Saddle Height.

Stoo61

Wondering whether the "tippy toes" method is in fact the most efficient or is it technically for safety?

Is it not better to have almost full leg extension on the bottom pedal in terms of getting the most out of each rotation?

ride_whenever

Wondering whether the "tippy toes" method is in fact the most efficient or is it technically for safety?
-TOSH this method doesn't really exist.

Is it not better to have almost full leg extension on the bottom pedal in terms of getting the most out of each rotation?
-Pretty much. Basically you want the saddle as high as you can without your hips rocking from side to side as you pedal.

Radioactiveman

If you want to put your feet on the floor get off the saddle

doktorsteve

The angle of the knee at full extension should be around 30deg (or 150 deg depwnding how you look at it). This has been found to be most efficient,

The old heel on the pedal at full extension is probably not far wrong.

I was told once that the idea was to keep the knee bent so that if your freewheel jammed you would not suddenly have your lower leg driven into your knee. Don't know how true that is!

Personally I don't even know if I can put my feet on the ground when I stop. When i get to a junction I either jump off the saddle or rest my left foot on the kerb. My right foot would be clipped in either way.

dmch2

doktorsteve wrote:

Personally I don't even know if I can put my feet on the ground when I stop. When i get to a junction I either jump off the saddle or rest my left foot on the kerb. My right foot would be clipped in either way.

I did that 3 times today and very nearly over balanced to the right. Wobbled back to the left or managed to unclip every time. Close though!

I've seen recommendations for 10-20° bent when the pedal is at 6 o'clock as well

father_jack

I can reach the floor when I'm on my saddle, I'd say toes are on the floor but not the "knuckle" of course it depends on the size of the frame, what cleats you wear (SPL-SL raise you up a little more than SPD) and if you want arrangement for power or bit more comfort.

StanwaySteve62

good rule of thumb is that the seat height is prob ok if your handlebars obscure the
front axle.
too low and you will see it behind the bar and too high it will be in front.
Then just fiddle till it feels right

dmch2

StanwaySteve62 wrote:

good rule of thumb is that the seat height is prob ok if your handlebars obscure the
front axle.
too low and you will see it behind the bar and too high it will be in front.
Then just fiddle till it feels right

Although stem length affects that. I though you did saddle height, then set back then look for the hub and set the stem length?

father_jack

When I'm on the hoods, I can see the hub in front of the bars. If we are to assume this is "wrong" and I move my saddle back (or have a longer stem) I feel too stretched. Only with I'm on the flats does the bar block the axle hub

sirdjango

Father Jack wrote:

When I'm on the hoods, I can see the hub in front of the bars. If we are to assume this is "wrong" and I move my saddle back (or have a longer stem) I feel too stretched. Only with I'm on the flats does the bar block the axle hub

my problem as well... but i dont feel to stretched out though...

andrewjoseph

Set seat hight for leg extension, layback for knee position over pedal, stem length for comfort.

obscuring the front axle is a red herring and can safely be ignored.

I like to keep my feet flat throughout the pedal stroke, this feels more comfortable and helps to keep my centre of gravity lower.

My wife has tried to do this but can't get on with it, so her toes point down throughout the pedal stroke.

As has been said, the only time you need your feet to touch the ground is when you are stopped, you get off the saddle to do this, put one foot on the ground and the other ready to pedal off.

Dunkeldog

Had a bike fit early August with Adrian Timmis at Cadence Sport. I suspected I was a little short of the perfect postion but nothing could have prepared me for the changes Adrian made. I had been over extending for years - such that I don't think I'd ever pedalled properly. Initially I felt like I was riding a BMX, so low did I feel on the bike. But within five minutes my cadence smoothed out, I was planted in in the seat rather than perched upon it, and I chopped six minutes off my best for a 50 miler I regularly ride. And this with taking it easy and easing into the new position. Can't recommend getting a proper fit enough - it feels like I've been introduced to my bike for the first time.

dmch2

How much does a proper fit cost? I'm assuming an hour of the shop's time (£30?) plus potentially things like a new stem, cranks, seat post etc as required?

Dmak

I found this interesting;

How to Fit a Road Bike

Bobbinogs

This is a good link, no mention of tippy toes though

http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm

CiB

+1 on the fit.

I used to go for the bars lined up with front axle, and saddle just high enough so as not to be stretching the legs. My bike fit moved the saddle back and down a bit and rotated the bars up a touch. World of difference - a bike that I was seriously thinking of selling is now the greatest bike I've ever owned.

Two things stood out for me on my fit : the protractor to measure the knee angle at the bottom of the stroke but with the foot in the right position - he watched me pedalling for a while to get a picture of where the feet are throughout the stroke, not when you're at rest; and the idea of lowering the seat by a gnat's if you move it backward, to allow for the seat tube angle.

I'd have a proper fit if I were you. On anything around £1000 and upwards for a bike, another £50 to make it work for you is the best money you can ever spend.

keef66

Decent bike shop should do a proper fit when they sell a bike. Epic Cycles spent ages setting mine up and charged me no extra.

Dunkeldog

Agreed Keef, looking at a new Kuota KOM from Epic and looking forward to a proper fit for it. My fit with Adrian at Cadencesport was £100 including the footbeds. This included cup of tea, chat about alpe d'huez, and over two and a half hours of Adrian going into the smallest detail to make sure I was absolutely set up right when I left. He even offered to lend me a 12cm stem to replace the 11cm on my bike. I reckon that's £30 an hour give or take (the footbeds were £30) - an absolute bargain given how I'm riding now. Cleared up a little hip niggle I was getting and an ankle problem. Feel 10 years younger on the bike now!

Simmo72

I've learned the hard way that all the theory about saddle height position is 'tosh' as there are so many factors to take into account that not 1 person is the same.

I'm 6ft 4 with a 99cm inside leg and suffered back ache for ages having followed a number of these theories. My problems only started to subside when I lowered my saddle a stonking 2 cm down to around 85 cm (centre bottom bracket to top of saddle) and moved the saddle forward by 1cm.

i can easily touch the ground when on the saddle and at first my saddle did feel low but I'm used to now and haven't seen any difference my performance, except I can ride longer because I am more comfortable.

I'm still fine tuning, but I'm in the mm zone rather than cm zone.

My point is there is no better method than listening to your own body rather than something on paper. Just watch a pro race, the riders position/leg extension varies so much.

kfinlay

Anywhere in Scotland that would do a professional bike fit? Tri-Centre in Edinburgh is supposed to be pretty basic (but effective for some) but I'd like to have a proper fit - Burton-On-Trent is about a 5-6hr drive each way so couldn't go to Cadence