Narrow car, good for us?

sonny73

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11301831
Nice idea, but look awful IMO and even though it is obviously hypothetical, 2 per lane doesn’t bode well for us lot (being cyclists) potentially?

Johnny G

Professor Murray is Swiss Toni!

dmch2

Professor Murray knows what he's talking about - he's not just a mad academic. He designed the McLaren road car of the 90s which only the Bugatti Veyron has (arguably) beaten and F1 cars that won dozens of races and was known for coming up with very innovative ideas. Plus lots of other interesting things (eg the Rocket road car was at least 10-15 years ahead of the current craze for things like the Radical and other motorbike engined cars)

I think his main push with this project is to make cars much more cheaply by looking at the whole process (eg make the bodyshells so more of them fit in a shipping container so the transport costs are lower etc)

I don't think we'll get side by side cars on country lanes but on a motorway do all lanes really need to be wide enough for an artic lorry?

rick_chasey

dmch2 wrote:

I don't think we'll get side by side cars on country lanes but on a motorway do all lanes really need to be wide enough for an artic lorry?

Yes

Radioactiveman

should keep his crap designs on the track where they belong

MattC59

Radioactiveman wrote:

should keep his crap designs on the track where they belong

I'm not trying to wind anyone up, but can you explain ? The concept and the design seem sound, the aesthetics may not be to your liking, but that doesn't mean it's a crap design. Very few crap designs make it to the track either...........

dmch2

That's what I thought. But this is a cycling forum after all!

sloboy

Maybe the driver of such a small vehicle would feel more vulnerable and so take more care.

But otherwise, I'd said the most dangerous roads for cyclists are the ones where there's just enough room for how ever many cars there's just enough room for. So a wide single carriageway, however fast, is relatively safe, cos no-one tries to squeeze you.

Radioactiveman

MattC59 wrote:

Radioactiveman wrote:

should keep his crap designs on the track where they belong

I'm not trying to wind anyone up, but can you explain ? The concept and the design seem sound, the aesthetics may not be to your liking, but that doesn't mean it's a crap design. Very few crap designs make it to the track either...........

No where to put a roof rack for bikes. No room for a weekend bike gear for 3 etc etc.
If you fitted a tow bar to the back the weight of bikes would tip it up.

Just realised people meant safer for cyclists. hahah oops That is probably why my first comment seemed odd !!

Even if they are narrower it would just mean the average inconsiderate driver would try to sneak past in even narrower places than normal.

downfader

Havent we had this design with the Peel 50 onwards already. It never took off then and its not taking off with the Lumeneo Smera which is pretty much a 2 seater car similar in size and electric.

Bit of a shame really as I quite like these little cars.

nwallace

Problem is, there are 3 seats, just like the McLaren F1 has...
Who needs 3 seats? You either need 2 or 5

downfader

nwallace wrote:

Problem is, there are 3 seats, just like the McLaren F1 has...
Who needs 3 seats? You either need 2 or 5

School-run Mum typically only needs 3, perhaps its aimed at them? When I ride home on an early shift I see lots of cars with a mother and two kids.

finchy

nwallace wrote:

Problem is, there are 3 seats, just like the McLaren F1 has...
Who needs 3 seats? You either need 2 or 5

Parents with 1 child

dmch2

downfader wrote:

Havent we had this design with the Peel 50 onwards already. It never took off then and its not taking off with the Lumeneo Smera which is pretty much a 2 seater car similar in size and electric.

Bit of a shame really as I quite like these little cars.

They've sold lots of smart cars. This is the same size, better handling, better fuel economy, takes more people, better acceleration and costs much less!

Plus whoever manufactures it can put whatever body they like on it, just remould the GRP!

I want one for when my Ka dies!

rolf_f

When you look how stupidly fat supposedly small cars are (like the comically named 'Mini' which is, to be honest, a barge. And what about the VW Polo - considerably larger than a Mk1 Golf), it is nice to see serious attempts to make proper small cars. Murray has had some daft ideas (Rocket anyone?) but this makes sense. Shame the mainstream motor industry has no imagination and vision whatsoever.......

downfader

dmch2 wrote:

downfader wrote:

Havent we had this design with the Peel 50 onwards already. It never took off then and its not taking off with the Lumeneo Smera which is pretty much a 2 seater car similar in size and electric.

Bit of a shame really as I quite like these little cars.

They've sold lots of smart cars. This is the same size, better handling, better fuel economy, takes more people, better acceleration and costs much less!

Plus whoever manufactures it can put whatever body they like on it, just remould the GRP!

I want one for when my Ka dies!

Smart cars are pretty cool. Slightly bigger than a classic mini though from what I have seen.

My Bro used to have an Italian Job Mini in British Racing green!! Superb car!! Scary around the bends, but not as much as the Smart car, nearly saw one topple the other day :shock:

desweller

Well, the technology just wasn't up to it when the Peel was made.

If he is proposing this as a serious piece of road-legal hardware, then presumably it is capable of receiving Type Approval, which would infer a minimum level of crash safety amongst other things.

I like it.

dmch2

Rolf F wrote:

When you look how stupidly fat supposedly small cars are (like the comically named 'Mini' which is, to be honest, a barge. And what about the VW Polo - considerably larger than a Mk1 Golf), it is nice to see serious attempts to make proper small cars. Murray has had some daft ideas (Rocket anyone?) but this makes sense. Shame the mainstream motor industry has no imagination and vision whatsoever.......

The rocket is a superb car - limited market admittedly but since I have a windscreenless Caterham I'm in that market!

His road cars always have absolute purity of purpose. If this is the best small, cheap car that he can design when ignoring all distractions then it is pretty much by definition the state of the art. Things like the mini are fashion accessories first and small cars second.

My Caterham:


Rocket:

downfader

dmch2 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

When you look how stupidly fat supposedly small cars are (like the comically named 'Mini' which is, to be honest, a barge. And what about the VW Polo - considerably larger than a Mk1 Golf), it is nice to see serious attempts to make proper small cars. Murray has had some daft ideas (Rocket anyone?) but this makes sense. Shame the mainstream motor industry has no imagination and vision whatsoever.......

The rocket is a superb car - limited market admittedly but since I have a windscreenless Caterham I'm in that market!

His road cars always have absolute purity of purpose. If this is the best small, cheap car that he can design when ignoring all distractions then it is pretty much by definition the state of the art. Things like the mini are fashion accessories first and small cars second.

My Caterham:


Rocket:

You have a Caterham!!! :shock: 8) Didnt know they were called that, they look and sound awesome. I've seen a yellow one being driven around Southampton this summer, looks hot as hell! 8)

snailracer

downfader wrote:

nwallace wrote:

Problem is, there are 3 seats, just like the McLaren F1 has...
Who needs 3 seats? You either need 2 or 5

School-run Mum typically only needs 3, perhaps its aimed at them? When I ride home on an early shift I see lots of cars with a mother and two kids.

School-run mum needs a 3-seater, but prefers a massive 4X4.

deptfordmarmoset

Rolf F wrote:

When you look how stupidly fat supposedly small cars are (like the comically named 'Mini' which is, to be honest, a barge. And what about the VW Polo - considerably larger than a Mk1 Golf), it is nice to see serious attempts to make proper small cars. Murray has had some daft ideas (Rocket anyone?) but this makes sense. Shame the mainstream motor industry has no imagination and vision whatsoever.......

The Golf, Polo and new Mini are, in my experience, probably the 3 cars that leave cyclists the least room when passing. My own theory is that their drivers think they're smaller and faster than they really are.

As for 2 cars sharing one lane...I've seen enough cars unable to keep in lanes designed for HGVs, the idea of them sharing lanes doesn't bear thinking about.

Ollieda

The idea is nice but imagine trying to control having 2 cars per lane. Would be far to hectic and if the lanes where that full up then there would be no leaway for things like emergency vehicles to squeeze past.

Would work if there were seperate lanes for them, i.e. a double lane taking the width of one single lane........but can't see that going down well with the rest of the driving public!

rolf_f

dmch2 wrote:

The rocket is a superb car - limited market admittedly but since I have a windscreenless Caterham I'm in that market!

The Caterham I get - the pointlessly antisocial Rocket I don't get. If I want a single seat experience, I'd get a single seater. If I want company, they can sit next to me!

Nice Caterham. I once fancied a 21 but if that idea had stuck I'd have probably got an Elise or a Europa. I got my Saab Turbo instead and seem to be spending the difference on bikes

rolf_f

Ollieda wrote:

The idea is nice but imagine trying to control having 2 cars per lane.

You don't need to imagine it - look how people cycle in London

LangerDan

dmch2 wrote:

downfader wrote:

Havent we had this design with the Peel 50 onwards already. It never took off then and its not taking off with the Lumeneo Smera which is pretty much a 2 seater car similar in size and electric.

Bit of a shame really as I quite like these little cars.

They've sold lots of smart cars. This is the same size, better handling, better fuel economy, takes more people, better acceleration and costs much less!

Plus whoever manufactures it can put whatever body they like on it, just remould the GRP!

I want one for when my Ka dies!

The car will stay small and light until the paying punter decides he'd like some airbags. And aircon. Fatter wheels. Thumping sound system. Soundproofing. And before you know it, that has gained 200 kg and needs a larger engine to move it. Look whats happening with the Tata Nano.

I'll reserve judgement on the price until it goes into production. Small run cars like this have a nasty habit of costing several times what was originally anticipated.The Lumeneo Smera mentioned above is over €24,000 and holds two.The carver trike is even more expensive. Murray has been banging his drum about cheap small cars for over a decade now. Theres absolutely no doubt that he has the technical know how to design this. The proof will be in the manufactuing. The car industry is littered with the remains of firms that had no shortage of technical talent but when it came to the commerical realities were an absolute disaster.

dmch2

Rolf F wrote:

dmch2 wrote:

The rocket is a superb car - limited market admittedly but since I have a windscreenless Caterham I'm in that market!

The Caterham I get - the pointlessly antisocial Rocket I don't get. If I want a single seat experience, I'd get a single seater. If I want company, they can sit next to me!

Nice Caterham. I once fancied a 21 but if that idea had stuck I'd have probably got an Elise or a Europa. I got my Saab Turbo instead and seem to be spending the difference on bikes

The rocket is VERY social, the passenger sits behind and straddles the driver!

Mr_Cellophane

Not a new concept

Bronzie

sloboy wrote:

Maybe the driver of such a small vehicle would feel more vulnerable and so take more care.

Not if they are all driven by the type of twunt that came flying past me in a Smart car at 50mph yesterday evening down a country lane with oncoming traffic. Obviously, he decided he was narrow enough to squeeze through. I'm not that narrow though. :roll:

downfader

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

Not a new concept

It was either that (the Isetta) or a Peel 50 I saw the other week on the back of a truck.

Just had a thought, people will be moaning about these drivers, driving two abreast on busy roads.. who do they think they are..

fast as fupp

Sonny73 wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11301831
Nice idea, but look awful IMO and even though it is obviously hypothetical, 2 per lane doesn’t bode well for us lot (being cyclists) potentially?

it looks like one of those spaz- chariots that used to be around in the 70's

those pale blue death traps!