Winter series at Hog Hill

terongi
terongi Posts: 318
edited February 2011 in Amateur race
Is there a winter series at Hog Hill this year?
«1

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  • rjeffroy
    rjeffroy Posts: 638
    Yes, starts Dec 27 I believe
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  • BlackdownBuzzard
    BlackdownBuzzard Posts: 30
    rjeffroy wrote:
    Yes, starts Dec 27 I believe

    I've been wondering this for weeks!

    Thanks :lol:

    Now I know what date to stop eating the pies on. Is it really a hill or just a teeny slope? Don't want to pay transport cost to London only to find myself on a glorified airfield.
    I climb faster then you.
  • terongi
    terongi Posts: 318
    BlackdownBuzzard wrote:
    Now I know what date to stop eating the pies on. Is it really a hill or just a teeny slope? Don't want to pay transport cost to London only to find myself on a glorified airfield.

    One man's hill is another man's teeny slope.

    To us soft london pansies, it feels like a pretty steep hill. It's a 2 km circuit with a 300 m climb at the end. I don't know the gradients but it feels like 10-15% as it gets steeper towards the finish line.

    Come and see for yourself.

    Airfield? I can't imagine anything other than a helicopter being able to take off from there.
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    It is a big ring hill, but still a hill, and it gets worse each lap, especially when you have to sprint up it for the bunch sprint.
  • BlackdownBuzzard
    BlackdownBuzzard Posts: 30
    SBezza wrote:
    It is a big ring hill, but still a hill, and it gets worse each lap, especially when you have to sprint up it for the bunch sprint.

    How is that circuit frequently won then? Climbers breaking away??

    Got myself a car now. Desperate to avoid a repeat of the last season where I was racing on an airfield all the time. Packed in cycling for 2 months out of frustration over it. Not good being a climber on a pan flat course. :lol:
    I climb faster then you.
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    BlackdownBuzzard wrote:
    SBezza wrote:
    It is a big ring hill, but still a hill, and it gets worse each lap, especially when you have to sprint up it for the bunch sprint.

    How is that circuit frequently won then? Climbers breaking away??

    Got myself a car now. Desperate to avoid a repeat of the last season where I was racing on an airfield all the time. Packed in cycling for 2 months out of frustration over it. Not good being a climber on a pan flat course. :lol:

    I only do 1 or 2 races on it, but it isn't a hill for the climbers as such, it is too short for that IMO. Most Cat 4 races end in a bunch sprint I would guess, with perhaps the breakaway occasionally staying out the front.

    I am sure some of the regular racers will give a better insight.
  • dave milne
    dave milne Posts: 703
    Only raced it once and got second by starting my sprint early on the hill after a lone breakaway had succeeded.

    Again it's not much of a hill but it's enough to really hurt
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    SBezza wrote:
    I only do 1 or 2 races on it, but it isn't a hill for the climbers as such, it is too short for that IMO. Most Cat 4 races end in a bunch sprint I would guess, with perhaps the breakaway occasionally staying out the front.

    The 4th cat races I've watched often ended in shattered fields and people coming in in dribs and drabs, breaks often succeeded, but yes not always, there was always a good chance to at least get away and try to make a break stick.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • gattocattivo
    gattocattivo Posts: 500
    I've done quite a few of the 4th cat winter series races and they usually go one of two ways:

    a) 80% of the field stays together with the rest burnt off the back - one or two riders break away and get a lead of 10 seconds for a lap before getting caught again - bunch sprint up the hill

    b) (especially when windy) the whole field gets shredded to pieces early on and splits into loads of small groups / individual riders; nearly everyone gets lapped by about four or five leaders

    See this thread for last winter:
    http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12670758
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    terongi wrote:
    It's a 2 km circuit with a 300 m climb at the end.
    Suspect that should probably read 30m

    Feels like 300m after an hour mind you :lol:
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • wjcrombie
    wjcrombie Posts: 43
    The format of the winter series at Hog Hill is changing a bit this year.

    First off, we are starting later (Dec 27th) and finishing a few weeks later (cant remember the exact date)

    Secondly, we will be offering 3 different races:

    - 4th cat only race on the bottom circuit
    - 3/4 race on the bottom circuit
    - 2/3/4 race on the full circuit

    This way you can decide if you want to take on the hill or have an easier race on the bottom circuit.

    As for the original question, Hog hill does have a reasonable hill. Total elevation change is approximately 25 metres over a full lap with most of that on the main hill. It is more of a short sharp hill that rewards the more powerful riders than a long drag for the climbers.
    The circuit can be riden 2 way and going the anti-clockwise direction makes the hill longer and a bit less steap which I think the climbers find easier.
    If you want to make it a hard race, the course will reward your efforts.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    wjcrombie wrote:
    Secondly, we will be offering 3 different races:

    - 4th cat only race on the bottom circuit
    - 3/4 race on the bottom circuit

    Are you doing the finish at the bottom or still doing the finish up the hill?
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • terongi
    terongi Posts: 318
    Bronzie wrote:
    terongi wrote:
    It's a 2 km circuit with a 300 m climb at the end.
    Suspect that should probably read 30m

    Feels like 300m after an hour mind you :lol:

    No I did mean 300 metres. From memory, there are markers on the road counting down 200m, 150m, 100m and 50m.

    It may not be exactly 300m, but it's definitely more than 30
  • wjcrombie
    wjcrombie Posts: 43
    terongi wrote:
    No I did mean 300 metres. From memory, there are markers on the road counting down 200m, 150m, 100m and 50m.

    It may not be exactly 300m, but it's definitely more than 30

    The main hill is about 300 metres in length from bottom to top. Over that distance there is about 20 metres of elevation change. It gently ramps up with the steapest part being slight over 10%. The steepest bit is about 100 metres from the finish line. the finish line being the top of the hill.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    terongi wrote:
    No I did mean 300 metres.
    Sorry - it only dawned on me after I hit submit that you were referring to length rather than height gain
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • robrauy
    robrauy Posts: 252
    wjcrombie wrote:
    The format of the winter series at Hog Hill is changing a bit this year.

    First off, we are starting later (Dec 27th) and finishing a few weeks later (cant remember the exact date)

    Secondly, we will be offering 3 different races:

    - 4th cat only race on the bottom circuit
    - 3/4 race on the bottom circuit
    - 2/3/4 race on the full circuit

    This way you can decide if you want to take on the hill or have an easier race on the bottom circuit.

    That seems like a shame to me. I enjoy the 4th cat races because of the hill. I think they are safer in the sprint as well because of it.

    I've always avoided a flat circuit like hillingdon for fear of being taken out in the sprint.
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    wjcrombie wrote:
    As for the original question, Hog hill does have a reasonable hill. Total elevation change is approximately 25 metres over a full lap with most of that on the main hill. It is more of a short sharp hill that rewards the more powerful riders than a long drag for the climbers.
    The circuit can be riden 2 way and going the anti-clockwise direction makes the hill longer and a bit less steap which I think the climbers find easier.
    If you want to make it a hard race, the course will reward your efforts.
    As a climber who's not a bad sprinter either (but still too small to sprint well on a flat circuit) I think clockwise is more difficult (and therefore better for me :D) than anticlockwise.

    CW has a longer less steep "long" hill but is followed by another hill, which if it includes the alpine bends means that positoining at the top of the long hill is critical. Being able to corner well while climbing is also important in the alpine bends. Never done the sweeping bend but I can imagine that a good climber-type could go hard up the long hill and carry that right around for a second surge through the sweeping bend uphill and win that way.

    ACW has a steeper hill, especially after you round the corner for the last 30m before the finish line, but is immediately followed by the sweeping bend downhill which lets the bigger folks get a rest. Then you hammer over the top of the little rise before the long downhill -- this is where quite a few attacks happen -- and hope to hold on.

    The wind at the bottom is always there so skinny climber types can expect to have to work hard on the flat at the bottom regardless.

    Shame about the 3/4 and 4ths being held only on the bottom circuit. I suspect that ELV thinks their low turnouts at HH are due to perceived notions of the course being too hard, so they are trying to compete more with Hillingdon by making it easier/flatter.

    But the truth is, difficulty of the circuit doesn't turn people off (look at the numbers who flock to Crystal Palace in the summer), it's the location (miles in the countryside), inability to get there easily (nowhere near any useful highways and the train is horrible), and timing (7:15pm on a Thurs. evening in the summer means few from the city can get there in time without riding 90 min through awful East London and Essex traffic). That's my impression anyway, hope I'm proved wrong. One thing is for sure: I won't be going there to race on the bottom circuit!

    No women's winter series there this year either, despite my suggestion to Leslie that she run women's races every other weekend or third weekend rather than every weekend to get better numbers out. :(
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • Dess1e
    Dess1e Posts: 239
    Having raced the bottom circuit in LVRC races, it is by no means an "easier" circuit. The speed is higher and there is little place to rest. The hairpin turn after the finish gives an ideal opportunity to attack and make positioning crucial. Surprisingly as it is taken faster the drag after the gentle left hander at the bottom feels a lot worse than the same section when used on the full circuit as riders are normally recovering there.

    Give it a try, you may be surpised.
    www.kentonrc.co.uk
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Dess1e wrote:
    Having raced the bottom circuit in LVRC races, it is by no means an "easier" circuit. The speed is higher and there is little place to rest.

    Maybe in an LVRC race, but in a 3/4 ? Surely 90% of people will be sitting in for the sprint...
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Dess1e wrote:
    Give it a try, you may be surpised.
    Well, there's no women's racing on that circuit so there goes that incentive. But I'll take your word for it. :)

    Racing with men on a pan-flat course is someting I'm willing to do from time to time for training but Hog Hill is just too much of a day-killer to bother frankly (2hrs+ to get there, 2 hours racing, 2+ hours to get home). I'd rather save my HH mojo this winter for the cross races held there instead.
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • Dess1e
    Dess1e Posts: 239
    jibberjim wrote:
    Dess1e wrote:
    Having raced the bottom circuit in LVRC races, it is by no means an "easier" circuit. The speed is higher and there is little place to rest.

    Maybe in an LVRC race, but in a 3/4 ? Surely 90% of people will be sitting in for the sprint...

    If you can get several riders to constantly attack the elastic may break.
    www.kentonrc.co.uk
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    wjcrombie wrote:
    The format of the winter series at Hog Hill is changing a bit this year.

    First off, we are starting later (Dec 27th) and finishing a few weeks later (cant remember the exact date)

    Secondly, we will be offering 3 different races:

    - 4th cat only race on the bottom circuit
    - 3/4 race on the bottom circuit
    - 2/3/4 race on the full circuit

    This way you can decide if you want to take on the hill or have an easier race on the bottom circuit.

    As for the original question, Hog hill does have a reasonable hill. Total elevation change is approximately 25 metres over a full lap with most of that on the main hill. It is more of a short sharp hill that rewards the more powerful riders than a long drag for the climbers.
    The circuit can be riden 2 way and going the anti-clockwise direction makes the hill longer and a bit less steap which I think the climbers find easier.
    If you want to make it a hard race, the course will reward your efforts.

    Have you got an idea as to the likely start times for those races? Will there be a series of kids races accompanying these at some point?
  • Lion-O
    Lion-O Posts: 48
    hmm i enjoyed the handicap races last year at hog hill untill the elites caught us thirds then bang it went crazy. i did get dropped on the climb so will prob alternate between flat course (where i will aim to tear my legs to shreds! and make sure if its a sprint you better be strong!) and the 2/3/4 to get some early season form! could be interesting me thinks.
  • phersey
    phersey Posts: 30
    Would be great if E1s could also take part in at least some of the winter series racing at Hog Hill.
  • wjcrombie
    wjcrombie Posts: 43
    More details including start times below
    http://www.londoncyclesport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2926:east-london-velo-winter-series-201011&catid=42:event-news&Itemid=100[/url]
  • chaffordred
    chaffordred Posts: 131
    It's a shame the 4ths can't race on the full circuit. I rather enjoyed the hill and would definitely be doing this series if it was included.
    http://app.strava.com/athletes/1144043
    http://www.trainerroad.com/career/chaffordred
  • jmaccyd
    jmaccyd Posts: 17
    I think its a shame that the hill is being taken out and a I climb like a salted slug. The bottom circuit is fine but its not the real deal in my book
  • JackPozzi
    JackPozzi Posts: 1,191
    I'm looking to do a few of these this year, but a bit confused over licence requirements, I've got one for 2010, does that cover me for the first race as it in December, and then I'll need a 2011 licence for the rest of the series?

    Also any idea if the 4th cat race at least has the finish at the top of the hill?
  • Lion-O
    Lion-O Posts: 48
    i read on the errl forum that all races including 4ths 3rd and the 2/3s are on the full circuit.
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    15 quid to race 3rd cat only? Maybe ELV should just advertise they have points for sale... :roll:

    http://www.eastlondonvelo.cc/2010/11/elv-winter-series/
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka

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