. SInce about 2006 or 2007 I think.

You call them "rip off fees", however the fact that employers are willing to pay these fees suggests that it would cost more for them to do it in house. It's just like anything else.

We're a recruitment firm and we employ and outside IT agency to manage our computers and phone network. The IT firm charges "rip off" fees in my opinion and seem to drift in at about 10 and leave at 3 (if they're with us) and not do much at all, however for us to actually employ an IT team would be more expensive.

It's the same for employers looking for talent, for them to actually spend hours and hours trawling websites, dredging for CVs, placing ads in the relevant press and trawling through the thousands of CVs, arranging interviews, doing the interviews etc etc takes time and time equals money!

If they can find a trustworthy agency which knows their firm and knows exactly what sort of people they hire and can tell them, without doubt, that if the interview these 5 people and make a pick, they have seen the best in the market and do not need to waste any more time on it, then that's worth a lot.

Pross

The problem for the OP is that pretty much every firm in that type of work is in a similar position. Some are starting to just come out of things as private development work starts to pick up again but the market is cut throat with fees down probably 50% on 2 years ago which means even companies who have a decent workload can't afford to recruit and are just getting more out of their existing employees who will work a lot of unpaid overtime as they feel they are lucky to be in a job. In the very rare cases where companies are recruiting there is more supply than demand thanks to the numbers of people made redundant over the past 2 years so it is a buyers market and salaries are down about 25% from what I can tell from the few jobs I've seen advertised.

The recession has also caused Agencies problems so whereas I would get called weekly offering me an unsolicited job interview a couple of years back the only calls I get now are to ask if we are recruiting. Like many others I am also a bit dubious of Agencies and have seen their fake job adverts too often in the past. Added to that the company I work for had a situation in the past where one agency put forward someone for interview and another agent we dealt with and who had the same candidate on their books rubbished our company as she was worried that she would lose commission if we employed the guy! In the good times they often also call people they have placed once they have done the minimum required term to keep their fees and try to get them to move on. However, if you do go down the Agency route you need to find someone that specialises in your line of work. from a Civils point of view I have found Anders Elite to be pretty good (i.e. not as bad as some others!).

jc4lab

A small blemish on your non perfect CV and you fall at the first hurdle with Job agencies so jump clear of them..Crtieria for recruitment at my Firm was can you play Cricket.(or Chess which the boss loves to play)...if you can you will never get the sack no matter how useless you are

Headhuunter

jc4lab wrote:

A small blemish on your non perfect CV and you fall at the first hurdle with Job agencies so jump clear of them..Crtieria for recruitment at my Firm was can you play Cricket.(or Chess which the boss loves to play)...if you can you will never get the sack no matter how useless you are

Yep, illegal as it is, it often comes down to this. People are people and tend to want to hire in their own image...