Worth Restoring ? ......or shall i just go out and buy new?
Comments
-
Pross wrote:Sounds like your son got unlucky.
He can only think that water must have got inside the tubing via the seat post and caused it to rust. I believe that it is always worth checking on any frame, that if the bike has been ridden in the wet that this hasn't happened.0 -
^ Always a good idea to make sure there's a drain hole in the underside of the BB shell. The problem isn't that the water can get in, it's that it can't get out.0
-
Chris James wrote:STI shifters are reliable and work flawlessly - how can friction shifters be slicker than simply pressing a button or lever? In fact, if friction shifters are so good why has pretty mcuh everyone abandoned them in favour or ergos / STIs despite friction shifters being lighter? It would certainly be entertaining trying to friction shift on a 10 or 11 speed cassette. I Used friction shifters for about 25 years so think I managed to get the hang of them.!
Did anyone say STIs were less slick than friction? Ulitmately, friction is more reliable but that matters less these days because people change their bikes and upgrade all the time. STIs don't have to be so long lasting as friction. As for 10 or 11 speed? Again, did anyone suggest friction shifting on 10 or 11. Half the point is that the complicated technology isn't needed for something like a 6 speed. And the front mech pretty much shifts like a switch anyway if set up correctly.
Do they work flawlessly? Of course not - not always. You still have to adjust indexing etc - for friction you only have limits to worry about.
I like STIs but to suggest they are in every way superior to the mechanically much simpler alternative is misguided.Chris James wrote:The comment about modern parts not lasting is incorrect in my view, and if something does need replacing then at least you can go to a shop and buy a new part, rather than having to trawl Ebay or bike rallies!
Yes - but the point is that you probably won't need a new part for the old systems. Sorry, but modern parts do not last as long. All the time threads are posted here about combined brake/shifter mechanisms breaking. There are two pivots in a traditional brake and that's it. Surely you don't really believe that a lump of Shimano Tiagra or Campag Veloce is going to last 10s of thousands of miles over decades without a reasonable chance of failure. And, when it breaks, where will you find the replacement if not by trawling ebay. Unless it happens pretty quickly (not actually that unlikely) by the time you need the part, it will be obsolete anyway. Not that 'trawling ebay' is much harder than general online shopping.
Mind, I'd agree that centering old brakes can be a bother though. As for performance - if you actually directly compare performance by experiment, you'll find the difference less than you think.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Yes, hereRolf F wrote:Did anyone say STIs were less slick than friction?Weejie54 wrote:Perhaps some people never fully learn how to use friction shifters. With the right technique, they can be slicker than STI etc.
No-one suggested friction shifting 11 speed as it would be a very stupid suggestion. The point I am making is that keeping friction shifters means deliberately avoiding the benefits of 10 or 11 speed systems – i.e. close ratios, larger range.Rolf F wrote:As for 10 or 11 speed? Again, did anyone suggest friction shifting on 10 or 11.
Slightly baffled by this response. I have put at least ten thousand miles on my 105 STIs on my winter bike and they are fine. If, on the other hand, they do break then I can buy some new 10 speed STIs and have them delivered to my door the next day. Even if I was running 9 speed I could still get 9 speed compatible shifters off the shelf – or I could buy 10 speed shifters and simply buy a new chain and 10 speed cassette to fit on 8/9/10 speed compatible 130mm OLN wheels.Rolf F wrote:Yes - but the point is that you probably won't need a new part for the old systems. Sorry, but modern parts do not last as long. All the time threads are posted here about combined brake/shifter mechanisms breaking. There are two pivots in a traditional brake and that's it. Surely you don't really believe that a lump of Shimano Tiagra or Campag Veloce is going to last 10s of thousands of miles over decades without a reasonable chance of failure. And, when it breaks, where will you find the replacement if not by trawling ebay. Unless it happens pretty quickly (not actually that unlikely) by the time you need the part, it will be obsolete anyway. Not that 'trawling ebay' is much harder than general online shopping
My mate has run 8 speed Campag Chorus for donkey’s years and has many tens of thousands of miles on those ergos.
I have run side pull, centre pull, dual pivot normal drop and long drop. For me, dual pivot are miles ahead of the others in terms of actually slowing the bike.Rolf F wrote:As for performance - if you actually directly compare performance by experiment, you'll find the difference less than you think.0 -
Incidentally, the friend with Chrorus shifters has refurbed them once, and all the parts were available off the shelf from Mercian.0
-
FWIW:
1. Hyperglide cassettes or freewheels make friction shifting much, much easier and more precise. (I haven't tried 10 or 11 speed with friction though.)
2. I still have a set of Dura-Ace 7400 STI levers bought in 1991 that are working fine. They have done tens of thousands of km. Cheaper ones are IME vastly more likely to break though.
3. I think that brakes are where one will see the biggest difference in performance. there's no way I'd voluntarily go back to most 1970s or 1980s brakes. They'd still do the job though, just not as well,
4. Both new stuff and old stuff have their good and bad points; most non-broken bikes are both useful and fun.0 -
Chris James wrote:Yes, here
And I stand by it. With the right technique and because of the shorter cable run, I have found them slicker.0 -
Chris James wrote:Slightly baffled by this response. I have put at least ten thousand miles on my 105 STIs on my winter bike and they are fine. If, on the other hand, they do break then I can buy some new 10 speed STIs and have them delivered to my door the next day. Even if I was running 9 speed I could still get 9 speed compatible shifters off the shelf – or I could buy 10 speed shifters and simply buy a new chain and 10 speed cassette to fit on 8/9/10 speed compatible 130mm OLN wheels.
A sample set of one or two isn't statistically useful. Bottom line is you are swapping about 3 largish pivots with lots of small components. Compared to STIs, my old Weinmann brakes and shifters are massively over-engineered. I just can't see how they would break. Ever! They will be certainly less likely to break than STI. It can't really be otherwise.
Point taken re the benefits of eg 10 speed cassettes but there are plenty of people around that seem to think single speed is a great idea. I don't suggest that friction shifters are a superior solution to a bike where 10 speed is useful - more where people might consider single speed a sensible option. In this case, there is no point in having 10 speed and every point in having 6 speed - for reasons of reliability, durability, cost and simplicity.
You might be able to go and buy a new STI lever slightly more quickly than a friction shifter part, but in the unlikely event you needed the latter, it would cost a fraction of the cost of the STI component.
As I said, I run both old and new bikes so I know a bit about it too. All I've personally really said is that friction is a perfectly viable setup and it is cheaper to run than STI - which is surely pretty uncontroversial!
Big plus one re Satanas point 4 above!Faster than a tent.......0 -
Rolf, I think you are missing my point slightly.
I don't expect your Weinmann brakes will fail - except fail to work very well (I ran Weinmann brakes and found them very poor).
Likewise your brake levers won't pack in - except the rubber hoods perish and crack - as happened to mine.
My point about replacability was aimed at the consumables. Decent quality freewheels are not generally available, 126mm OLN hubs likewise. I have no idea what bottom bracket the OP is likely to have and their availablity. He may even run 27 x 1 1/4 tyres.
If, in order to restore the bike he ends up paying to get the back end respaced, the frame resprayed, new wheels to accept a freehub and cassette, new cables ... blah, blah then this has already cost approximately the same as a brand new bike.
I originally suggested that he do the bare minimum to keep the bike running and save any extra cash he has for an additional, newer, bike.0 -
My point about replacability was aimed at the consumables. Decent quality freewheels are not generally available, 126mm OLN hubs likewise.
Both are fairly easy to locate. Byercycles and SJS, for example.If, in order to restore the bike he ends up paying to get the back end respaced, the frame resprayed, new wheels to accept a freehub and cassette, new cables ... blah, blah then this has already cost approximately the same as a brand new bike.
From what the OP says, it has already been resprayed. Cold forming the rear triangle is something that can be done at home - a decent bike shop won't charge that much either. I can't see the cost getting anywhere near the cost of a new bike of comparable quality.0 -
To get back into riding he doesn't need to replace the back end, 6 speed will be fine for getting around. I still run 7 speed on my winter bike - OK it would be nice to have an extra gear on the back for the steep stuff but I've switch to a 38/23 whereas I would have run 42/21 in the past. My advice would be renovate, see if you still enjoy riding and then look to treat yourself to a new bike when you can afford it rather than spending hundreds now on a fairly low spec new bike and ending up buying a new bike in a year in any case. Let's be honest, very few cyclists stay with a budget bike if they get bitten by the bug so why not just use an old bike for a year to fill that jump?0
-
Chris James wrote:Rolf, I think you are missing my point slightly.
Quite possibly - missing the point is a great skill of mine
Thing is though, probably nothing much needs replacing. When I renovated the Dawes, I did need new wheels but those were readily available. I needed a new bottom bracket - a standard Shimano fitted. I can replace the entire triple crankset with a decent Sugino if I desire for £35. That's cheaper than the cassette for my Look!
I think all I'm really getting at is that in the bad old days, a bike shop expected to sell you a bike and then the occasional inner tube and puncture repair kit. The industry of endless upgrades didn't exist. You rode your bike til it wore out which took a long time indeed. Components now have more built in obsolescence. I don't disagree that modern stuff is functionally better when new - just that it won't last as long (it isn't meant to) and it will cost more to replace. It may be more financially beneficial in the short term to bin the old bike and buy a new one but, even if a respray was required, the old bike in the long term will always cost less to run.
As for brake performance. I found the Weinmanns on my Raleigh equivalent to 1990 105. I took 12 metres to stop from about 23 mph on a downslope compared to 10 metres using brand new Centaur on my Look. The two metres could, of course, make all the difference. However, to be fair, the blocks could well be 30 years old (I have bought, but not fitted, new ones - the old ones produce huge amounts of granulated brake rubber after each ride!) and the rims are steel. Again, period replacement alloys now bought so hopefully I can make a fairer test. What was interesting was that the Weinmanns did feel ineffective - but the actual results suggested otherwise.[/i]Faster than a tent.......0 -
Thanks for the advice guys.........still have a lot to learn over the new technology, will stick with the old for now!
Have looked on ebay and various other places, I am going to replace the gears/cogs for now as they are worn, but will do it as cheap as possible. Will probably buy a new bike this time next year.
Am in the process of getting a quote to have it powder coated, so have been stripping the bike down and the seat post is seized. I actually snapped the seat off the post and he top of the post has shattered, still a few inches showing though!!
Anyway, off to the workshop forum to have a look on how to remove it.
Thanks again, cheers
Lee0
