Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
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Do we actually know how tiny the quantity in his body was? I don't get the impression it is as small as the amount of cocaine we all must have in our bodies from time to time through exposure to contaminated notes.
It was a long way below the minimum amount a lab had to be able to detect in order to be a certified lab, but for all I know it was a LOT more than a normal person would have in their body.
Strict liability is the only fair way to treat the issue of disqualification. The drug is considered performance enhancing. So if you had it in your body, you can't validly win. A bit like unknowingly having a bike below 6.8kg - you should be DQ'ed from the race. Doesn't matter whether you knew or not, or how it happened.0 -
the thing is maybe the amount was low because he had taken loads during the off season and then had a blood transfusion a few weeks later when there was still a trace amount left and injected that during the tour0
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I've just started to shape the raglan.0
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I'm not saying he is right, I'm not saying I even fully understand what's happening, but as I have posted before, fans hold bottles of drink for all riders. Is there a possibility that he consumed the banned substance in this manner?
I'm not into conspiracy theories and someone spiking something, but surely this could be a real possibility. Again if this is the case, I don't necessarily think the spectator would have done this on purpose, but is it possible that if they provided an energy drink that it just contained the banned substance.
PS Sorry if this has been covered before in thris thread but I haven't read all 100+ pages0 -
Teach wrote:I'm not saying he is right, I'm not saying I even fully understand what's happening, but as I have posted before, fans hold bottles of drink for all riders. Is there a possibility that he consumed the banned substance in this manner?
I'm not into conspiracy theories and someone spiking something, but surely this could be a real possibility. Again if this is the case, I don't necessarily think the spectator would have done this on purpose, but is it possible that if they provided an energy drink that it just contained the banned substance.
PS Sorry if this has been covered before in thris thread but I haven't read all 100+ pages
Riders know this already which is why they usually only pour water over themselves when they pick it up from the side of the road0 -
No, Teach, because not even being in a plastic bottle would explain the presence of the plasticisers.
I now, however, can't get an image out of my head of a drunken Basque and a Bovril bidon.0 -
Teach wrote:I'm not saying he is right, I'm not saying I even fully understand what's happening, but as I have posted before, fans hold bottles of drink for all riders. Is there a possibility that he consumed the banned substance in this manner?
It is possible, but it's also possible that you will the lottery tomorrow.
Similarly, it is possible that Contador ate dodgy beef, but it is also possible that Millwall will win the FA Cup this year.
We have to see what is likely, not what is possible.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Teach wrote:I'm not saying he is right, I'm not saying I even fully understand what's happening, but as I have posted before, fans hold bottles of drink for all riders. Is there a possibility that he consumed the banned substance in this manner?
It is possible, but it's also possible that you will the lottery tomorrow.
Similarly, it is possible that Contador ate dodgy beef, but it is also possible that Millwall will win the FA Cup this year.
We have to see what is likely, not what is possible.
No it's not. They are already out of it!0 -
Pokerface wrote:No it's not. They are already out of it!
You're right. Here's what happened. I wanted a lowly team that was still in the Cup and looked on the BBC website. Knowing that this is an FA Cup weekend, I saw Millwall 2 Barnsley 0 and picked them. Turns out it was a league game.
Let's say Nottingham Forest then. I know they're still in.
Doh!Twitter: @RichN950 -
F%$k them all! Why on earth are people raging about this. The twat's guilty as charged and I hope they throw the book at him. Cycling needs cleaning up properly. Any idiot found with anything illegal in his/her system should be banned for life. In this day and age of organic and free range food no one has any excuses, especially millionaire athletes. What professional sports person needs anything weird apart from good food and drink? The only chronic condition needing banned medication I can think of is asthma and there are ways to keep that under control by keeping up with WADA's recommendations. Tossers the lot of them, the dopers and cheaters. We keep them in the style by which they are accustomed by buying the brands that sponsor them, watching the channels that pay the tours, travel to watch them and they dump on us fro the top of the Huez. Sod 'em all!0
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And the stuff that I thought was illegal for asthma isn't even illegal so that makes Contador even more of a twat. And I'm not raging! :evil: Much
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if we're learnt anything from this sh1tstorm - ratify the plasticizers test NOW, even if contador has a 1yr layoff at least he'll have a year sat on his backside watching the racing getting annoyed"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
Any post that begins with F%$k them all and ends with Sod 'em all get's my attention. Have to agree with a lot of what you say, they are well aware of the pitfalls, so any Professional who falls down has to face the consequences. Or what's the point of having 'rules'? Might as well open the floodgates and I will see you on the tour next year!!bomberharris72 wrote:F%$k them all! Why on earth are people raging about this. The fool's guilty as charged and I hope they throw the book at him. Cycling needs cleaning up properly. Any idiot found with anything illegal in his/her system should be banned for life. In this day and age of organic and free range food no one has any excuses, especially millionaire athletes. What professional sports person needs anything weird apart from good food and drink? The only chronic condition needing banned medication I can think of is asthma and there are ways to keep that under control by keeping up with WADA's recommendations. Tossers the lot of them, the dopers and cheaters. We keep them in the style by which they are accustomed by buying the brands that sponsor them, watching the channels that pay the tours, travel to watch them and they dump on us fro the top of the Huez. Sod 'em all!0 -
bomberharris72 wrote:F%$k them all! Why on earth are people raging about this. The fool's guilty as charged and I hope they throw the book at him. Cycling needs cleaning up properly. Any idiot found with anything illegal in his/her system should be banned for life. In this day and age of organic and free range food no one has any excuses, especially millionaire athletes. What professional sports person needs anything weird apart from good food and drink? The only chronic condition needing banned medication I can think of is asthma and there are ways to keep that under control by keeping up with WADA's recommendations. Tossers the lot of them, the dopers and cheaters. We keep them in the style by which they are accustomed by buying the brands that sponsor them, watching the channels that pay the tours, travel to watch them and they dump on us fro the top of the Huez. Sod 'em all!
Reading your post I had to check the web address bar in my browser just to make sure I was still on BR as I thought I was reading the Daily Mail
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The point is Contador contends he had eaten "good food and drink" as you put it, just that the "good" beef he had eaten was too good containing traces of clenbuterol. The concentration of this substance in his body was so low, many times below the thresh hold of other labs which test for this substance. The only conclusion you can draw is that Contador's explanation might be true or it might not be, therefore there is UNCERTAINTY but you cannot say is that he deliberately doped. So in this respect I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt or a warning that if any further such infringement should occur it will result in a ban for what ever period is considered appropriate at the time. Liken this occasion to receiving a yellow card as opposed to a red one and suspension. The system by which his samples have been analysed and the competing cycling bodies at national and international level playing politics both in public and no doubt behind the scenes, is not only frustrating for Contador and other riders but all us spectators of the sport of cycling. I think they have to be careful not to make an example of him just for the sake of it on the flimsiest of evidence. If the results of his samples are genuinely significant then by all means ban him from professional cycling but not like this. They seem to be saying "Oh, you might have doped, we're not actually sure, but we suspect you have, so we will ban you for just one year instead of two". How does this sound? If you are innocent then you are going to contest it, aren't you?
Btw I am not a fan of Contador.Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
Think how stupid the average person is.......
half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.0 -
dilemna wrote:bomberharris72 wrote:F%$k them all! Why on earth are people raging about this. The fool's guilty as charged and I hope they throw the book at him. Cycling needs cleaning up properly. Any idiot found with anything illegal in his/her system should be banned for life. In this day and age of organic and free range food no one has any excuses, especially millionaire athletes. What professional sports person needs anything weird apart from good food and drink? The only chronic condition needing banned medication I can think of is asthma and there are ways to keep that under control by keeping up with WADA's recommendations. Tossers the lot of them, the dopers and cheaters. We keep them in the style by which they are accustomed by buying the brands that sponsor them, watching the channels that pay the tours, travel to watch them and they dump on us fro the top of the Huez. Sod 'em all!
Reading your post I had to check the web address bar in my browser just to make sure I was still on BR as I thought I was reading the Daily Mail .
The point is Contador contends he had eaten "good food and drink" as you put it, just that the "good" beef he had eaten was too good containing traces of clenbuterol. The concentration of this substance in his body was so low, many times below the thresh hold of other labs which test for this substance. The only conclusion you can draw is that Contador's explanation might be true or it might not be, therefore there is UNCERTAINTY but you cannot say is that he deliberately doped. So in this respect I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt or a warning that if any further such infringement should occur it will result in a ban for what ever period is considered appropriate at the time. Liken this occasion to receiving a yellow card as opposed to a red one and suspension. The system by which his samples have been analysed and the competing cycling bodies at national and international level playing politics both in public and no doubt behind the scenes, is not only frustrating for Contador and other riders but all us spectators of the sport of cycling. I think they have to be careful not to make an example of him just for the sake of it on the flimsiest of evidence. If the results of his samples are genuinely significant then by all means ban him from professional cycling but not like this. They seem to be saying "Oh, you might have doped, we're not actually sure, but we suspect you have, so we will ban you for just one year instead of two". How does this sound? If you are innocent then you are going to contest it, aren't you?
Btw I am not a fan of Contador.
No he should not be given the benefit of the doubt. Clenbuterol was in his body during the TdF therefore this could have given him an unfair advantage.Whether he intended to dope or note is immaterial really. He has doped and should be stripped of his winner's jersey. Also, why has no one else suffered the same fate as him and why has he not been able to prove that the meat he ate was doped? Remember the burden of proof lies with him to prove the meat was contaminated. He can't just say it, he has to show it and that's what he'll struggle with.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
hahahhaha. Not at all! Just coincidence.
PS. The test is close to being ratified though: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7038/ ... inked.aspx0 -
Tusher wrote:I've just started to shape the raglan.
I prefer straight sleeves myself.
What colour is it? --
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
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dilemna wrote:The point is Contador contends he had eaten "good food and drink" as you put it, just that the "good" beef he had eaten was too good containing traces of clenbuterol. The concentration of this substance in his body was so low, many times below the thresh hold of other labs which test for this substance. The only conclusion you can draw is that Contador's explanation might be true or it might not be, therefore there is UNCERTAINTY but you cannot say is that he deliberately doped. So in this respect I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt or a warning that if any further such infringement should occur it will result in a ban for what ever period is considered appropriate at the time.
Have there been any tests for the presence of Clenbuterol in the general non cycling population?
If Contador's explanation/excuse is true then it would suggest that a random sample of the general population would also show the presence of Clenbuterol at these minute levels.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Have there been any tests for the presence of Clenbuterol in the general non cycling population?
If Contador's explanation/excuse is true then it would suggest that a random sample of the general population would also show the presence of Clenbuterol at these minute levels.
The problem is that for the "general population", the presence of clenbuterol is not a career- threatening offence and they are less likely to be careful in terms of monitoring what they eat. In fact, it you sampled the population in the right areas and times, you'd find levels of all sorts of materials - alcohol, medications and recreational pharmaceuticals at levels that would land sportspeople in trouble.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
I'm not that interested in samples of the general population. But, I would like to know the results other samples from the TDF peloton, tested by the Cologne lab. One rider caught, with careful sensitive testing, doesn't mean everyone else in the bunch is fine.0
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"Today is a sad day, truly sad for me. It’s a day in which I feel greatly disappointed and greatly deceived. As you know, two days ago I received a draft resolution for a one-year sanction from the Competition Committee.
“The way things have been until now has been shameful, the way things that should’ve been communicated officially have been leaked to the press. All this has shown me how down-and-out and how full of deficiencies this sport that I love is, the sport that I’ve given my life to and in which I’ve suffered so much to get where I am. And everything so that now, based on an obsolete rule, they want to throw it all in the dirt, so that I lose everything I’ve achieved.
"Throughout my life I’ve undergone more than 500 controls, many of them by surprise, at home, during family meals, birthdays… I’ve had to leave in the middle of movies, I’ve had to leave my friends in restaurants, but it was all because I believed in the anti-doping system. Not anymore. I do not believe in the system now.
"I know my responsibility, I know that I’m a point of reference for a lot of people, and I know what I expose myself to, that’s why I’ve never doped. I can say this loud and clear, with my head held high.
"I consider myself an example of what it is to be clean, and so I find it hard to watch the way I’m slandered every day, the way terrible things are said about me, when the only mistake I made was to eat meat without stopping to analyze it first to see if it had clenbuterol in it. Every time I go to a restaurant, will I have to take a piece of meat with me in order to check for clenbuterol?
"The people in charge of the anti-doping organizations have to reconsider this case. We’re facing a completely outdated rule, which all scientists know is not up-to-date with the current anti-doping system, which was made years ago when they couldn’t detect minimum quantities which in no way affect your performance, which are physically impossible to take voluntarily, and which in my case have in no way helped me achieve victory.
"As long as this rule remains out of date with the advances of 2011, cases of false positives will continue to occur. This rule will have to be changed; I don’t know when—whether it will be months or years from now. But meanwhile, what about me, and the people who are in a situation similar to mine? As long as this change remains unaccomplished, honest and fair sport will never be practiced, as I have always practiced it.
"When I received the one-year proposed sanction, I immediately told Bjarne Riis, and told him that I wanted to go home to be with my family and friends. But I couldn’t allow myself to forget that it’s only a draft resolution and that in these 10 days that I’ve got, I’m going to work as hard as I can with my lawyers so that justice is done.
"I’m enormously grateful to Bjarne and to my sponsors for their confidence and their unconditional support—it’s unimaginable. As leader of the team, I think that making the decision to leave is best, so that all the riders keep working as normal.
"I’m tremendously unhappy with the Competition Committee’s proposal. What’s happened during these last few months is beyond belief, and a disgrace. It’s become a soap opera and a political lawsuit with all the leaks, the baseless and malicious comments of WADA and the UCI, which I believe have played a key role in this proposed resolution.
"In the meantime, I’ve wanted to keep working, focusing on my own business, but I’ve also been on the point of exploding many times because of things that were being said. I could hardly endure it, but out of respect for the process I’ve preferred to keep some distance so that the Competition Committee can work without pressure from me, even though all that has come to nothing.
"I disagree with this proposal and I’m going to work to change it, but if that’s not how it works out, I’ll appeal wherever necessary in order to defend my innocence until the end.”Contador is the Greatest0 -
andrewjoseph wrote:Tusher wrote:I've just started to shape the raglan.
I prefer straight sleeves myself.
What colour is it?
Aran coloured, fawn with flecks of brown from
http://www.knitandsew.co.uk/Hayfield_Fa ... ts_342.htm
A cardigan for my father-in-law.
And just the sort of garment I imagine the forumites here wear as they sit at their computers tapping away. :-)0 -
If Contador is determined to prove his innocence, why doesn't he fund a study of, say, students and pensioners, chosen at random from Spain/Europe. All the study would have to do woudl be to exclude vegetarians. Pay the doners 1 euro for their urine sample and have them analysed by the Cologne lab (which would cost a lot). Someone may even get their PhD out of it. See what percentage of the population tests positive.
Er, or maybe he's not that confident.0 -
And to the proponents of a 2 year ban: educate yourself in the cases involving at least Clenbuterol
Abdoujaparov, 1997, Clen + another: 1 YEAR BAN
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/ ... an27a.html
Vandenbroucke, 2002, Clen + others: 6 MONTH BAN OVERTUNRED BY CAS TO NO BAN
http://velonews.competitor.com/2002/06/ ... nsion_2484
Luis Coehlo, 2006, Clen + others: 1 YEAR BAN
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getOb ... d=MzQ2Nzc&
Fuyu, 2010, Clen: 2 YEAR BAN (TENTATIVE and SUSPECT, see article below):
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_17181966? ... ck_check=1
Colo, 2010, Clen: 1 YEAR BAN
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5957/ ... itive.aspx
Your hatred of Contador surpasses rationality, basis in fact, common sense and precendents.Contador is the Greatest0 -
FF - 2 of those positives were in countries where clen in the food system is well known. VBD was overturned on a technicality.
If you're going to argue a position, at least make sure it makes some kind of sense.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
