Critical mass rides..Good or Bad thing?

jc4lab

Thinking of going on one for the first time. in Manchester..Saw one once in New York..Loud and discruptive..Are they the same here and suitable for all?

pneumatic

IMHO, they mostly serve to confirm the negative stereotypes of us that anti-cyclists find deeply comforting.

Sitting in your 4x4, with the engine running, you can look out at the blocked street in front of you and say:

"Look at all those f...ing hippy scrounging noisy low-life lefty Guardian-reading scruffs with nothing better to do than obstruct decent hard-working, tax-paying Daily Mail reading families from going about their legitimate business."

Critical Mass is to mutual respect among road users, what Ian Paisley is to ecumenical understanding.

[/rant]

Crapaud

Uh, oh ...

nolf

You might as well ask:
Are hairy legged, helmetless, mountain bike riding, shimano using, Armstrong loving, Pantani hating, EPO using, cocaine taking, hippies, right?

edhornby

I'd agree with Pneumatic

problem with critical mass is that the people who participate aren't sure what they're participacting in, ask everyone and they will all give you a different answer. So if they can't agree amongst themselves they'll never convince anyone else..

I got stuck in a traffic jam of cars when on my bike the other weekend, I get to the front of the queue and it's the critical mass holding me up !!!

AndyRubio

Bad thing. Tossers. They fight hate with hate.

bompington

Without wishing to generate more heat than light (some hope), can anyone explain two things to me:

1. What is the actual purpose of Critical Mass?
2. Does it achieve this purpose?

pneumatic

AndyRubio wrote:

Bad thing. Tossers. They fight hate with hate.

Ok, so now that we are agreed that we hate those who fight hate with hate, I can see the beginnings of a downward spiral :shock:

So, what might be an alternative way of putting forward the positive point(s) that these people are trying to make (disregarding the simple desire to be tribal)?

I heard someone on the wireless the other day saying that one of the reasons that cyclists in Copenhagen get so much respect (apart from the traffic laws and the infrastructure) was that everyone in a car knows someone personally who cycles (neice, nephew, cousin, colleague etc..) so it is easier for them to empathise with all cyclists.

"Our problem," he said "is that, in the UK, we don't have that kind of critical mass."

nottscobb

edhornby wrote:

I got stuck in a traffic jam of cars when on my bike the other weekend, I get to the front of the queue and it's the critical mass holding me up !!!

I had the same thing in Sheffield once, I almost wanted to go back down the line of traffic and apologise to each car driver and point out that the people holding them up weren't all cyclists, just a mis-informed few.

verylonglegs

I think the problem with these sorts of events, like the G8 demonstrations, is they are not just attended by those who believe in the aims of the protest but they attract a lot of people who also like to go just for the aggro they cause.

Crapaud

bompington wrote:

Without wishing to generate more heat than light (some hope), can anyone explain two things to me:

1. What is the actual purpose of Critical Mass?
2. Does it achieve this purpose?

It's original purpose, as I understand it, was to highlight that cyclists had been forgotton when it came to road design / infrastructure and having a right to use the roads. The idea was to make cyclists visible to the authorities by travelling in a 'mass' and making our presence felt. This has been denied / evaded by various pro-CMers.

Does it work? Apparently, it's great strength is that it is leaderless and can be about anything you want: enviromentalism, anti-capitalism, a nice wee bike ride around town (at walking pace) ...anything. So, no, IMO it doesn't work. It hasn't any clear message and no way to diseminate one if it had. A part of the problem is that these people are not fundamentally pro-cycling. They fail to realise that their own politics / philosophy / dogma etc. is the main reason that they're there; it's not about cycling, the bike is only a part of what they see as the solution to whatever it is that they're protesting / promoting.

rick_chasey

I bet it's a laugh!

Mob mentality and all that.

deptfordmarmoset

CM is all too ''us versus them'' for me. If you agree that it's all about sharing the road with other users, then good visibility, clear signals, eye contact, courteousness, smiles, will all do much more for raising the profile of cycling. In a way, each cyclist can be a kind of personal ambassador for cycling, negotiating his or her right to be on the road considerately with other road users.

EDIT: and what Crapaud just said...

electric_blue

Critical Mass was very important in the mid 90s. It's aim was to get cycling onto the transport agenda and in that aim it suceeded.

Now it has no puropse; it is boring, pointless, and maybe time to call a halt.

I've been on the odd one or two in recent years just to try to recapture the old spirit of '94 and tbh left early thoroughly fed up/bored/embarrassed.

Please don;t judge CM from it's glorious heyday by the pathetic version you see in London now.

eh

Every CM I've seen has been taken over by your typical middle class, lefty, Greenpeace w*ankers. I even got held up cycling home from work by one once, super annoying.

I just can't see how CM puts cycling in a good light, or helps with the issue of more tolerance between cars and cyclists.

jc4lab

The Manchester lot go every last Friday of the Month from Manc Library.Im basically looking for any group rides just to tag along.The rides are actually advertised here in Manc on Local bike shop websites.....,,Think I'd better get a peep hole balacalava from poundshop

Bronzie

jc4lab wrote:

Im basically looking for any group rides just to tag along.

Join a cycling club

Crapaud

Bronzie wrote:

jc4lab wrote:

Im basically looking for any group rides just to tag along.

Join a cycling club

Or a campaigning group if you feel the need to promote/defend cycling - I'd be surprised if the isn't one on Manc - they'll probably do a monthly run as well.

Smokin Joe

They're just yobs.

Better educated yobs, but the same breed as those who think trashing a foreign city with an England shirt on is promoting their country.

Anonymous

The best way to promote cycling in the city is by more people riding their bikes to get to where they want to go IMO.
Not by blocking of roads by the 'rent a mob' who for some reason turn up at any and all protests no matter what the protest is about...

electric_blue

NapoleonD wrote:

The best way to promote cycling in the city is by more people riding their bikes to get to where they want to go IMO.
Not by blocking of roads by the 'rent a mob' who for some reason turn up at any and all protests no matter what the protest is about...

i doubt if anyone from CM went to Countryside Alliance demos

now there was a "rent a mob" - most of the people on that march were being paid to be there.

deptfordmarmoset

jc4lab wrote:

The Manchester lot go every last Friday of the Month from Manc Library.Im basically looking for any group rides just to tag along.The rides are actually advertised here in Manc on Local bike shop websites.....,,Think I'd better get a peep hole balacalava from poundshop

If you're simply looking for group rides, a quick search throws up 7 CTC groups in the Greater Manchester area. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to tag along with some of these....

http://www.ctc.org.uk/events_guide/even ... group.aspx

EDIT: that link didn't work...let's try this.... http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3378

alenehan

I have just moved from the Detroit (MI USA) area to here in Liverpool. CM in my hometown was not so rowdy as you are all describing it to be, so I don't think they are all the same. We make a smooth pass through downtown, then move on to a large group ride, ending in a nice party in an appropriate place. And we have smaller group rides of 30-100 people every week along the same lines, but spend more time in the city. But I suppose there is not much tension between motorists and cyclists in my town, as we are quite a bike-friendly community since the 90's.

Although the police tend to chase us on every Monday night ride for some reason. I guess they have nothing better to do. Haha.

sonny73

NapoleonD wrote:

The best way to promote cycling in the city is by more people riding their bikes to get to where they want to go IMO.
Not by blocking of roads by the 'rent a mob' who for some reason turn up at any and all protests no matter what the protest is about...

+1, sadly the intention is a good one with CM but the result is detrimental to many drivers perceptions of cyclists.

shouldbeinbed

pneumatic wrote:

IMHO, they mostly serve to confirm the negative stereotypes of us that anti-cyclists find deeply comforting.

Sitting in your 4x4, with the engine running, you can look out at the blocked street in front of you and say:

"Look at all those f...ing hippy scrounging noisy low-life lefty Guardian-reading scruffs with nothing better to do than obstruct decent hard-working, tax-paying Daily Mail reading families from going about their legitimate business."

Critical Mass is to mutual respect among road users, what Ian Paisley is to ecumenical understanding.

[/rant]

+145,000 not my cup of tea at all and I've argued with Spen over them on here. deliberately provocative timing and route dressed up as a convivial social ride.


If you want motorists to think of you and the rest of us as unhelpful scum, you go for it

not in my name though eh.

spen666

Crapaud wrote:

....

Does it work? Apparently, it's great strength is that it is leaderless and can be about anything you want: enviromentalism, anti-capitalism, a nice wee bike ride around town (at walking pace) ...anything. So, no, IMO it doesn't work. It hasn't any clear message and no way to diseminate one if it had. A part of the problem is that these people are not fundamentally pro-cycling. They fail to realise that their own politics / philosophy / dogma etc. is the main reason that they're there; it's not about cycling, the bike is only a part of what they see as the solution to whatever it is that they're protesting / promoting.

you seem to be assuming WRONGLY that everyone on CM has some form of message to get across. It works great for me as I get a chance to meet up with friends and have a pootle round London.

My aim when attending CM is to go for a pootle round London with friends.

Therefore it does work for me.

spen666

nottscobb wrote:

edhornby wrote:

I got stuck in a traffic jam of cars when on my bike the other weekend, I get to the front of the queue and it's the critical mass holding me up !!!

I had the same thing in Sheffield once, I almost wanted to go back down the line of traffic and apologise to each car driver and point out that the people holding them up weren't all cyclists, just a mis-informed few.

Why?

Do you expect motorists to go down the line apologising for the hold ups caused by motor vehicles every morning and night?

No? Why not- cyclist and motorists are all part of the traffic. Neither group has any need to apologise to the other for exercising their right to use the Highway.

pneumatic

spen666 wrote:

nottscobb wrote:

edhornby wrote:

I got stuck in a traffic jam of cars when on my bike the other weekend, I get to the front of the queue and it's the critical mass holding me up !!!

I had the same thing in Sheffield once, I almost wanted to go back down the line of traffic and apologise to each car driver and point out that the people holding them up weren't all cyclists, just a mis-informed few.

Why?

Do you expect motorists to go down the line apologising for the hold ups caused by motor vehicles every morning and night?

No? Why not- cyclist and motorists are all part of the traffic. Neither group has any need to apologise to the other for exercising their right to use the Highway.

As I said earlier, Critical Mass is to mutual respect among road users, what Ian Paisley is to ecumenical understanding. :roll: :roll: :roll:

spen666

pneumatic wrote:

spen666 wrote:

nottscobb wrote:

edhornby wrote:

I got stuck in a traffic jam of cars when on my bike the other weekend, I get to the front of the queue and it's the critical mass holding me up !!!

I had the same thing in Sheffield once, I almost wanted to go back down the line of traffic and apologise to each car driver and point out that the people holding them up weren't all cyclists, just a mis-informed few.

Why?

Do you expect motorists to go down the line apologising for the hold ups caused by motor vehicles every morning and night?

No? Why not- cyclist and motorists are all part of the traffic. Neither group has any need to apologise to the other for exercising their right to use the Highway.

As I said earlier, Critical Mass is to mutual respect among road users, what Ian Paisley is to ecumenical understanding. :roll: :roll: :roll:

and motoring is the same or are you saying motorists have more rights than cyclists to use the roads

Crapaud

spen666 wrote:

Crapaud wrote:

....

Does it work? Apparently, it's great strength is that it is leaderless and can be about anything you want: enviromentalism, anti-capitalism, a nice wee bike ride around town (at walking pace) ...anything. So, no, IMO it doesn't work. It hasn't any clear message and no way to diseminate one if it had. A part of the problem is that these people are not fundamentally pro-cycling. They fail to realise that their own politics / philosophy / dogma etc. is the main reason that they're there; it's not about cycling, the bike is only a part of what they see as the solution to whatever it is that they're protesting / promoting.

you seem to be assuming WRONGLY that everyone on CM has some form of message to get across. It works great for me as I get a chance to meet up with friends and have a pootle round London.

My aim when attending CM is to go for a pootle round London with friends.

Therefore it does work for me.

I assumed nothing. Re-read my post. The fact is that a large proportion of participants have another agenda of which cycling is only a part. If it was about cycling, fine, but there's too much political baggage involved for me.

spen666

shouldbeinbed wrote:

pneumatic wrote:

IMHO, they mostly serve to confirm the negative stereotypes of us that anti-cyclists find deeply comforting.

Sitting in your 4x4, with the engine running, you can look out at the blocked street in front of you and say:

"Look at all those f...ing hippy scrounging noisy low-life lefty Guardian-reading scruffs with nothing better to do than obstruct decent hard-working, tax-paying Daily Mail reading families from going about their legitimate business."

Critical Mass is to mutual respect among road users, what Ian Paisley is to ecumenical understanding.

[/rant]

+145,000 not my cup of tea at all and I've argued with Spen over them on here. deliberately provocative timing and route dressed up as a convivial social ride.


If you want motorists to think of you and the rest of us as unhelpful scum, you go for it

not in my name though eh.

The cyclists are being no more provocative than the motorists with their use of the road


It is funny how the attitude of motorists having more right to use the road seems to pervade even a cycling website. No one criticises the motorists for causing congestion with their CHOICE to use their vehicles