Beware - Equine and Leisure don't cover Sportives
izza
Posts: 1,561
Had a phone call today with E&L who insured - more accurately, used to insure - my bike.
Having taken part in the Newbury Magnificat event earlier this year I had noted in a form that "I competed..." in the event. I used this wording since it was to me a personal challenge to do 85 miles in a day.
Have now been informed that since I "competed" in the event rather than "took part" plus the results are shown by the event's organisers with times the event is now classed as a race and thus the bike is not covered. This is despite me not having any category licence to race. For supposedly a specialist bike policy underwriter their lack of knowledge of how a Sportive event is operated is IMHO disgusting.
The ramifications I presume, are that I have to get new insurance by this weekend if I am going to compete, sorry, take part in this weekend's ride at Blenheim Sportive. Since I was in a "race" all other Sportive participants are also in races and are not insured either if their policy was with E&L.
1) Please check your policy and be careful with your verbs.
2) I have been naive in my wording am I being way too optimistic in thinking the bike should be insured for a sportive?
Having taken part in the Newbury Magnificat event earlier this year I had noted in a form that "I competed..." in the event. I used this wording since it was to me a personal challenge to do 85 miles in a day.
Have now been informed that since I "competed" in the event rather than "took part" plus the results are shown by the event's organisers with times the event is now classed as a race and thus the bike is not covered. This is despite me not having any category licence to race. For supposedly a specialist bike policy underwriter their lack of knowledge of how a Sportive event is operated is IMHO disgusting.
The ramifications I presume, are that I have to get new insurance by this weekend if I am going to compete, sorry, take part in this weekend's ride at Blenheim Sportive. Since I was in a "race" all other Sportive participants are also in races and are not insured either if their policy was with E&L.
1) Please check your policy and be careful with your verbs.
2) I have been naive in my wording am I being way too optimistic in thinking the bike should be insured for a sportive?
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izza wrote:The ramifications I presume, are that I have to get new insurance by this weekend if I am going to compete, sorry, take part in this weekend's ride at Blenheim Sportive.
Do you need insurance? Not having it won't prevent you from riding will it?0 -
Surely your wording is irrelevant to the insurance cover you are given?
If you are racing & have taken out racing cover then that's fine but if you're not (& Sprortives legally aren't IIRC) & your insurance cover isn't for racing then I failt to see what the issue is? :?0 -
meh ?
Their contract can mean WHATEVER they define it to mean.
A "race" can be riding down a hill backwards if they include this as a definition. Whether it is IIRC is irrelevant!
The issue here is to read the T&C and see what "race" is defined as. I'm pretty sure the examples of times, and published results will be in the wording, hence them quoting it.
Insurance companies are there to NOT PAY OUT if they can. They will all do this, and have people employed to find ways to get out of the obligation legally.
The OP is simply pointing out this pitfall, and asking you not to make asumptions on your cover. No one ever reads T&C's and they always come back to bite you!0 -
Dear Izza,
I have noted your comments with interest. I am the Claims Manager at E&L Insurance and I am always interested in customer’s feedback regarding our services.
After reading your comments I thought it might help you understand our decision if I provided some background on our cycle product.
With our cycle product we offer two types of plan:
• Leisure plan – which does not cover racing or competition at any level.
• Compete plan – Which for a higher premium covers the increased risk presented by racing and competition.
Therefore without your details of cover I must presume that you are on a leisure plan and therefore not covered for any form of racing or competition. Had you taken out the competition plan you would have been covered.
If you would like me to take a closer look at your claim please e-mail me at claim@eandl.co.uk
Yours Sincerely
Philip Bove
Claims Manger
E&L Insurance0 -
claimsmanager wrote:Dear Izza,
Thank you for your response
I have noted your comments with interest. I am the Claims Manager at E&L Insurance and I am always interested in customer’s feedback regarding our services.
After reading your comments I thought it might help you understand our decision if I provided some background on our cycle product.
With our cycle product we offer two types of plan:
• Leisure plan – which does not cover racing or competition at any level.
• Compete plan – Which for a higher premium covers the increased risk presented by racing and competition.
Therefore without your details of cover I must presume that you are on a leisure plan and therefore not covered for any form of racing or competition. Had you taken out the competition plan you would have been covered.
If you would like me to take a closer look at your claim please e-mail me at claim@eandl.co.uk
Yours Sincerely
Philip Bove
Claims Manger
E&L Insurance
I am on the leisure plan but was told the Sportive in question was a race merely because of the (mis)use of a verb I used in relation to my participation.
Under instruction from your staff I have emailed 3 times the email address claims@eandl.co.uk with the UCI guidelines and statements from the organisers confirming it wasn't a race.
I have heard nothing and therefore progress has stalled - I will resubmit the emails to the address you specify.0 -
Bit of confusion here
Cover Options
* Leisure Plan – For bicycles used for leisure and road-based time trials.
* Compete Plan – For bicycles used for racing and competitions.
is quoted from your website...
a sportive is damn sight less competitive than a timetrial.
If the OPs bike was nicked from the sportive hq while he had a brew,pee, or signing on, we are to assume he has no cover?0 -
JGSI wrote:Bit of confusion here
Cover Options
* Leisure Plan – For bicycles used for leisure and road-based time trials.
* Compete Plan – For bicycles used for racing and competitions.
is quoted from your website...
a sportive is damn sight less competitive than a timetrial.
If the OPs bike was nicked from the sportive hq while he had a brew,pee, or signing on, we are to assume he has no cover?
Firstly, can I state I do appreciate that Philip has been good enough to come on here and try and help. If he wants to sort out my personal issue via PM I am willing to do this.
However, based on his colleagues conversation with me if there is any incident (including the one you highlight) at a Sportive and that person states in a claim form they are "competing" in the event rather than "participating" then Philip's colleague's position is that the bike is not insured.0 -
The event he took part in was not a competition, merely an organised ride. The fact that he wrote "competed" is erroneous.
Izza, you should write back and retract the statement you made about "competition", adding that you did not consider the word's legal significance. The event was not listed as a race by any of the recognised governing bodies in the UK, nor would the organiser describe it as a race and importantly any local police force did not have the event categorised as a race, a competition or any similar term. Indeed most sportive organisers go to great pains to ensure their events are not races but merely leisure rides.0 -
STAY AWAY FROM E&L. Don't touch them with a barge pole.0
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Kléber wrote:The event he took part in was not a competition, merely an organised ride. The fact that he wrote "competed" is erroneous.
Izza, you should write back and retract the statement you made about "competition", adding that you did not consider the word's legal significance. The event was not listed as a race by any of the recognised governing bodies in the UK, nor would the organiser describe it as a race and importantly any local police force did not have the event categorised as a race, a competition or any similar term. Indeed most sportive organisers go to great pains to ensure their events are not races but merely leisure rides.
I told the person on the phone that I was willing to do that - got told only option was to appeal and it was too late to change wording on original form.
Whatever happens I am not going to let it drop. I am disappointed in myself for using that wording but remain shocked in the use of a descriptive phrase to ignore the facts by E&L. They now have the UCI guidelines for the event, several emails from me and my home address. Philip can contact me by PM as well.
Whichever route is used, I am looking to resolve things quickly. I will "compete" with E&L for the truth to come out and have them live up to their obligations promptly - does that make this an "insurance race"?0 -
what a load of nonsense - just ride your feckin bike.....0
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like i said
RACE means what they define it as, and you agree the terms.
You can keep pointing out what other people define it as, but it means nothing.
Give it up. If you don not like, cancel. And find a company that includes sportives and get that checked when you "agree" the contract.
Harsh, but true......
(I can hear the Dragon's saying "please.... don't waste you time and money on this ")0 -
But there's no racing or competition. I'm pretty sure you could take this to the small claims court given the organiser, police, governing bodies, the law and izza all think this isn't a race or a competition. A sportive is a "fun ride" and nothing more.0
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I've said it before, these bike specific insurers are a rip off.
They are not bike insurers, they are frame insurers. But you're omly covered if your frame gets damaged only during certain times, places and under certain conditions.
Honestly, just stay away from them.0 -
Guinea, I'd tend to agree as well. If it helps you sleep better, but bike insurance is costly and rarely saves money. You might as well buy lottery tickets.0
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My bike was stripped. I had locked it through frame and back wheel with the front wheel secured with a cable. I have removed the seat.
I lost the groupset, forks and bars.
Never mind thought I. I'm covered. However, E&L rejected my claim saying the bike was not stolen and they con't cover components.
Given that the only thing that was left was a frame and two wheels, I complained asking for the definition of a bike. Is a frame any more a bike than a handlebar? Surely a bike is the sum of its parts? I certainly didn't have anything ridable left. On receipt of my appeal they relented and paid up. After that they changed their terms and conditions so now unless your frame goes you're screwed.0 -
Wow, so a bike is just the frame. I wonder how far I'd go with just a frame up the Tourmalet. Or to the shops.
I have often thought about insurance, but on my 11 year old pride and joy De Rosa, I just let it be and took my chances. Of course I hardly let it out of my sight now, but when I was commuting on it, I often left it chained against the fence and thought nothing of it. I wonder how much I saved in 11 years of not insuring it, probably enough for a new De Rosa. Not gonna happen though, just love the dear thing to much!
Lawyer, insurers etc, just there to take your money, IMHO
Just to add, it would cost me about £76 a year to insure my bike, £76 X 11 = £836 for leisure or about £110 a year for competing. That would be £1210. Oh and as for what leisure and competing means:
•Leisure Plan – For bicycles used for leisure and road-based time trials.
•Compete Plan – For bicycles used for racing and competitions
So a road based time trail is leisure !!0 -
RACE means what they define it as, and you agree the terms.
+1. Just take your insurance somewhere else if you don't like their terms.0 -
Where is their defintion of a race? If the term is not defined by the insurers then you don't have to take what they say, you can ask reasonable questions as to what constitutes a race and what doesn't.0
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Scrumple wrote:like i said
RACE means what they define it as, and you agree the terms.
You can keep pointing out what other people define it as, but it means nothing.
Give it up. If you don not like, cancel. And find a company that includes sportives and get that checked when you "agree" the contract.
Harsh, but true......
(I can hear the Dragon's saying "please.... don't waste you time and money on this ")
Can only recommend that you practice what you preach and read this thread. My umbridge with E&L was that they decided that I was in a race, based upon my descriptive verb and not based upon agreed terms in the policy.
Philip Bove (Claimsmanager) has looked into my case and very promptly E&L representatives have agreed that there was an incorrect treatment of my claim.
To this end, a resolution is being discussed via telephone and the matter should be closed within the next few days. I would like to take the opportunity to thank Philip for his action and confirm that E&L do cover sportives and that my treatment appears to be erroneous misinterpretation by one or two of his colleagues. Thankfully, E&L do have an appeal procedure in case you feel wronged
To those Dragons that don't waste their time on pursuing errors..........their loss not mine!!0 -
Well done and good news.
It wasn't a race and they hadn't defined as one. Told you so
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