Police ignoring pavement cycling

Andrew Brown

Whilst sat at traffic lights on my commute home tonight I was passed by a fellow cyclist riding along the pavement (really makes my p@&s boil!), even more annoying there was a police van in front of me both occupants of which ignored this blatant breach of the law. Having said that they had just driven down a bus lane to take a short cut on their way to KFC so I suppose although they neglected their duties they aren't hypocrites.

Another thought, if that cyclist had knocked down a pedestrian further down the road would they also have driven past, maybe depends how hungry they were?

cjcp

Yep, and RLJing and parasites (scooters) in bike lanes. They don't seem to give a flying...

invincible

they were probly just hungry :?

shouldbeinbed

I agree, pavement pricks simmer my bladder nicely too but in the global scheme of things it's not crime of the century and you don't know what they may have been tasked to be doing then other than KFC of course (we all gotta eat), they may have been officially off duty on lunch break but too far from the station to get back, eat and out on patrol again in a reasonable time.

how many drivers exceeding the speed limit or poking over a give way line (my real hate crime) do they see each shift? they can't pull every minor infringement over or there'd never be an officer on the street.

EKE_38BPM

Whilst stuck in traffic today in Vauxhall I asked a CHiPs if they ever nab people for being in the ASL? He said "Sometimes, but in the big scheme of things, today is not the day (His Paedophile protectorship was in town)."
I said today is the perfect day as there are loads of coppers around and loads of offenders. He said "Hmmmm" then the lights changed.

ASL infringment is a huge bug bear for me.

MadammeMarie

EKE_38BPM wrote:

(His Paedophile protectorship was in town)."

EKE_38BPM wrote:

ASL infringment is a huge bug bear for me.

Mine too! Waiting at lights today at London Bridge, bus creeps up next to me onto the ASL. Plenty of time to stop behind it. I pointed out to him that he shouldn't do that, he says "I know"! I dream of d-locks through windscreens! :evil:

turnerjohn

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Whilst stuck in traffic today in Vauxhall I asked a CHiPs if they ever nab people for being in the ASL? He said "Sometimes, but in the big scheme of things, today is not the day (His Paedophile protectorship was in town)."
I said today is the perfect day as there are loads of coppers around and loads of offenders. He said "Hmmmm" then the lights changed.

ASL infringment is a huge bug bear for me.

+1 couldnt have said it better myself !!!

spen666

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Whilst stuck in traffic today in Vauxhall I asked a CHiPs if they ever nab people for being in the ASL? He said "Sometimes, but in the big scheme of things, today is not the day (His Paedophile protectorship was in town)."
I said today is the perfect day as there are loads of coppers around and loads of offenders. He said "Hmmmm" then the lights changed.

ASL infringment is a huge bug bear for me.

I'm not sure the Californian Highways Patrol office has any jurisdiction in Vauxhall

toontra

On two occasions I've asked traffic cops about ASL infringement when I've been alongside them in ASL areas full of other vehicles (on one of those occasions a car was actually creeping forward over the lights).. Both times I was completely blanked. I can only presume they don't give a f**k - which makes you wonder why anyone bothers painting the lines there in the first place.

EKE_38BPM

Spen, I sometimes refer to police as 5-0. Doesn't mean I think they are from Hawaii.

Anyone seen the 3 wheel motor'bikes' some coppers in that area ride around on? Oh, the shame! Not as nippy as a bike, not as fast as a motorbike. The worst of both worlds.

Maybe you get assigned one of those as punishment.
"PC Smith, you have been found guilty of beating up suspects and I sentence you to two months riding a 3 wheeler"!

Andrew Brown

should be in bed, I agree we all have to eat and they may have been off duty, if so they could may be obey the laws they are meant to uphold and not take a short cut through town by driving down bus lane rather than using the long route that the rest of us use, this was also just around the corner from the station and that the directtion they were travelling from.

rf6

Who'd be a copper? When the old bill ticket people for riding on pavements, the "haven't you got anything better to do" threads start.

It seems that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. There aren't enough of them to enforce every law, therefore some things will be overlooked.

At the end of the day I think they make a good job of doing a hard job.

i_am_lono

I can confirm that at least two of Lothian's finest don't give a flying slippery sh*te when it comes to enforcing ASLs as I discovered the other day. I was passed by the plod on a major street in Edinburgh (in fact, where a cyclist was killed by a left-turning HGV not so long ago), about 50 metres from a set of lights. Lights change to amber, then red and plod pulls up in the ASL. There's two in the car (as well as a ned in the back) and the window's open as I pull alongside so let's have a blether, I thought. Kept it cordial, thinking the boys in blue aren't always in possession of a GSOH when you point out something they might have done wrong.

Me: Funny looking bike you've got there man
Plod:

---

Me: ASL's for bikes usually, and yours looks a lot like a car to me
Plod (staring at, or rather through me)

---

Me: Ehmm, don't you know the law?
Plod: (somewhat witheringly) The lights changed as I was approaching them
Me: Well, you had plenty of time to stop I reckon, I was right behind you
Plod:

---

(stare-off continues for about 25 seconds until lights change)
Me: Well, okay, have a lovely day! Byyyyeee!

FIN

A mate of mine's a cop, and I'm sure they have better things to do, but I put up with some rather creative ASL approaches in Edinburgh every day and it would have been nice to get some clarity on the issue from those in the, ahem, know.

prj45

The police are never going to enforce ASLs. As they are they are a useful tool that work most of the time (although there is a school of thought that says they encourage cyclists to filter dangerously to get to the front of the queue).

If police did start strictly enforcing the law surrounding ASLs a fair amount of cyclists would get done for crossing the first white line when the light was red (when you are supposed to use the filter lane, if indeed there is one!), it's certainly a law I break several times every day.

Seriously there are more important things to get angry about.

prj45

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Anyone seen the 3 wheel motor'bikes' some coppers in that area ride around on? Oh, the shame! Not as nippy as a bike, not as fast as a motorbike. The worst of both worlds.

I imagine the thinking behind them is that it massively reduces police causalities amongst the bike mounted lot.

i_am_lono

prj45 wrote:

Seriously there are more important things to get angry about.

It's not really a topic that angers me - more perplexes - and I agree that they're not going to do much about ASLs.

emotionless_softcore

I was meandering along Birdcage Walk a couple of hours ago; went to turn left into Horse Guards Road, police officer jumps out in front of me:

"Off the road please, on the pavement over there. You can still cycle"
"err...OK"

Perhaps it's a shared use path, I don't know. In any case I ended up shouldering the bike CX style and jogging for a bit, as I seemed to be spending more time trackstanding in the throngs than pavement cycling.

Weird atmosphere though, helicopters/drones buzzing over constantly, people & police everywhere.
I proceeded to get lost and ended up caught up in the Antipope protests on Whitehall. Seemed to mainly consist of bored looking indie kids moping around draped on street furniture from where I was (track) standing.

shouldbeinbed

Andrew Brown wrote:

should be in bed, I agree we all have to eat and they may have been off duty, if so they could may be obey the laws they are meant to uphold and not take a short cut through town by driving down bus lane rather than using the long route that the rest of us use, this was also just around the corner from the station and that the directtion they were travelling from.

I Agree, there should be no excuse to special treatment on the roads unless its an emergency, I assume the bus lane regs precluded them being there at that time but even if they've come from the staton they could hvave been eating on the hoof on their way for an engagement or appointment elsewhere.

BG2000

Andrew Brown wrote:

Whilst sat at traffic lights on my commute home tonight I was passed by a fellow cyclist riding along the pavement (really makes my p@&s boil!), even more annoying there was a police van in front of me both occupants of which ignored this blatant breach of the law. Having said that they had just driven down a bus lane to take a short cut on their way to KFC so I suppose although they neglected their duties they aren't hypocrites.

Another thought, if that cyclist had knocked down a pedestrian further down the road would they also have driven past, maybe depends how hungry they were?

I get this every day while commuting. I'm sitting at the lights, waiting, and there's always some idiot (usually full-sus or daft fixie person) goes up on the pavement, jumps the lights, only for me to catch them about 5 seconds later, or sometimes even before the end of the junction if I'm quick off the mark.

I don't get angry with 'em (not much, at least) and just use this as sprint training.

The other 'fun' thing to do, with sprinting off really quick is almost catch cars who've jumped the lights. It certainly scares them a bit when they see a bright light flying towards them. I'm not into protesting or anything, but I think it does get the message across sometimes, i.e. my way of say " stop being a prat and follow the highway code..."

Oh, and as for police, I see them ignoring cars jumping red lights almost every day, so they're not going to do anything about a cyclist on the pavement. And police vans never bother indicating when turning...

PBo

spen666 wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Whilst stuck in traffic today in Vauxhall I asked a CHiPs if they ever nab people for being in the ASL? He said "Sometimes, but in the big scheme of things, today is not the day (His Paedophile protectorship was in town)."
I said today is the perfect day as there are loads of coppers around and loads of offenders. He said "Hmmmm" then the lights changed.

ASL infringment is a huge bug bear for me.

I'm not sure the Californian Highways Patrol office has any jurisdiction in Vauxhall

Mithras

Cycling on the Pavement is against the law...OK, however guidance from the then home secratary did say it was not brought in to crimanlise every cyclist on a pavement. It is used to discourage people from cycling without any concern for other pavement users. I have never handed out a ticket for cycling on a pavement. I have for a lad cycling no handed whilst texting. Yes for two adults racingdown a pavement at school kicking out time and other similar events. Common Sense should prevail!
Now Ninja cyclists without lights, look out, my target (self imposed) on my little corner of Peterborough is 100 tickets between October and March.... No excuses, Zero Tolerance....Watch the complaints coming my way!

Anonymous

They do nab people for pavement cycling at times, but they seem to target particular areas where it happens a lot and is more of a risk than other places.

Don't know if anyone is familiar with the road works going on in Putney (may have finished now)? From the cross roads on the High Street going towards Richmond there is a good mile were you have to get off and walk you bike as the road is closed. They had a couple of bobbies standing at the end ready to bollock anyone who thought they could ride along the pavement.

They sometimes do the same with RLJ. On may way to work I've seen cops just past the traffic lights on the junction of the A24 and Ritherdon Road. It sometimes seems that no cyclists ever stop at those lights.

In a way this is quite sensible, targeting trouble spots. But maybe they should do it more often.

snailracer

Andrew Brown wrote:

Whilst sat at traffic lights on my commute home tonight I was passed by a fellow cyclist riding along the pavement (really makes my p@&s boil!), even more annoying there was a police van in front of me both occupants of which ignored this blatant breach of the law...

I think the police were doing what their guidelines tell them to do. Pavement cycling is actually not particularly dangerous and the police really do have more useful things to do.

Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter in 1999:
"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the John Crozier of the Home Office in 1994 with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by CSOs and wardens:
"The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice. I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16."

thelawnet

Some people are scared of the roads (and with good reason). Would you rather they were driving?

As long as they are being considerate to pedestrians, it's not the end of the world.

SmellTheGlove

BG2000 wrote:

The other 'fun' thing to do....

My favourite - numpty cyclist stops so far ahead of ASL that they're blind to the lights change; the comedy when the lights change and the swarm engulfs them.
Little things brighten my day, I admit!

Headhuunter

IME the Police DO stop cyclists who RLJ and ride on the pavement but they DON'T stop motorists who RLJ or sit in ASLs. They actually have crackdowns on cyclists RLJing but never on motorists.

I actually asked a PCSO who was on cyclist crackdown patrol a few weeks back. She and a couple of others were stopping cyclists who had RLJed. Whilst I understand they have a job to do I asked why they never seem to stop motorists in ASLs or motorists who RLJ. She actually said to me that it's impossible for them to stop cars when they're on foot. So basically cyclists are a soft, easy, revenue generating target and stopping cars involves too much effort.

Whilst I was talking to her a woman pedestrian actually jumped in to agree with me, saying that she never, ever sees the police bother motorists the way they do cyclists, especially in the City.

Headhuunter

SmellTheGlove wrote:

BG2000 wrote:

The other 'fun' thing to do....

My favourite - numpty cyclist stops so far ahead of ASL that they're blind to the lights change; the comedy when the lights change and the swarm engulfs them.
Little things brighten my day, I admit!

I do that, it;s not for reasons of speed or getting ahead of the "peleton" it's generally because the ASL is occupied by a bus or a couple of cabs and a moped or something. I'm not bothered about being "engulfed" (although usually I can easily outpace anyone behind me unless I miss clip the pedal), I'm more interested in being ahead of the traffic in an obvious spot and use of the ASL is impossible if "numpty" motorists are in it.

jds_1981

Headhuunter wrote:

I do that, it;s not for reasons of speed or getting ahead of the "peloton" it's generally because the ASL is occupied by a bus or a couple of cabs and a moped or something. I'm not bothered about being "engulfed" (although usually I can easily outpace anyone behind me unless I miss clip the pedal), I'm more interested in being ahead of the traffic in an obvious spot and use of the ASL is impossible if "numpty" motorists are in it.

I too will tend to go ahead of traffic parked in the ASL line. Never had a problem with seeing the lights (perhaps because I only go just ahead of the traffic.) Don't have a problem with being engulfed either

Back on topic though, I regularly enter the ASL box without following the cycle-lane. Indeed at least one on my way in doesn't have a cycle lane to get in to it, How bad a person does that make me?

W1

jds_1981 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I do that, it;s not for reasons of speed or getting ahead of the "peloton" it's generally because the ASL is occupied by a bus or a couple of cabs and a moped or something. I'm not bothered about being "engulfed" (although usually I can easily outpace anyone behind me unless I miss clip the pedal), I'm more interested in being ahead of the traffic in an obvious spot and use of the ASL is impossible if "numpty" motorists are in it.

I too will tend to go ahead of traffic parked in the ASL line. Never had a problem with seeing the lights (perhaps because I only go just ahead of the traffic.) Don't have a problem with being engulfed either

Back on topic though, I regularly enter the ASL box without following the cycle-lane. Indeed at least one on my way in doesn't have a cycle lane to get in to it, How bad a person does that make me?

Straight to hell.

If the ASL is full I tend to hang back rather than push through the lights to the front - I think it's safer to put myself in the middle of my lane a couple of cars from the front and then move over once I'm clear of the junction. It also means I'm already in a good position to overtake the cyclists who are moving off slowly or hugging the kerb, as I just maintain my lane position until I'm clear.

snailracer

Headhuunter wrote:

IME the Police DO stop cyclists who RLJ and ride on the pavement but they DON'T stop motorists who RLJ or sit in ASLs. They actually have crackdowns on cyclists RLJing but never on motorists.

I actually asked a PCSO who was on cyclist crackdown patrol a few weeks back. She and a couple of others were stopping cyclists who had RLJed. Whilst I understand they have a job to do I asked why they never seem to stop motorists in ASLs or motorists who RLJ. She actually said to me that it's impossible for them to stop cars when they're on foot. So basically cyclists are a soft, easy, revenue generating target and stopping cars involves too much effort.

Whilst I was talking to her a woman pedestrian actually jumped in to agree with me, saying that she never, ever sees the police bother motorists the way they do cyclists, especially in the City.

That's obviously nonsense, the real reason is that the car being stopped would block the lane - following traffic would blame the PCSOs for it and give them verbals.

I wonder what would happen if I an RLJer put out their kickstand and blocked the lane while they had their "chat" with the PCSO for pulling them up?

wulfhound

She actually said to me that it's impossible for them to stop cars when they're on foot. So basically cyclists are a soft, easy, revenue generating target and stopping cars involves too much effort.

Don't think it generates much revenue - takes them a while to write out a 20 quid ticket, they probably have to do more paperwork on it when they get back to base, and the overall cost of putting a real (non PCSO) copper on the street must be a fortune.

That said, have spoken to them in the City on a few occasions, they do apparently get a lot of complaints about bikes (presumably from impotent Daily Mail types, idfk), hence have to be seen to be 'doing something about it'. Which raises a couple of points..

.. what kind of a pointless, frustrated human d'you have to be to complain about behaviour which, for the most part, hurts nobody?

.. shouldn't we, as cyclists who stand a very real risk of getting hurt by motorists' idiotic and antisocial behaviour, be more forthright in lodging evidence of said with police? My impression is that they are pretty responsive to perceived public pressure - if they & councils start getting letters and calls complaining about driver behaviour, they might be more inclined to do something about it, even if only for the sake of 'being seen to be doing something'. We get so used to driver idiocy that we just chalk it up to experience and move on - I don't think the average copper is much aware of what we encounter on a daily basis.