New Dragon Ride route

ketsbaia

Anyone seen the new route?

Upped the distance to 135 miles and include a 13.5 mile climb of the Bwlch from Port Talbot. Also a bit of coastal riding down at Porthcawl.

Looks good.

Linky.

ugo.santalucia

ketsbaia wrote:

Anyone seen the new route?

Upped the distance to 135 miles and include a 13.5 mile climb of the Bwlch from Port Talbot. Also a bit of coastal riding down at Porthcawl.

Looks good.

Linky.

The Tourmalet is only 12 miles...
What's the average gradient of Bwlch from Port Talbot, 0.5%? It's one of the most over rated climbs in the country. I remember it being fairly easy... 20 minutes and it's done, never steep... don't know why it's still ised as a scaremonger

bcss

ugo.santalucia wrote:

ketsbaia wrote:

Anyone seen the new route?

Upped the distance to 135 miles and include a 13.5 mile climb of the Bwlch from Port Talbot. Also a bit of coastal riding down at Porthcawl.

Looks good.

Linky.

The Tourmalet is only 12 miles...
What's the average gradient of Bwlch from Port Talbot, 0.5%? It's one of the most over rated climbs in the country. I remember it being fairly easy... 20 minutes and it's done, never steep... don't know why it's still ised as a scaremonger

don't want to be a smart a** but how can you do 13.5miles in 20min?

ketsbaia

I'm guessing he means the actual climb bit from the cattle grid to the top.

I did it in 15 minutes this year.

It's not the toughest climb in the world, but coming after 100 odd miles it's not exactly flat either.

twotyred

Not exactly inspiring or imaginative route. Inclusion of scenic Port Talbot plus having to cycle 14 km of the route twice

on-yer-bike

the belch coming from the Neath side is steeper than from the other direction, isnt it?

greeny12

No Brecon Beacons National Park at all on the route next year then.

Mind you, not that it bothers me as I'm not doing it anyway!!

RichN95.

While I'm all for sportives changing their routes, I'm not sure this is a good move by the Dragons (I accept it may have been forced on them)

Some of the coastal route is very nice, as shown in the picture, but Port Talbot (at night) always reminds me of the beginning of Blade Runner.

The bad changes are with the climbs. The Medio Fondo only has one climb. I did the Medio this year and we did the same three big climbs as the Gran guys did. And it was three different climbs. This year, the Bwlch is done the same way twice (I think the other way up the Bwlch is the nicest climb).

Mix it up by all means, but I'm not sure this will be popular.

ugo.santalucia

The DR is more of a "wanna be seen there" than anything. People go for the crowd, the route is irrelevant, as it wasn't a good (or hard) route before, so it won't matter if it doesn't go through (the worst part of) the Beacons any longer.

It's been cunningly marketed as a great event to prepare for things like the Etape or the Marmotte and in that it has succeded, even without having the fear factor of a FWC or the "history" of a Polka Dot Challenge (in terms of the calssic climbs in British Cycling).

Most entrants will realise afterwards that actually Bwlch and Rhigos have nothing to do with the French Alps (or Pyrenees), neither the length nor the gradients

greeny12

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The DR is more of a "wanna be seen there" than anything. People go for the crowd, the route is irrelevant, as it wasn't a good (or hard) route before, so it won't matter if it doesn't go through (the worst part of) the Beacons any longer.

It's been cunningly marketed as a great event to prepare for things like the Etape or the Marmotte and in that it has succeded, even without having the fear factor of a FWC or the "history" of a Polka Dot Challenge (in terms of the calssic climbs in British Cycling).

Most entrants will realise afterwards that actually Bwlch and Rhigos have nothing to do with the French Alps (or Pyrenees), neither the length nor the gradients

All fair points, but for a 'slower' cyclist like me the sheer numbers at the DR made it possible to find several groups to hook onto, something which simply doesn't happen in other smaller sportives (where the only groups are formed by the top guys going for gold). As a result my only silver standard performance of the year came in Wales.

Totally agree on the Alpine climb comparison (or lack of it) though!!

Casbar

ketsbaia wrote:

Anyone seen the new route?

Upped the distance to 135 miles and include a 13.5 mile climb of the Bwlch from Port Talbot. Also a bit of coastal riding down at Porthcawl.

Looks good.

Linky.

The email I got discribes the Grand Fondo as being 200 km long ...that is only 125 miles

bendertherobot

It's actually a pretty good route now. It's not Port Talbot per se. You turn off just after Margam.

What I don't like is the doing the same part twice.

One thing though, the Vale Council had better resurface the section through Ogmore cos it's the most vibration causing surface you are ever likely to ride on.

twotyred

Just in case I decide not to partake next year are there any good alternatives to the Dragon with some nice big hills around that time of year?

ugo.santalucia

twotyred wrote:

Just in case I decide not to partake next year are there any good alternatives to the Dragon with some nice big hills around that time of year?

The Chiltern 100 is the same weekend, I think. None of the climbs per se is a killer, they're all sharp half a miler or so and 10-15% steep... but there are 21 of them... :shock:

The Polkadot is the same weekend as well... classic climbs of Derbyshire

ketsbaia

Yah boo sucks to the lot of you. I think the route is a good one, apart from doing the Bwlch the same way twice, of course. That's a bit clumsy. I'd have preferred to do the Bwlch in reverse, tbh, as the descent from the first climb of it (last year) looked like it might be interesting to do. Same with Rhigos. Felt like it'd be more challenging the other way.

But it was excellent Marmotte training nonetheless. Not because it has alpine passes, because it doesn't (it's in fcuking Wales, innit), but because there's distance and enough uphill tough stuff to keep you interested and honest.

The double header of Dragon and Magnificat gave me the hard miles I needed to put in before the Marmotte. On it's own, the Dragon won't prepare you for the Etape or Marmotte, but it'll give you a bloody good steer on whether you're ready for them or not.

ketsbaia

bendertherobot wrote:

One thing though, the Vale Council had better resurface the section through Ogmore cos it's the most vibration causing surface you are ever likely to ride on.

I'll see your Ogmore Valley and raise you most of the Magnificat course this year. Unbearable rough stuff that nearly put me off cycling for good. :shock:

ynyswen24

The Medio Fondo looks much less appealing, while the overall climbing will be about the same you'll only get the one big climb and then a load of smaller climbs on the run down to the coast. On the long route I think the climb from Ystradgynlais will take a lot of people by surprise but I don't know if it will compensate for losing Bwlch 1 and the Brecon Beacons loop.
The one thing it will do is make the organisation a lot easier, it'll be a much easier course to marshall and riders will have a lot more access to shops/garages etc for feeding themselves if feed stop problems recur as they did for a lot of riders this year.
I'm not sure but I've got a feeling that it means the organisers will have fewer local authorities and police forces to liase with which will cut their costs and logistical problems. All in all the changes seem to be in order to ease logistics for Lou Lusardi and his team rather than challenging the riders.
Even though I only live 40 miles west of Bridgend I don't know whether I'll be online when the entries open...

ynyswen24

The Medio Fondo looks much less appealing, while the overall climbing will be about the same you'll only get the one big climb and then a load of smaller climbs on the run down to the coast. On the long route I think the climb from Ystradgynlais will take a lot of people by surprise but I don't know if it will compensate for losing Bwlch 1 and the Brecon Beacons loop.
The one thing it will do is make the organisation a lot easier, it'll be a much easier course to marshall and riders will have a lot more access to shops/garages etc for feeding themselves if feed stop problems recur as they did for a lot of riders this year.
I'm not sure but I've got a feeling that it means the organisers will have fewer local authorities and police forces to liase with which will cut their costs and logistical problems. All in all the changes seem to be in order to ease logistics for Lou Lusardi and his team rather than challenging the riders.
Even though I only live 40 miles west of Bridgend I don't know whether I'll be online when the entries open...

oldwelshman

I dont understand some of the points trying to compare the bwlch and rhigos with the alps.No one claims they are the same but the dragon is good prep for foreign sportives, and as for saying the gradients are not the same I am afraid that is rubbish. The grades are similar just the climbs are shorter and for those who claim the climbs are not hard, that is also rubbish becuase it depoends who you are and how you climb. For a novice they can be hard, and for those of you who are decent riders and cliam they are not hard, I suggest you try racing up them with elite riders then come back and say they are not hard !!
You all have a choice to ride or not simple, up to you, I chose not to for several reasons but obviously many do as they enjoy it.

friso

Shame that a few riders should scoff at how easy or how quickly they can ride up the climbs like the Bwlch

Talk to any pro rider and they will tell you that all riders hurt the same whether they are Contador, Shleck, Armstrong or Joe Blogs, its the only how quickly they go that's different

I suggest that if sportives are to easy try riding a bit faster or even better still turn pro

Yes, i am a slower rider and i wish i could boast about the Bwlch being over hyped and how i rode Hardnott on the big ring but i can't

Prehaps i am just jelous

However i will be back at the Dragon in 2011 racing my 2010 time, no one else

For an alternitive to the Dragon, the Norwich 100 (my local ride) is on the same day, covering quite a bit of the TOB Norfolk route from this years TOB. Be careful of the legandary Norfolk mountain range and the long climb from Sherringham to Norwich, 0.5% for 25 miles, Ouch!

rusty nuts

I hear roumours that they are looking to use Varteg Hill out of Ystradgynlais - god help us if thats the case as its one steep little b@$+@+d!

ynyswen24

rusty nuts wrote:

I hear roumours that they are looking to use Varteg Hill out of Ystradgynlais - god help us if thats the case as its one steep little b@$+@+d!

I believe you are correct

calvjones

twotyred wrote:

Just in case I decide not to partake next year are there any good alternatives to the Dragon with some nice big hills around that time of year?

Tour of Pembrokeshire is usually within a week or two; the Preselli hills are fairly gnarly and it's very pretty.

wicked

oldwelshman wrote:

I dont understand some of the points trying to compare the bwlch and rhigos with the alps.No one claims they are the same but the dragon is good prep for foreign sportives, and as for saying the gradients are not the same I am afraid that is rubbish. The grades are similar just the climbs are shorter and for those who claim the climbs are not hard, that is also rubbish becuase it depoends who you are and how you climb. For a novice they can be hard, and for those of you who are decent riders and cliam they are not hard, I suggest you try racing up them with elite riders then come back and say they are not hard !!
You all have a choice to ride or not simple, up to you, I chose not to for several reasons but obviously many do as they enjoy it.

The voice of reason. +1

ugo.santalucia

oldwelshman wrote:

I dont understand some of the points trying to compare the bwlch and rhigos with the alps.No one claims they are the same but the dragon is good prep for foreign sportives, and as for saying the gradients are not the same I am afraid that is rubbish. The grades are similar just the climbs are shorter and for those who claim the climbs are not hard, that is also rubbish becuase it depoends who you are and how you climb. For a novice they can be hard, and for those of you who are decent riders and cliam they are not hard, I suggest you try racing up them with elite riders then come back and say they are not hard !!
You all have a choice to ride or not simple, up to you, I chose not to for several reasons but obviously many do as they enjoy it.

Well, even a 10 miles flat section can be hard, if I push at 25 mph all the way... that doesn't mean that Bwlch is a hard climb. If I takle it at 12 mph I will soon run out of steam... but why should I?
My point about the DR is that in a beautiful area, the organiser has chosen a route (the old one) which goes through the worst bits of south Wales and the BB.
Having been in the Brecons for a long weekend in May, I remember the shear beauty of the Gospel Pass, with its almost alpine stunning view towards the top (Hay-on-Wye side). Somehow it did recall a small version of my beloved Petit St. Bernard Pass
Having done the Epic, I remember the climb towards the Elan Valley, just out of Rhyader, with its Alpine gradients (Alpine climbs have 8-9% gradients, not 5-6%) and the stunning river rumbling on the left.
The DR has little to offer... but then again, maybe I am more of an Audax person and long queues, crap food stations, big and busy roads and thousands of people are not my cup of tea

ksherratt

oldwelshman wrote:

I dont understand some of the points trying to compare the bwlch and rhigos with the alps.No one claims they are the same but the dragon is good prep for foreign sportives, and as for saying the gradients are not the same I am afraid that is rubbish. The grades are similar just the climbs are shorter and for those who claim the climbs are not hard, that is also rubbish becuase it depoends who you are and how you climb. For a novice they can be hard, and for those of you who are decent riders and cliam they are not hard, I suggest you try racing up them with elite riders then come back and say they are not hard !!
You all have a choice to ride or not simple, up to you, I chose not to for several reasons but obviously many do as they enjoy it.

Voice of reason +2.

I used to get wound up by the views “oh it’s really easy, don’t know what the fuss is about, I did the climb in ……..” etc,

Now I just tut and shake my head. A sportive is a personal challenge – if it’s not challenging for you, choose something that is.

vorsprung

ugo.santalucia wrote:

.. but then again, maybe I am more of an Audax person and long queues, crap food stations, big and busy roads and thousands of people are not my cup of tea

In that case my Avalon Sunrise 400km is that weekend

bennyhana22

ketsbaia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

One thing though, the Vale Council had better resurface the section through Ogmore cos it's the most vibration causing surface you are ever likely to ride on.

I'll see your Ogmore Valley and raise you most of the Magnificat course this year. Unbearable rough stuff that nearly put me off cycling for good. :shock:

I've never been to Ogmore...but despite that I'd be astonished if its surface was more vibration-causing than riding the Paris-Roubaix sportive which I DID do in June. That is vibtration beyond anything that I could possibly have imagined beforehand and I am still getting some occasional carpal tunnel symptoms after 4 months! PR is my favourite bike race and riding it probably my most pleasing biking achievement, but I'll NEVER ride on cobbles like that again as it's just not good for you!

Ben

ugo.santalucia

bennyhana22 wrote:

ketsbaia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

One thing though, the Vale Council had better resurface the section through Ogmore cos it's the most vibration causing surface you are ever likely to ride on.

I'll see your Ogmore Valley and raise you most of the Magnificat course this year. Unbearable rough stuff that nearly put me off cycling for good. :shock:

I've never been to Ogmore...but despite that I'd be astonished if its surface was more vibration-causing than riding the Paris-Roubaix sportive which I DID do in June. That is vibtration beyond anything that I could possibly have imagined beforehand and I am still getting some occasional carpal tunnel symptoms after 4 months! PR is my favourite bike race and riding it probably my most pleasing biking achievement, but I'll NEVER ride on cobbles like that again as it's just not good for you!

Ben

My fingers still hurt a bit too, but it's getting a lot better... Mons En Pevele was horrendous... 3Km of scattered stones and mud