'No more war on the motorist'
Comments
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thelawnet wrote:
<post snipping>
1. "28,567 people were killed or seriously injured last year, a decline of 7% on 2007."
That's a lot of people killed or seriously injured, many of whom, unlike most other causes of death, will be young and in good health.
2. take a look at the developing world, where road deaths kill more children than AIDS or malaria.
3. Bikes don't need to travel at 30mph. Most people just want to get to the shops. 10mph is quite adequate, and not really any slower than driving for 2-3 mile journeys, considering parking
4. I think the point is that a proper bike lane is going to take as much room as a typical urban motor vehicle lane - not because bikes take up as much space, but to provide physical separation from both pedestrians and motor vehicles.
1. According the Guardian article from which this came, 124 children were killed that year. A lot fewer than a lot of other causes of death in children, I'd bet.
2. Source? And is that a direct like-for-like stat? People who die of malaria vs people who die in car collisions?
3. Speak. For. Your. Self. Your notions of what is "adequate" may be fine for you. Don't presume to apply them to others.
4. Suggests that a "proper" bike lane isn't a very efficient use of road space.0 -
The single most common cause of death for children under 14 in this country?
The motor car.
The single thing most likely to kill teenage girls in this country?
Their boyfriend's driving:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article658869.ece
Put it this way, abductions and murders by paedophiles run at around 8 per year, the rate is unchanged since the fifties, a horrible figure.
Meanwhile, ten children EVERY DAY are killed or seriously injured on the roads.
Kind of puts this "War" against motorists in perspective...0 -
mybreakfastconsisted wrote:The single most common cause of death for children under 14 in this country?
The motor car.
The single thing most likely to kill teenage girls in this country?
Their boyfriend's driving:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article658869.ece
Put it this way, abductions and murders by paedophiles run at around 8 per year, the rate is unchanged since the fifties, a horrible figure.
Meanwhile, ten children EVERY DAY are killed or seriously injured on the roads.
Kind of puts this "War" against motorists in perspective...
From the linked article:But what struck us the most through our research for our latest film was that one of the biggest killers of teenage girls in Britain was their boyfriends’ bad driving
Subtle difference. Not the same thing "single thing most likely to kill"
How many of the child deaths "caused" by the motor car were deaths of occupants of the vehicles, caused by inadequate use of safety restraints in the vehicle? In fact, what's the source of that statement?0 -
mybreakfastconsisted wrote:The single most common cause of death for children under 14 in this country?
The motor car.
The single thing most likely to kill teenage girls in this country?
Their boyfriend's driving:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article658869.ece
Put it this way, abductions and murders by paedophiles run at around 8 per year, the rate is unchanged since the fifties, a horrible figure.
Meanwhile, ten children EVERY DAY are killed or seriously injured on the roads.
Kind of puts this "War" against motorists in perspective...
From the Times article
But what struck us the most through our research for our latest film was that one of the biggest killers of teenage girls in Britain was their boyfriends’ bad driving.”
Although the charity has not been able to find statistics on the number of fatal car crashes involving teenage boys, during their research they came across many cases. In the film Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire, says: “One fact quoted to me quite often is that the single biggest killer now of teenage girls is their teenage boyfriends driving their cars.”
Not quite the same thing is it?
You seem to have no issue with the newspapers making sh!t up so long as it tallies with your world view.
Also you haven't given a source for first your claim that the most common cause of death for children under 14 is the motor car.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Scalped by Greg66
The shame“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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House of Commons - Transport, Local Government and the Regions ...Road crashes are the single biggest killer of school age children, ...
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/files/speedkills.pdf
Road traffic accidents, not Aids, cancer or any other disease, are the biggest killer of young people worldwide, experts warn.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6572283.stm
Children suffer particularly. Road crashes are the single biggest killer of school age children, accounting for "two-thirds of premature child deaths".
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... /55704.htm0 -
Traffic accidents are the biggest killer of adolescent girls in rich countries, the World Health Organisation said yesterday. In its report, Women and Health - the first global comparison of women's health from birth to death.
The WHO found that in Europe, the US and other high-income countries, road accidents accounted for more than a quarter of all deaths among 10- to 19-year-olds.
Self-inflicted injuries (9.5%), violence (5%) and leukaemia (4.2%) were the next biggest cause of fatalities.
http://news.patient.co.uk/newspaper.asp?ss=10&pc=2923
Kevin Watkins, the author of the FIA report and an academic at Oxford University's global economic governance programme, said the figures should be a "global wake-up call" ahead of a UN summit in New York next week. The summit is to review progress towards eight millennium development goals that focus on issues such as child mortality and hunger.
Watkins said that more lives, of those aged five to 14, were lost on the roads than to "malaria, diarrhoea and HIV/Aids".
Unlike these deadly diseases, road traffic injuries were "conspicuous by their absence from the international development agenda".
By failing to pay attention to road deaths, he said, the worthy ambitions of UN goals, such as universal primary education, were undermined.
"It doesn't take rocket science to work out that primary school kids should not be crossing six-lane highways to get to school … Likewise setting targets for cutting mortality rates among children aged up to five and then turning a blind eye to road deaths, one of the biggest killers of five to 14-year-olds, is not just irrational, it is ethically indefensible."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... or-nations
Hammond's posturing, withdrawing funding for speed cameras, opposing a zero drink drive limit, pandering to Clarkson and his sociopath followers, means Hammond will have blood on his hands. The risk of course is externalised. Sure, many speeding or drunk drivers kill themselves. More commonly they kill someone else, often a child.0 -
"Clarkson and his sociopath followers"
WTF, Top Gear is not some sort of sinister cult
You really need to grow a sense of humour you know. Let's try: here are a few quotes from the great JC which are really rather funny. BTW, have you ever been abused by a tall curly haired bloke in a red Ferrari?
"I'm sorry, but having a DB9 on the drive and not driving it is a bit like having Keira Knightley in your bed and sleeping on the couch. If you've got even half a scrotum it's not going to happen."
"We start tonight with the highlight of my childhood. It's the Ladybird Book of Motorcars from 1963, and as you would imagine it's full of rubbish really. Just endless boring grey shapes, until you get to page 40, where you find the Maserati 3500 GT. Now this for me, when I was little, was like kind of Jordan and Cameron Diaz. In a bath together. With a Lightning jet fighter. And lots of jelly."
About the Porsche Cayman S: "There are many things I'd rather be doing than driving it, including waiting for Bernard Manning to come off stage in a sweaty nightclub, and then licking his back clean."
..."the last time someone was as wrong as you, was when a politician stepped off an aeroplane in 1938 waving a piece of paper in the air saying there will be no war with Germany"
"America: 250 million w * nkers living in a country with no word for w * nker"
On the Alfa Romeo Brera... "I only have to imagine this in black, with tan leather and I'm nursing a semi!"
Illustrating the lack of power of a Boxster - 'It couldn't pull a greased stick out of a pig's bottom'
"The Suzuki Wagon R should be avoided like unprotected sex with an Ethiopian transvestite"
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you."
'The air conditioning in Lambos used to be an asthmatic sitting in the dashboard blowing at you through a straw'
"Koenigsegg are saying that the CCX is more comfortable. More comfortable than what... BEING STABBED?"
"The only person to ever look good in the back of a 4-seater convertible was Adolf Hitler"
(Fed up during the caravanning trip): "You aren't allowed to have a party, you aren't allowed to have music, you aren't allowed to play ball games, you aren't allowed to have a camp fire, you have to park within two feet of a post, you have to keep quiet, you have to be in bed by eleven. This is not a holiday, it's a concentration camp!"
"This is the Renault Espace, probably the best of the people carriers. Not that that's much to shout about. That's like saying "Ooh good I've got syphilis, the BEST of the sexually transmitted diseases."
(Mercedes CLs55): "Braking in this car is so brutal, it would be less painful to actually hit the tree you were trying to miss."
"I don't understand bus lanes. Why do poor people have to get to places quicker than I do?"
"I was reading The Mirror the other day and came across a letter from a reader who wrote, 'I was riding my bike to work when this red Ferrari pulled up next to me. Out of the window, Jeremy Clarkson shouted 'Get a car', and drove off.' What I actually said was, 'Get a car you hatchet faced, leaf-eating Nazi."
"Britain's nuclear submarines have been deemed unsafe...probably because they don't have wheel-chair access"
"Much more of a hoot to drive than you might imagine. Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed. I do, and it helps."
"If we are being honest HIV is a pathetic virus, it can only live in the air for 6 seconds and it takes 10 years to do what ebola does to you in 10 days!"
"Racing cars which have been converted for road use never really work. It's like making a hard core adult film, and then editing it so that it can be shown in British hotels. You'd just end up with a sort of half hour close up of some bloke's sweaty face."
"you can't have this car with a diesel, its like saying, I wont go to stringfellows tonight, I'll get my mum to give me a lapdance, she's a woman!"
Tonight, the new Viper, which is the American equivalent of a sports car... In the same way, I guess, that George Bush is the equivalent of a President.
Jeremy said this of the Porsche Cayenne! "Honestly, I have seen more attractive gangrenous wounds than this. It has the sex appeal of a camel with gingivitis."
"Now we get quite a lot of complaints that we don't feature enough affordable cars on the show......so we'll kick off tonight with the cheapest Ferrari of them all!"
On the Lotus Elise: "This car is more fun than the entire French Air Force crashing into a firework factory."
"Now as you can see I lost the battle to have two engines on the back because of three very important reasons. One: weight. This is 600 Lbs and that's the same as having a whole American sitting on the tailgate..."
In the olden days I always got the impression that TVR built a car, put it on sale, and then found out how it handled. Usually when one of their customers wrote to the factory complaining about how dead he was.
"the DB9 has rear seats but no mammal yet created, not even when God was on the LSD trip that gave us the pink flamingo, could fit into them."
Assessing Hammond's crash:
Clarkson: "you can see from the tape that the tyre is starting to come apart. Now why didn't you spot that?!"
Hammond: "I had a lot on: I was doing 288 mph."
Clarkson: "What do you mean you had a lot on? I can be in the office on the phone, doing the paperwork, kids are shouting at me, wife etc, but if a lion walks in, I'm going to notice it!"
"There are footballers wives that would be happy with this quality of stitching... On their face"
"I don't often agree with the RSPCA as I believe it is an animals duty to be on my plate at supper time""I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Greg66 wrote:thelawnet wrote:
<post snipping>
1. "28,567 people were killed or seriously injured last year, a decline of 7% on 2007."
That's a lot of people killed or seriously injured, many of whom, unlike most other causes of death, will be young and in good health.
2. take a look at the developing world, where road deaths kill more children than AIDS or malaria.
3. Bikes don't need to travel at 30mph. Most people just want to get to the shops. 10mph is quite adequate, and not really any slower than driving for 2-3 mile journeys, considering parking
4. I think the point is that a proper bike lane is going to take as much room as a typical urban motor vehicle lane - not because bikes take up as much space, but to provide physical separation from both pedestrians and motor vehicles.
1. According the Guardian article from which this came, 124 children were killed that year. A lot fewer than a lot of other causes of death in children, I'd bet.
BBC article, not Guardian. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8118341.stm2. Source? And is that a direct like-for-like stat? People who die of malaria vs people who die in car collisions?
Already provided above.3. Speak. For. Your. Self. Your notions of what is "adequate" may be fine for you. Don't presume to apply them to others.
I did no such thing. Most people do not want to travel at 30mph, they just want to get from A to B in reasonable time. If you want to, good for you, nobody's stopping you, but that doesn't imply you should oppose measures to encourage utility cycling.4. Suggests that a "proper" bike lane isn't a very efficient use of road space.
Depends what you think the goal should be for road space. If it's to crowd as many heavy lorries, cars, etc., through town centres as possible, sure. If you prefer more pleasant car-free space then you'd likely disagree.0 -
And those are his wittiest remarks?
Marvellous. What a wag.Riding on 5310 -
mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Traffic accidents are the biggest killer of adolescent girls in rich countries, the World Health Organisation said yesterday. In its report, Women and Health - the first global comparison of women's health from birth to death.
The WHO found that in Europe, the US and other high-income countries, road accidents accounted for more than a quarter of all deaths among 10- to 19-year-olds.
Self-inflicted injuries (9.5%), violence (5%) and leukaemia (4.2%) were the next biggest cause of fatalities.
http://news.patient.co.uk/newspaper.asp?ss=10&pc=2923
Kevin Watkins, the author of the FIA report and an academic at Oxford University's global economic governance programme, said the figures should be a "global wake-up call" ahead of a UN summit in New York next week. The summit is to review progress towards eight millennium development goals that focus on issues such as child mortality and hunger.
Watkins said that more lives, of those aged five to 14, were lost on the roads than to "malaria, diarrhoea and HIV/Aids".
Unlike these deadly diseases, road traffic injuries were "conspicuous by their absence from the international development agenda".
By failing to pay attention to road deaths, he said, the worthy ambitions of UN goals, such as universal primary education, were undermined.
"It doesn't take rocket science to work out that primary school kids should not be crossing six-lane highways to get to school … Likewise setting targets for cutting mortality rates among children aged up to five and then turning a blind eye to road deaths, one of the biggest killers of five to 14-year-olds, is not just irrational, it is ethically indefensible."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... or-nations
Hammond's posturing, withdrawing funding for speed cameras, opposing a zero drink drive limit, pandering to Clarkson and his sociopath followers, means Hammond will have blood on his hands. The risk of course is externalised. Sure, many speeding or drunk drivers kill themselves. More commonly they kill someone else, often a child.
See now what you've done here is taken a report which includes the US and the rest of western Europe to prove your statementThe single thing most likely to kill teenage girls in this country?
Their boyfriend's driving:
That's a FAIL
You then start bringing in data from third world countries including India with completely different standards of road infrastructure, car safety standards, traffic laws and driver training. All so you can build to your conclusion that Hammond has blood on his hands.
There is a serious discussion to be had about road safety in this country, I've seen first hand the despair caused when a family lose a child to a drunk driver.
Your frenzy of cut and paste is not a constructive contribution to this debate.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I love that the nurses still give Mybreakfastiseatenusingplasticcutlery access to the internet still. It lightens my day.0
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Children suffer particularly. Road crashes are the single biggest killer of school age children, accounting for "two-thirds of premature child deaths".[7] The UK's child pedestrian casualty rate is worse than many other European countries'.[8]
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... /55704.htm
If the rate of RTC deaths is two thirds the total then it's clearly by far the largest single factor. It may not be that the boyfriends' driving is the largest subset, as the report acknowledged, but that's what constructive debate is, you allow a bit of hyberbole. You have no evidence the statement is untrue, after all!
In fact you claimed it was sh1t from newspapers, demanded evidence, have been given it.
Apology accepted.0 -
mybreakfastconsisted wrote:It may not be that the boyfriends' driving is the largest subset, as the report acknowledged, but that's what constructive debate is, you allow a bit of hyberbole. You have no evidence the statement is untrue, after all!
In fact you claimed it was sh1t from newspapers, demanded evidence, have been given it.
No, making sh1t up to support your arguement through sensationalist claims is still making sh1t up.
There was no evidence to support your claim that the biggest killer of teenage girls was their boyfriends driving.
None
Nada
Zilch
The article you linked to quoted a policeman who heard it somewhere.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:There is a serious discussion to be had about road safety in this country, I've seen first hand the despair caused when a family lose a child to a drunk driver.
Your frenzy of cut and paste is not a constructive contribution to this debate.
Again for the slow learner“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Main cause of death for teenage girls = RTCs, they account for a quarter of all deaths of teenage girls from 10-19 years old, half of all deaths 15-25.
Self-inflicted injuries (9.5%), violence (5%) and leukaemia (4.2%) were the next biggest cause of fatalities.
So, if you allowed that less than half of the deaths occurred when the girls were being driven by their boyfriends the claim's robust, as others have pointed out:
It is pointed out that the biggest killer of teenage girls in North Yorkshire is a teenage boy at the wheel of a car.
http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14951
A 50 minute presentation called 'Silence Kills' based on the disturbing fact that the biggest killer of teenage girls are their boyfriends.
http://www.bigredl.co.uk/Schools.htm
There is no escaping that young drivers are high risk. Boys being the highest risk. The biggest killer of teenaged girls is teenaged boys in their cars. (Fact)0 -
More on "The War":
Former Mayor of London and 2012 Mayoral hopeful Ken Livingstone gave the keynote address at the Roadpeacer conference;
"Fatalities on London's roads are down 60% over the past decade. This is a huge achievement. But things haven't changed everywhere... the likes of Jeremy Clarkson have propagated a cult of speed and there is a backlash against the road safety agenda; road cameras, pedestrian crossings, red lights are all under threat. We have to be prepared to organise against this to protect the past decade's track record. The question, ultimately, is whether you want to live in a human, liveable city or not."
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/
That's a thinly-disguised dig at Hammond, I think.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:TailWindHome wrote:There is a serious discussion to be had about road safety in this country, I've seen first hand the despair caused when a family lose a child to a drunk driver.
Your frenzy of cut and paste is not a constructive contribution to this debate.
Again for the slow learner
Don't waste your pixels TWH - I've tried to reason with this producer of this cut+paste diarrohea before but he is completely and utterly unable to comprehend rational comment, so there is little point.
He also appears to be batsh!t mental, which might not help.0 -
W1 wrote:TailWindHome wrote:TailWindHome wrote:There is a serious discussion to be had about road safety in this country, I've seen first hand the despair caused when a family lose a child to a drunk driver.
Your frenzy of cut and paste is not a constructive contribution to this debate.
Again for the slow learner
Don't waste your pixels TWH - I've tried to reason with this producer of this cut+paste diarrohea before but he is completely and utterly unable to comprehend rational comment, so there is little point.
He also appears to be batsh!t mental, which might not help.
Your sole two contributions to this thread have been to claim I am mentally ill, and now you're complaining at the lack of rational debate?
Guffaw.0 -
mybreakfastconsisted wrote:W1 wrote:TailWindHome wrote:TailWindHome wrote:There is a serious discussion to be had about road safety in this country, I've seen first hand the despair caused when a family lose a child to a drunk driver.
Your frenzy of cut and paste is not a constructive contribution to this debate.
Again for the slow learner
Don't waste your pixels TWH - I've tried to reason with this producer of this cut+paste diarrohea before but he is completely and utterly unable to comprehend rational comment, so there is little point.
He also appears to be batsh!t mental, which might not help.
Your sole two contributions to this thread have been to claim I am mentally ill, and now you're complaining at the lack of rational debate?
Guffaw.
Rational debate would require both parties to possess the ability to debate rationally - not just copy and paste large junks of garbled text, edited to try to make your point and - when you're proven to be wrong - this passed off as acceptable hyperbole.0 -
now you're complaining at the lack of rational debate?
Cutting and pasting stuff that you've found on the internet is not "rational debate".
You seem to unable to grasp that the signal to noise ratio of information on the internet is low. And you seem unable to filter the signal from the noise when you go a-trawling. As far as I can tell, you never bother to go looking for the source documents upon which the press reports you quote are based, and you sure as hell don't read any source documents.
Oh, and hyperbole is a p!ss poor debating technique, used by those who know their points lack substance. In any event, you seem to prefer outright misrepresentation to hyperbole.
Now, did that stray over the "play the ball, not the man" line?
Nah, don't think so.0 -
W1 wrote:[when you're proven to be wrong - this passed off as acceptable hyperbole.
Wrong about what?
A number of sources, including the police, say that the biggest killer of teenage girls is other teenage boys driving cars.
If it's half of all deaths in ages 15-25 then the claim "Most teenage girls are killed by their boyfriends' driving" is sound.
To prove it wrong you'd have to break down the deaths which I've already acknowledged hasn't been done.
I can quite believe it. Statistically driving is one of the most dangerous things that any of us do, men are particularly aggressive drivers, young men even more so. Teenage lads don`t even have the vital experience necessary to avoid trouble and, to finish off, they`re probably showing off to try and impress their girlfriends.
All in all, if you think about it, it`s probably obvious.
Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire, says:
“One fact quoted to me quite often is that the single biggest killer now of teenage girls is their teenage boyfriends driving their cars.”0 -
Fascinating.I can quite believe it. Statistically driving is one of the most dangerous things that any of us do, men are particularly aggressive drivers, young men even more so. Teenage lads don`t even have the vital experience necessary to avoid trouble and, to finish off, they`re probably showing off to try and impress their girlfriends.
This quote, verbatim, appeared first here in 2006 (even including the wonky apostrophes.
Have you been picking this fight for four years?0 -
Greg66 wrote:Fascinating.I can quite believe it. Statistically driving is one of the most dangerous things that any of us do, men are particularly aggressive drivers, young men even more so. Teenage lads don`t even have the vital experience necessary to avoid trouble and, to finish off, they`re probably showing off to try and impress their girlfriends.
This quote, verbatim, appeared first here in 2006 (even including the wonky apostrophes.
Have you been picking this fight for four years?
How on earth did you find that out?0 -
I'll takje your quote and raise you:
Linda Gummery, spokeswoman for missdorothy.com, the charity behind the film, called Watch over Me III, said: “Our films are aimed at helping young people develop strategies for dealing with everyday risks such as knife crime and tough issues like internet paedophiles. But what struck us the most through our research for our latest film was that one of the biggest killers of teenage girls in Britain was their boyfriends’ bad driving.”
Although the charity has not been able to find statistics on the number of fatal car crashes involving teenage boys, during their research they came across many cases. In the film Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire, says: “One fact quoted to me quite often is that the single biggest killer now of teenage girls is their teenage boyfriends driving their cars.”Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
2011 Trek Madone 4.5
2012 Felt F65X
Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
It strikes me that Meredydd Hughes has a lot to answer for.0
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lost_in_thought wrote:
How on earth did you find that out?
Copy the quote and paste it into Google.... 0 -
Greg66 wrote:[, you seem to prefer outright misrepresentation to hyperbole.
Now, did that stray over the "play the ball, not the man" line?
.
What have I misrepresented?
I think Hughes is probably right, nobody's posted anything that contradicts the claim.0
