orange 5 rp23 help

larrythelathe
larrythelathe Posts: 143
edited September 2010 in MTB workshop & tech
hope you guys can help does anyone else run there rebound damping on max?
is there anything i can do to get more rebound damping (can anyone tune them)

any help would be great
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Comments

  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    TFtuned
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    What is your actual problem. Are you saying that the rebound damping adjustment is knackered, or that you actually want your shock to be as slow as treacle?
  • shm_uk
    shm_uk Posts: 683
    If the Rebound circuit is working properly then I can't believe you need more damping than the max setting provides :shock:

    Sounds more like the shock needs servicing.


    However, if you really do want the standard factory damping altered, TF Tuned can sort that out.
  • larrythelathe
    larrythelathe Posts: 143
    is it a can service to sort ?
    is that were the damping oil is ?
  • shm_uk
    shm_uk Posts: 683
    Are you sure the rebound dial is getting the full range of clockwise movement? There should be 8-10 clicks from fully open to fully closed.


    I don't think servicing the air can will rectify/affect the rebound characteristics.

    If the shock is still extending fairly quickly with the rebound fully closed then I'd suggest the unit needs a full service.
  • larrythelathe
    larrythelathe Posts: 143
    its slowish at the minute but i still feel the back end kicking i would like to damp this out

    i will give tf a call and she what the cost is :shock:
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    larrythelathe wrote:
    its slowish at the minute but i still feel the back end kicking i would like to damp this out

    i will give tf a call and she what the cost is :shock:
    Right, ok. If the back end is slow, but you feel it kicking, then chances are there's something else in the setup that either needs chaning, or you need to get used to.
    A lot of new full suss riders tend to have their shocks set up too stiff, or too slow.
    There's a lot of personaly taste in it all, but ideally, you want the shocks to react fairly quickly.
    There's a link in the tech section to a fox tuning website, which has videos on how to set up your shocks and forks to get the most out of them. It's worth checking out before splurging money on something that may be taking you down the wrong road, so to speak.
  • larrythelathe
    larrythelathe Posts: 143
    i'll stick with it for a while and see what i think in a few weeks

    i am used to riding full sus big bike with coils or a hard tail maybe i am trying to make the air shock feel like a coil!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    The damping will not differ between a coil and an air shock ideally.
  • doggegg
    doggegg Posts: 61
    You're not alone fella, been running my RP23 on max rebound since day 1 and honking about it. Not on an Orange admittedly, but it's too fast. Not all of us are 18 stone :wink:

    TF is the solution
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    you really are limiting the shock's capabilities by slowing the rebound that much though, mind.
  • cavegiant
    cavegiant Posts: 1,546
    How much sag are you running?

    Is the shock new?

    is the damping consistent through the whole stroke, or does it snap up near the end?


    re the 18 remark, heavier riders tend to prefer less damping. I run my rebound circuits full open and use lighter oil.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?
  • Locotuning
    Locotuning Posts: 69
    Hi have a look at my setup guide:

    http://locotuning.co.uk/tech-info.html

    if working through this doesn't work give me a call at the workshop, I service and tune these too.

    They should be serviced fully i.e fresh oil, nitrogen and all seals in the damper and air can every 12 to 18 months to keep them working well.

    Hope this helps :wink:
    Suspension servicing, tuning, parts, setup and race support
    Locotuning.co.uk
  • toasty
    toasty Posts: 2,598
    If you're at the heavier end of the pressure limit, you'll need the higher end of the rebound damping to have the same effect. I used to have a bike with a very short stroke (5" travel, 165mm eye to eye shock), and ended up running the shock at near 300psi, the rebound did pretty much nothing.
    Stumpy FSR 29er
  • neninja
    neninja Posts: 424
    I'm more familiar with motorcycle suspension but it sounds like you have too much rebound dialled in.

    Too much rebound will make the shock pump down as it can't recover fast enough to extend back to it's full stroke. This has the effect of reducing the rear travel making the shock firmer as it can't move through it's stroke. The linkage and damping of the shock are likely to ramp up the compression towards the end of the stroke so if you pump the shock down you'll be pinging off stuff.

    Try backing the rebound off considerably and see what it's like.
  • larrythelathe
    larrythelathe Posts: 143
    i am runnig the shock at 250psi mark but i have not yet acheived full travel so will take a little out. seems alots more than linkage driven bikes but there you.

    i am reluctant to shell out on a full service as its alot of cash i normaly service the air cans myself.

    what i don't understand is how the rebound circut can loose a degree of its damping. I can however see there could well be a link between pressure in the can and the amount of damping it can acheive because of this.

    locotuning what are your thought on this?
  • neninja
    neninja Posts: 424
    Are you the first owner of the frame and shock and were they bought together?

    The other possibility is that the shock was added later and has the incorrect tune for the frame. I don't know which tune Orange 5's run but the RP23's supplied with them have a custom shim stack to suit the bike.

    An aftermarket shock may not work as well and could need the compression and rebound tunes adjusting to suit the Orange.
  • Locotuning
    Locotuning Posts: 69
    Set the shock on the sag, not the recomended air pressure. between 25% and 30% of the full travel of the shock.

    As regards the rebound damping refer to my tuning guide in the above post, as mentioned above you don't want the shock to 'pack down' on repeated hits as this will make it harsh neither do you want it to pogo back from hits as this will be harsh too and potentially fire you over the bars at some point.

    It's just about getting the right balance with the settings. As I'm sure you can appreciate it's difficult to diagnose the problem over the net, but if the shock has not been fully serviced in the last 12 to 18 months it may have got lost some oil or had the oil charged with some nitrogen due to blown seals both of which will cause loss or inconsistentcy in both the compression and rebound damping.
    Suspension servicing, tuning, parts, setup and race support
    Locotuning.co.uk
  • doggegg
    doggegg Posts: 61
    cavegiant wrote:
    re the 18 remark, heavier riders tend to prefer less damping. I run my rebound circuits full open and use lighter oil.

    That's what I meant, heavier rider usually wants faster rebound. Mine, like the OP, is waaay too slow - hence running on max.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Hang on, what?
    I'd like an explanation as to why a heavier rider would want more rebound damping.

    And, it sounds like the OP wants slower (more) rebound damping.
  • doggegg
    doggegg Posts: 61
    Confused myself now tbh fella.
    But if I had a lardass I'd want it faster so it didn't pack down.

    And it sounds to me like he wants it slower seeing as it's on max.

    Gaaah I misread your previous post - we were saying the same thing
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Thing is though, if you ARE a heavier rider, then the spring rate will be higher which means you will probably need more rebound damping to reduce the shock's extension, since it's resisting a stronger spring.
    I'm also fairly certain that the normal range of adjustment of a shock more than caters for any real-world requirements.
  • doggegg
    doggegg Posts: 61
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    I'm also fairly certain that the normal range of adjustment of a shock more than caters for any real-world requirements.

    12 stone and my factory set rebound is waaaaay too fast.

    Factory settings aren't the be all and end all.


    I will accede the fact that people are different and what suits you won't suit me, but my rebound on RP23 is too fast, max damping only makes it acceptable..not ideal
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    The range of adjustments, not the pre-set.
    I'm becoming almost certain that what you actually want from the shock is not ideal.
    Remeber that it's the suspension's job to cope with the really fast bumps, your arms and legs deal with the really big hits.
    There's an interesting VIDEO ON FREECASTER showing the pounding that Nick Beer's very well set up forks take on a run in Fort William. Might be of interest to see exactly what suspension is expected to do.
  • doggegg
    doggegg Posts: 61
    I just want another 6 clicks on rebound. I've got the wrong tune and so does the OP by th3e sound of it.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Sorry, but I still find it hard to believe you need another 6 clicks. The back end would take ages to re-extend, making it pack up over virtually anything, and rendering it useless.
  • larrythelathe
    larrythelathe Posts: 143
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    The range of adjustments, not the pre-set.
    I'm becoming almost certain that what you actually want from the shock is not ideal.
    Remeber that it's the suspension's job to cope with the really fast bumps, your arms and legs deal with the really big hits.
    There's an interesting VIDEO ON FREECASTER showing the pounding that Nick Beer's very well set up forks take on a run in Fort William. Might be of interest to see exactly what suspension is expected to do.

    i agree with what your saying and as a out of interest i just went and halfed the psi in the shock and rebound damping is indeed linked to shock pressure. i don't want it so slow it packs and i bottom out i just want a sensible level.

    now i am not massive (90 Kg) so are fox shocks no good in for people of my size? should i have to get a custome tune?
    why not design it to have a much larger range?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    the air pressure in the shock depends on bike design as well as your weight. Like I said, i'm almost certain you're wanting a rather weird setup from the shock.
  • larrythelathe
    larrythelathe Posts: 143
    yes i do see that and no its not a odd setup. I just would like to get the same amount of damping a ligher guy could.
    I will try and film it after me ride tonight and show you what i mean
    diet for me !
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    you're hardly excessively heavy at 90Kg though.

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