Building trails on NT land?

hbrashaw

Me and some friends have built a short trail on some NT land, in a wooded area not that near any paths- the trail can't be seen from the path but riders can. It consists of a large berm- 3/4ft high and 25ft long, a (4ft high/ 5ft long gap) gap jump and some singletrack. What could the NT do if they caught us? Is it worth the risk?

Thank you

nicklouse

flatten it and do you for criminal damage. ( and maybe a few other things).

ilovedirt

Bad idea, not at all worth the risk.

stubs

Well done we already have enough trouble with National Trust hassling riders. The NT management are always looking for excuses to prevent us riding on NT land you and your mates just put another nail in the coffin. Give yourself a pat on the back.

cooldad

I've lived in quite a few countries, including SA and NZ, both outdoor sort of places, and none have had the free access to land and trails that we have here.
Stick to the legitimate places and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

jay12

cooldad wrote:

I've lived in quite a few countries, including SA and NZ, both outdoor sort of places, and none have had the free access to land and trails that we have here.
Stick to the legitimate places and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

+potato

spongtastic

stubs wrote:

Well done we already have enough trouble with National Trust hassling riders. The NT management are always looking for excuses to prevent us riding on NT land you and your mates just put another nail in the coffin. Give yourself a pat on the back.

^^ This.

I ride with a couple of guys from the NT, and we're all fed up with stupid twunts running around 'building' things and damaging the areas they're supposed to be conserving.

They have taken formal action which resulted in large fines and community service after a group of mongs built something similar 'where nobody could see' and destroyed a large group of rare plants. They were caught after one of them fell off and fractured his wrist and collarbone, and said mong even tried to sue the NT. And lost btw with costs awarded against.

Alex

It's difficult enough to get the NT to respect cyclist's access to bridleways and country paths without you giving them more stuff for the anti-cycling portfolio.

Building wildtrail on NT land is bad for cycling, bad for the environment that the NT are trying to keep intact for the nation, and bad for future trails in your area.

I know it sucks as you've put the work in, but you really ought to level it and move to a more appropriate site.

FC land is considered fair game for ground level trail. The less construction, the longer it'll last before being wiped. Common land is fair game, but don't impede other users.

Better still, talk to your local land managers about sensible sustainable trail.

shm_uk

Agree with all the comments so far...

NT land is private land, so you can't just go builiding trails all over it.

projectsome

hbrashaw wrote:

Me and some friends have built a short trail on some NT land, in a wooded area not that near any paths- the trail can't be seen from the path but riders can. It consists of a large berm- 3/4ft high and 25ft long, a (4ft high/ 5ft long gap) gap jump and some singletrack. What could the NT do if they caught us? Is it worth the risk?

Thank you

What did you do with the wildlife and their homes?

but I'd agree with the rest, you should have got permission first. We've lost one DH course and several parts of another trail because of unnoficial trail building....

Buckled_Rims

The NT are like a pack of Rottweilers as soon as someone does something like this. Don't forget they have their own profession legal staff who'll soon want you hung drawn and quartered as an example.

There's a reason why it's NT land, it might just be the rare flora you're just dug up :shock: No joking, even a small rare insect can stop any type of access on their land.

hubrashaw

interesting

just 4 the record i am hbrashaws bro

anyway on topic, thanks for the advice. There is no legitimate FR stuff around us and i was woundering whick land managment site is more approchable by montian bike riders. I konow that the FC are planting trees to be cut down and sold off. A better idea?

We are going to keep the jump but only if these group of riders who are mega rubbish stop building on our trail and making it realy crap. eg two stage lip ECT. However these are the sort of people that go aroud nailing pallets to trees and that is north shore. So we will probalby move.

There is alot of FC land around us, as i touched on earlier, a better idea?

andyrm

Get permission from the landowner. I've seen first hand how illegal trailbuilding by amateurs, with poor construction, has caused accidents and near misses with pedestrians. As a result, an area that has enjoyed "blind eye" treatment by locals towards MTBs for over 15 years is now lost.

hubrashaw

We know that it is easy to make a fullly insured legel club with the CTC providing you have the land. As i said eariler there is a lot of FC land around us, would this be a better idea?

andyrm

What you should be doing is putting together a decent proposal and presenting it to the FC or other suitable landowner. Talk about things like how you will be maintaining the trails, safety, insurance/liability, what the benefits to them are of you using their land (after all, what's in it for them?) and so on.

stumpyjon

FC land is considered fair game for ground level trail. The less construction, the longer it'll last before being wiped. Common land is fair game, but don't impede other users.

No it's not. It's all still all private land. We do have some access rights to FC land but technically only the fireroads and other designated access routes like the trail centre routes. There's still rare plants, sensitive areas and conservation management going on in the FC forests. Building on any land without the land owners permission is wrong and pretty much all land is owned by someone. It's also a very fine line between clearing back a bit of under growth to open up a cheeky trail and full on building / vandalism.

There's plenty of sanctionned trail building groups out there desperate for help.

Foobies

hubrashaw wrote:

interesting

just 4 the record i am hbrashaws bro

stupid parents gave us the same intiails, Hugh and Hugo for the book

Nice one, youve built an illegal trail on NT land then gone and made your names known on the internets! Clever! neway, speak to local farmers too. theres aload of farms down my way that have woods that they dont use but do own. as they cant chop down the trees or plant grain/cows they might let people build trails? just MAKE SURE YOU SPEAK TO THE LAND OWNER FIRST! especially if its a Farm, as farmers have shot guns that go killykillybangbang

Alex

There are places to build and places not to build. It's fairly easy to spot whether you're in a conservation zone on FC land, or in a plantation. Believe me when I say that a mountainbike trail is the least of the wildlife's worries in a plantation.

Wildtrail is considered a nuisance by the Forestry from a liability and time consumption point of view as they are required to inspect and take action depending upon the severity of the trail. A trail full of timber may call for immediate remedial action with a chainsaw, a trail that's just scraped in calls for nothing more than a mark on a map and a note to re-inspect down the line, and to ensure the forwarder thoroughly trashes it on the next thinning cycle.

Most times, the Volunteer trailbuilding groups like the Glentress Trail Pixies are made up from the same people who have been building wildtrail for years. It's where the art's perfected.

There are very few people who are actually capable of building a trail. Most will draw a line in the mud and call it a trail, some will scrape some twigs and berries into a corner and call it a trail, and then there's the special few who actually take the time to really build. They are few and far between (and of those there are some who still can't actually build fun trail).

Those few people who can build and can build good trail are the ones we depend on to keep our rides fun when we don't visit a bike ghetto like Coed Llandegla, and they're the ones that make sure when we do visit one, it's designed by a mountainbiker. If you're really lucky, you'll get to see real handbuilt trail.

So, in one of the most confusing messages I'm ever going to send, Gerroff the NT land, get in a forest and get building. Because if folks don't learn build then all of tomorrow's trailcentres are going to be built by civil engineers with diggers and tight trail will die a death.

hubrashaw

AFter a consultaion we have decided to flatten the trail. WE o not want any toruble with the Nt or cause any trouble wiht them. IF the other group of riders build there FINE but we will have nothing to do with it.

all that work

however it is all for the best, next job a legel site

but knowing land owners :roll:

cooldad

Small point, but if you do decide to put a proper proposal together, use a spell checker.

stumpyjon

hubrashaw wrote:

AFter a consultaion we have decided to flatten the trail. WE o not want any toruble with the Nt or cause any trouble wiht them.

Good call.

tarquin_foxglove

Foobies wrote:

as farmers have shot guns that go killykillybangbang

But only just.

The muzzle velocity of a shotgun is 370-400 metres per second, the speed of sound is 343 m/s. At 25 metres you'd have 11milliseconds between pellet & bang.

I'm available for parties, bah mitzvahs etc.

Herbie The Dog

tarquin_foxglove wrote:

Foobies wrote:

as farmers have shot guns that go killykillybangbang

But only just.

The muzzle velocity of a shotgun is 370-400 metres per second, the speed of sound is 343 m/s. At 25 metres you'd have 11milliseconds between pellet & bang.

I'm available for parties, bah mitzvahs etc.

More than enough time if I was on the bike ;-)

Anonymous

Whether it's NT land, FC land, private or public access land, common land, MOD land or whatever, DON'T do it without seeking permission from the land owner (and yes, common land can still be owned by someone).

Seek out the local ranger or whoever and have a chat with them. If you get on their right side they'll be only too happy to help out and advise where you can and can't do things, and what is safe, and where they may be doing work or conservation. No they won't be happy with suicidal death jumps that can land them in court when someone sues.

Or find the local trail building groups who probably have already had these conversations, and have a group of volunteers who can help you (plus maybe even some funds and tools).

If you want free reign to do what you want, buy some land and set up a private course.



And bear in mind if it's a trail people ride often and you go stick a jump in there they aren't expecting, you could end up injuring or killing them. Someone did that on BKB in the Surrey Hills, and whilst I don't think anyone got injured, it then involved much time and effort to restore the trail as the jump was not only dangerous but damaged the bank which would have caused further damage to the trail. Given that one in particular was built (with significant funding) by professionals who know what they are doing, it's all the more annoying to have some punk kids go mess up the work just to stick in what they think is a cool jump.

hbrashaw

thanks for the advice guys. i might buy my brother hugo (i'm harry) a dictionary. he is, as the french would say, 'un petit retard'.
We have flattened the trail now, and put everything, as much as we can, back where we found it

Briggo

hbrashaw wrote:

Me and some friends have built a short trail on some NT land, in a wooded area not that near any paths- the trail can't be seen from the path but riders can. It consists of a large berm- 3/4ft high and 25ft long, a (4ft high/ 5ft long gap) gap jump and some singletrack. What could the NT do if they caught us? Is it worth the risk?

Thank you

Troll.

TheNorthernTrain

hbrashaw wrote:

thanks for the advice guys. i might buy my brother hugo (i'm harry) a dictionary. he is, as the french would say, 'un petit retard'.
We have flattened the trail now, and put everything, as much as we can, back where we found it

he is a small late? Perhaps you need to buy a french dictionary!

cat_with_no_tail

north-sure wrote:

hbrashaw wrote:

thanks for the advice guys. i might buy my brother hugo (i'm harry) a dictionary. he is, as the french would say, 'un petit retard'.
We have flattened the trail now, and put everything, as much as we can, back where we found it

he is a small late? Perhaps you need to buy a french dictionary!

hbrashaw

or 'a little slow'