Mens vs Womens Bikes

Bappio

I was just wondering what are the main differences between mens and womens bikes. And do women tend to womens or mens bikes?

I ask because I am looking at getting a bike for my gf and just wondered what the difference was.

Thanks in advance!

softlad

the main differences are shorter top tubes and the inclusion of many patronisingly-female colours, like pink or purple...

pneumatic

wot he sed ^

Women have different geometry to men (shorter legs, longer bodies) so their bikes should have different geometry too.

The cheapest and lowest spec of my four bikes is the one the women in my family like best. Why? Because it is a nice bright colour! :roll:

jibberjim

pneumatic wrote:

Women have different geometry to men (shorter legs, longer bodies) so their bikes should have different geometry too.

I like that you got that right (that on average a UK woman has shorter legs relative to body than the average UK man) as most people believe the opposite to what the studies show. But then why are the womens bikes made the other way around with shorter top tubes despite the longer bodies?

There's more variation within individuals, and within populations than there is between men and women, so there's more reason to have bikes for different ethnic groups than there is male/female.

Generally it's marketing, and whilst it's true they do have shorter top tube, it's because of a belief that women want a more relaxed geometry because they're not as serious cyclists.

leedsmjh

I ride women's bikes, and only one is pink(ish)!
You'll also find the shorter top-tube, longer head-tube scenario on many sportive-type bikes - for some manufacturers the geometry is the same for their women's and sportive models.

Most women's model will have narrower handlebars and a women's saddle too, though a nice LBS may well be willing to swap these.

I'd advise getting your gf to try out different handlebar shapes and shifters as reach to levers and operating brakes from the hoods can be problematic with smaller hands (if she has them of course). I like FSA Compact bars and SRAM; or if she wants a deeper drop consider something with a D-shape like the cinelli little wing.

pneumatic

jibberjim wrote:

pneumatic wrote:

Women have different geometry to men (shorter legs, longer bodies) so their bikes should have different geometry too.

There's more variation within individuals, and within populations than there is between men and women, so there's more reason to have bikes for different ethnic groups than there is male/female.

Sounds like an excellent reason for taking the trouble to use a professional bike fitting service. Even if you end up buying the nearest thing available off the peg, it has to be worth tailoring your bike to your individual shape.

stannie

jibberjim wrote:

pneumatic wrote:

Women have different geometry to men (shorter legs, longer bodies) so their bikes should have different geometry too.

I like that you got that right (that on average a UK woman has shorter legs relative to body than the average UK man) as most people believe the opposite to what the studies show. But then why are the womens bikes made the other way around with shorter top tubes despite the longer bodies?

There's more variation within individuals, and within populations than there is between men and women, so there's more reason to have bikes for different ethnic groups than there is male/female.

Generally it's marketing, and whilst it's true they do have shorter top tube, it's because of a belief that women want a more relaxed geometry because they're not as serious cyclists.

Do you have any info on the studies that show this - I find it hard to believe that ladies have shorter legs in comparison to their torseaux. I know it is definitely not true in my household.

Bappio, get the bike that fits best, whether it is ladies or mens, but make sure you get her a ladies saddle and shorts too!

jibberjim

singletrackanne wrote:

Do you have any info on the studies that show this - I find it hard to believe that ladies have shorter legs in comparison to their torseaux. I know it is definitely not true in my household.

As I said there's more variation in groups, whilst it's true for many groups, it's not true for others. The study I referenced was for young adults in the south east of england. I believe it was in this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1203 ... t=Abstract but I do not have access here to confirm. The differences don't apply for other groups necessarily, there's big differences between groups too Sub-saharan africans particularly long legs, northern europeans shorter.

singletrackanne wrote:

Bappio, get the bike that fits best, whether it is ladies or mens, but make sure you get her a ladies saddle and shorts too!

Yep! Remember you can add shims to all shimano levers costing a few quid to make them short reach, don't be suckered into a big WSD premium for that, and changing handlebars / stems / saddles etc. should be something any shop should be happy to do or is pretty cheap to do your self.

sheffsimon

singletrackanne wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

pneumatic wrote:

Women have different geometry to men (shorter legs, longer bodies) so their bikes should have different geometry too.

I like that you got that right (that on average a UK woman has shorter legs relative to body than the average UK man) as most people believe the opposite to what the studies show. But then why are the womens bikes made the other way around with shorter top tubes despite the longer bodies?

There's more variation within individuals, and within populations than there is between men and women, so there's more reason to have bikes for different ethnic groups than there is male/female.

Generally it's marketing, and whilst it's true they do have shorter top tube, it's because of a belief that women want a more relaxed geometry because they're not as serious cyclists.

Do you have any info on the studies that show this - I find it hard to believe that ladies have shorter legs in comparison to their torseaux. I know it is definitely not true in my household.

Bappio, get the bike that fits best, whether it is ladies or mens, but make sure you get her a ladies saddle and shorts too!

+ some tassels for the bar ends.

irturner

So pink road bikes are for women ?
No threads on this forum with straight men slavering over road bikes with a large amount of pink in them ?

pneumatic

irturner wrote:

So pink road bikes are for women ?
No threads on this forum with straight men slavering over road bikes with a large amount of pink in them ?

Here's my heterosexual fixie:



all I can say is: phwoooaaar!! get a load of that, guys!!!

Ands

singletrackanne wrote:

Do you have any info on the studies that show this - I find it hard to believe that ladies have shorter legs in comparison to their torseaux. I know it is definitely not true in my household.

Bappio, get the bike that fits best, whether it is ladies or mens, but make sure you get her a ladies saddle and shorts too!

I was reading an article on the Cervelo website a while ago which addressed an often-asked question - why don't Cervelo make women's specific bikes. Their response was that all their bikes are suited to women because there is nothing fundamentally different between men and women that would mean that women need a different geometry.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/bikes/women/

Anonymous

Ands wrote:

singletrackanne wrote:

Do you have any info on the studies that show this - I find it hard to believe that ladies have shorter legs in comparison to their torseaux. I know it is definitely not true in my household.

Bappio, get the bike that fits best, whether it is ladies or mens, but make sure you get her a ladies saddle and shorts too!

I was reading an article on the Cervelo website a while ago which addressed an often-asked question - why don't Cervelo make women's specific bikes. Their response was that all their bikes are suited to women because there is nothing fundamentally different between men and women that would mean that women need a different geometry.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/bikes/women/

Apart from the fact you would try out loads of bikes and go back and buy the first one you tried.

I'll get me coat.

Ands

dmclite wrote:

Apart from the fact you would try out loads of bikes and go back and buy the first one you tried.

I'll get me coat.

Ahem! I think you will find that male cyclists take shopping dilemmas to a whole new level (Campag or Shimano?...Assos or Rapha?....Carbon or Alloy?....Turbo or Rollers?....Red bar end plugs that no-one notices or black ones?....)

Anonymous

Ands wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Apart from the fact you would try out loads of bikes and go back and buy the first one you tried.

I'll get me coat.

Ahem! I think you will find that male cyclists take shopping dilemmas to a whole new level (Campag or Shimano?...Assos or Rapha?....Carbon or Alloy?....Turbo or Rollers?....Red bar end plugs that no-one notices or black ones?....)

Touche'

I am guilty of being a shopping bike-tart. I be rumbled.

Velonutter

My daughter is 5ft 6 (She's 25 as well) and I built her her first road bike and used what components I had in and just listened to what felt right and watched her ride.

Although her first bike, I used a 52cm Ribble training frame, I bought a charge Ladle female saddle and made sure that the stem was the right length for her reach (9cm), just by watching and observing, a lot of the initial problems weren't the bike fit, but her getting used to a road bike, for instance, she still doesn't like taking her hands off the bars to indicate and she doesn't like climbing out of the saddle, but she is slowly progressing with help from the club coaches.

Currently she is up to 45 mile rides twice a week and a couple of turbo/roller session in between and has never suffered any form of ache or pains, maybe ladies do have longer legs and shorter bodies, but with a little thought and a good ear most bikes can be made to fit.

When she has progressed enough to justify a new bike, then we'll get her measured up at my LBS, it's really just commonsense and patience.

Mister W

jibberjim wrote:

singletrackanne wrote:

Do you have any info on the studies that show this - I find it hard to believe that ladies have shorter legs in comparison to their torseaux. I know it is definitely not true in my household.

As I said there's more variation in groups, whilst it's true for many groups, it's not true for others. The study I referenced was for young adults in the south east of england. I believe it was in this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1203 ... t=Abstract but I do not have access here to confirm. The differences don't apply for other groups necessarily, there's big differences between groups too Sub-saharan africans particularly long legs, northern europeans shorter.

singletrackanne wrote:

Bappio, get the bike that fits best, whether it is ladies or mens, but make sure you get her a ladies saddle and shorts too!

Yep! Remember you can add shims to all shimano levers costing a few quid to make them short reach, don't be suckered into a big WSD premium for that, and changing handlebars / stems / saddles etc. should be something any shop should be happy to do or is pretty cheap to do your self.

jibberjim, that study looks at body proportions for children so doesn't give any information about body proportions in adults. Do you have another study? Your assertion feels instinctively wrong as most of the women I know well enough to ask have proportionally longer legs than me but I know instincts prove nothing.

Mister W

Scrap that request, jibberjim, I've found the full text of that paper and it goes up to age 19 so you can look at the top of the charts to see what the proportions are in adults.

I've also spotted the problem with trying to use their figures to assert body proportions in terms of cycling. They calculate the height/leg length ratios using the sitting height rather than the actual height so there are factors that could be affecting the figures. For example, do women have longer/short upper legs (which would affect the ratios).

jibberjim

Mister W wrote:

Scrap that request, jibberjim, I've found the full text of that paper and it goes up to age 19 so you can look at the top of the charts to see what the proportions are in adults.

Glad my memory was right

Mister W wrote:

For example, do women have longer/short upper legs (which would affect the ratios).

They would need to be very long and noticeably odd proportioned to make up for the difference wouldn't they? But yes, I agree it's not ideal, I more wanted to show that there's not a simple difference about the legs/height ratio that applies to everyone male and female, there's a big range all around.

rolf_f

leedsmjh wrote:

I like FSA Compact bars and SRAM

With pink hoods of course

leedsmjh

Rolf F wrote:

leedsmjh wrote:

I like FSA Compact bars and SRAM

With pink hoods of course

well naturally ...

bice

One other thing about women's bikes is that they are much cheaper second hand.

I am on my second mixte frame commuter, for which I paid £27. I have also been given three women's bikes - all steel, two hybrids, one tourer - from office car park as owners have abandoned them.

If you are, say, under 5.8-5.10, a woman's bike can be a bargain. Unlike bloke's bikes, they haven't been trashed.

jibberjim

bice wrote:

A woman's bike can be a bargain. Unlike bloke's bikes, they haven't been trashed.

Surely that depends on the woman!

bice

jibberjim wrote:

bice wrote:

A woman's bike can be a bargain. Unlike bloke's bikes, they haven't been trashed.

Surely that depends on the woman!

Not in my now quite extensive experience of picking up cheap or free women's bikes - including a discarded Pashley at the tip. The bikes tend to be neglected rather than outright trashed. My favourite mixte, reynolds 531 frame commuter had been dumped by the air conditioning unit in the office car park for about three years gathering crud. It just needed a thorough clean and air in the tyres.

balthazar

Ands wrote:

I was reading an article on the Cervelo website a while ago which addressed an often-asked question - why don't Cervelo make women's specific bikes. Their response was that all their bikes are suited to women because there is nothing fundamentally different between men and women that would mean that women need a different geometry.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/bikes/women/

From that page:

" Yes, on average women are statistically shorter than men. But no, small women are not proportionally different from small men. And likewise, tall women do not have much different body proportions than tall men. This is what the numbers clearly say."

Without references, that is empty rhetoric. Which numbers – and where? So, they they think the matter important enough to publish these comments, but not to disclose their source?

"Jibberjim" has at least cited an abstract of such a study, which is unclear in abstract. Mister W – despite your caveats, what is the conclusion of the paper?. I have no prejudice either way, but it's an interesting matter, with consequences for the bike industry.