When Indicating to turn right...

TwistedSpirit
TwistedSpirit Posts: 79
edited September 2010 in The bottom bracket
How much time should you give?
Was cycling to work on friday and needed to pop into the shop on the other side of the road.

I looked behind me road was clear, stuck my arm out for to indicate my intentions, cycled forwards arm still out, road clear ahead, instinctively looked behind before turning only to be overtaken by a Van...

Edited to add the fact that i did look, signal, maneuver and not signal first.

Comments

  • 37monkey
    37monkey Posts: 141
    Hence the name "Lifesaver Look"
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    I was overtaken in similar circumstances by WVM the other day. While already in the middle of the road and just about to turn. With my 6 month old daughter in the bike seat.
  • TwistedSpirit
    TwistedSpirit Posts: 79
    It must of unnerved me slightly because when i got home I forgot to unclip and crashed into my gate =/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    As much time as is reasonable.

    Just be aware that people can be rubbish.
    _
  • timb64
    timb64 Posts: 248
    One word --Mirror!! :wink:
  • Sirius631
    Sirius631 Posts: 991
    'Look, signal, manouver', not 'signal, look and be surprised'. When you signal you should already know how much time you have before the next vehicle is upon you. Most riders do not check behind anywhere nearly as often as they should. You should do one check well ahead of you turn, to assess general traffic conditions. Check again before signalling. Your signal should last long enough for those around you to understand your intentions.
    To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.
  • pb21
    pb21 Posts: 2,171
    What annoys me is when I look behind, see that a car is coming but is sufficiently behind me so that when I signal they will have time to react. Then signal, slow down take another look only to see that they have continued on with no regard for myself meaning I have to basically stop.

    :evil:
    Mañana
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    I think we've all been there.

    A couple of years ago I was returning home from a ride, looked over my shoulder saw a car there, but he wasn't looking ot get by. Indicated, looked again and was just about to start turning when I heard him shift up and boot the accelarator. I jusr couldn't understand why he thought that was a good time, but then I saw he had a convertable BMW so all bets were off.

    I hope he enjoyed cleaning teh purple PSP off his white leather seats.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • DaSy
    DaSy Posts: 599
    Sirius631 has it spot on as far as I'm concerned.

    You need to look first, as this not only warns any traffic that you intend to do 'something', but also lets you know if you need to indicate. There's no need to indicate at all if nothing is coming to indicate to, it's safer to have you hands on the bars when executing the maneuver.

    If you see a van bearing down on you, you know to slow up and let it pass before pulling out, it may not be the fairest to have to let it pass, but it certainly will be the safest.
    Complicating matters since 1965
  • soy_sauce
    soy_sauce Posts: 987
    that what i do.

    [30 yards to the turn] Look, signal, move to the middle of the lane
    [10 yards to the turn] Look, signal, move toward the right side of the lane
    [when time to turn] Look, signal, manouver
    "It is not impossible, its just improbable"

    Specialized Rockhopper Pro Disc 08
  • whyamihere
    whyamihere Posts: 7,715
    On a busy road, I will generally switch to mostly looking back with just a few looks forward. I make sure that I have looked into the eyes of the driver behind me while making the right turn signal, making absolutely sure they've seen me, and also make sure that I'm looking at them while moving across the lane. I still look ahead enough to adjust to changing road conditions, but this method makes absolutely sure I know that the driver behind me is going to stay behind me until after I've made the turn.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    whyamihere wrote:
    On a busy road, I will generally switch to mostly looking back with just a few looks forward. I make sure that I have looked into the eyes of the driver behind me while making the right turn signal, making absolutely sure they've seen me, and also make sure that I'm looking at them while moving across the lane. I still look ahead enough to adjust to changing road conditions, but this method makes absolutely sure I know that the driver behind me is going to stay behind me until after I've made the turn.
    My point is that I did all that. He could have gone straight on on my left, there was plenty of space.
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    Many drivers are to55ers and as unfair as it is on a bike you either have to just get out the way why the cars go past or be extra careful that each driver has seen you, especialyl when turning right.

    I tend to look behind, if it's safe stick my arm out, move right over to the right hand side of my lane so any cars can't attempt the overtake and then make the turn. If on my first look there's a car coming up fast behind me I just pull over and stop to let them go, it's not worth the risk.
  • Skeltron
    Skeltron Posts: 72
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    As much time as is reasonable.

    Just be aware that people can be rubbish.

    Best answer
  • ellie.velo
    ellie.velo Posts: 33
    soy_sauce wrote:
    that what i do.

    [30 yards to the turn] Look, signal, move to the middle of the lane
    [10 yards to the turn] Look, signal, move toward the right side of the lane
    [when time to turn] Look, signal, manouver

    Ditto
  • TwistedSpirit
    TwistedSpirit Posts: 79
    I've taken to walking to work now anyway. Its only 1.2 miles away so sometimes there is no point putting on my shoes and clipping in. But it is also uncomfortable on my spds and work shoes so walking seems to be the best bet!
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Some of you seem to have swallowed a manual of some sort ... **8 yards this and 10 yards that.. sticking yur arm out like a verger on way to bell ringing practice..

    al you need is an attitude of one p1ssed off roadie when you eyeball backwards.
  • deptfordmarmoset
    deptfordmarmoset Posts: 3,118
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Many drivers are to55ers and as unfair as it is on a bike you either have to just get out the way why the cars go past or be extra careful that each driver has seen you, especialyl when turning right.

    I tend to look behind, if it's safe stick my arm out, move right over to the right hand side of my lane so any cars can't attempt the overtake and then make the turn. If on my first look there's a car coming up fast behind me I just pull over and stop to let them go, it's not worth the risk.

    Me too, I occasionally find myself stranded at the kerb and waiting for traffic to pass before I do the manoeuvre, when several look-backs haven't engaged the oncoming drivers' attention or when I'm cycling much more slowly than the passing traffic (typically on hills).

    I then sometimes think ''If only I'd been a bit more assertive...'' but I usually end up counting how many intact limbs I have. I'm still counting up to four so my technique has worked so far.
    Looking for a cycling buddy?
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    I hate turning right, or coming up to a roundabout and indicated to go into the right lane or middle lane. I'm looking behind me, cars are coming up the back, I expect them to come past me as I've not indicated yet, and I don't indicate yet as they're coming up too fast, they then sit behind me, probably confused, I just want them to get a move on, but no. So 10 seconds later I indicate, but it's something I hate and try to avoid roads where I need to turn right.
  • HebdenBiker
    HebdenBiker Posts: 787
    freehub wrote:
    I hate turning right, or coming up to a roundabout and indicated to go into the right lane or middle lane. I'm looking behind me, cars are coming up the back, I expect them to come past me as I've not indicated yet, and I don't indicate yet as they're coming up too fast, they then sit behind me, probably confused, I just want them to get a move on, but no. So 10 seconds later I indicate, but it's something I hate and try to avoid roads where I need to turn right.

    When drivers see you look, they often anticipate you're about to perform a manoeuvre, and hang back. Signal, move, wave thanks, continue on your way. Claim your space on the road. Be assertive and clear. Drivers prefer it when they know what you're going to do and (usually) show you more consideration. There are still some dangerous, arrogant pr!cks out there though, who will show you no respect whatever you do.
    I just want them to get a move on

    Then either signal your intentions and manoeuvre, or else wave them through. Take control.
    My Blog
  • straas
    straas Posts: 338
    Pretty much the exact thing in the op happened to me, though rather than overtaking me he managed to wait until I was in the lane and run me over.

    It seems like a lot of drivers see a cyclist indicate, then accelerate like mad to try and clear them, lest the cyclist hold them up for a few seconds. Though I suppose they'd do it to cars aswell if they could get away with it!
    FCN: 6
  • beverick
    beverick Posts: 3,461
    There's no set rules on when to signal but, generally, you shoud consider:
    - Whether you need to give a signal at all (ie whether anyone will benefit from your intended signal);
    - Whether it is safe to give a signal (ie can you let go of the handlebars for sufficient time to give a meaningful signal); and
    - What signal you need to give. In some cases changing position in relation to other road users may be sufficient as may be a nob of your head or even shouting an instruction.

    Having decided that the answer to the above questions is "yes", decide how soon before your intended manoevre you should give your signal to ensure that:
    - The signal is unambiguous;
    - The intended recipients have time and sufficient view to see it before you begin to change course;
    - You have sufficient time to confirm that other relevant road-users are responding to your signal as you intend (ie slow down, give you space etc) before your intended manoevre;
    - You have sufficient time (and space) to reinforce the signal should the intended recipents fail to react; and
    - You have sufficient time (and space) to take avoiding action should the intended recipients fail to react, or react in a way you didn't anticipate or conditions change.

    Bob
  • the_hundredth_idiot
    the_hundredth_idiot Posts: 813
    pb21 wrote:
    What annoys me is when I look behind, see that a car is coming but is sufficiently behind me so that when I signal they will have time to react. Then signal, slow down take another look only to see that they have continued on with no regard for myself meaning I have to basically stop.

    :evil:
    Exactly what I had the other day. Most irritating thing was that it was as we were coming up to a set of lights from the down-stroke of a T-junction - and the lights were at red. I'm indicating to turn right and had already pulled out of the cycle lane into the main lane and was continuing to move right to the right lane. I knew the BMW 7-series was behind me and getting closer. I did a "lifesaver" and had to swerve back into the cycle lane as he was coming past despite the red light 25 yards ahead.

    As he then stops in traffic, I cycle past on the inside, pull in front of him to get into the right hand lane and say "prat" and shake my head as I look at him. Next thing I know, his window is down and he's shouting at me. I pointed out that overtaking me at that point was completely pointless unnecessary; his response was, "I didn't overtake you, I didn't even notice you."

    I've got the video footage from my handlebar cam - but the sound isn't great (you can make out his "didn't notice you" comment) and the video is rubbish as it's pointing forward.

    :evil:
    Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.
  • Ollieda
    Ollieda Posts: 1,010
    Similar to will, i find an annoying thing is when I give a look early on and the car behind slows down and hugs my rear wheel waiting for me to move - ok so at this point their fine and i appreciate it but then some drivers, when they actually see my signal to turn right, they suddenly think I'm going to hold them up loads and when they see the turn approaching they have a now or never moment and speed forwards and stop me from turning which means I have to stop in the road.

    Well done driver, you've saved 5 seconds or less off your journey time and you've managed to anger a load more motorists behind you.

    I doubt we'll ever get to a point where non cycling drivers really understand how to deal with cyclists on the roads!
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    The Hundredth Idiot wrote:
    I've got the video footage from my handlebar cam - but the sound isn't great (you can make out his "didn't notice you" comment) and the video is rubbish as it's pointing forward.

    :evil:

    You should point out the camera, they either get out and try to steal it or apologise :P
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Eurobunneh - My Youtube channel.
  • ConsciousPilot
    ConsciousPilot Posts: 117
    Saw a bit of "defensive" driving yesterday. Car overtook me approaching traffic lights on red, then pulled right over to the left hand curb and proceeded to stop on the green section marked for bikes. Obviously didn't want me in front of him so just stayed behind
    2 Wheels or not 2 wheels..That is not in question.

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