Vague question! Can you fit classic frame with modern gear?
themightyw
Posts: 409
Hi folks
Excuse my utter, utter ignorance but I am (for very personal reasons) considering buying a 1970s steel frame as I recently discovered that a relative of mine was a relatively well known frame builder.
However I haven't got the first bit of experience with older bikes, having only got into cycling in the last 2 years.
My hope is to be able to buy one of my relatives frames (preferably a touring style frame) and rebuild it into a bike that I will use regularly. Sorry if it sound crass, but it's only really the frame I'm interested, not fitting it with parts that would be appropriate to the time when it was made.
My question is this... is it reasonable to hope to buy a 30ish year old frame (perhaps an old 531 touring frame) but build it up with relatively modern equipment? I'm assuming that some things will certainly have changed - e.g. bottom brackets, but that in general the frame should be able to accept most modern parts? Are brake, gear and dropout fittings still pretty much compatible with modern gear? Would modern seatposts, headsets etc still be compatible within reason?
Any vague answers to my vague question hugely appreciated!
TMW
Excuse my utter, utter ignorance but I am (for very personal reasons) considering buying a 1970s steel frame as I recently discovered that a relative of mine was a relatively well known frame builder.
However I haven't got the first bit of experience with older bikes, having only got into cycling in the last 2 years.
My hope is to be able to buy one of my relatives frames (preferably a touring style frame) and rebuild it into a bike that I will use regularly. Sorry if it sound crass, but it's only really the frame I'm interested, not fitting it with parts that would be appropriate to the time when it was made.
My question is this... is it reasonable to hope to buy a 30ish year old frame (perhaps an old 531 touring frame) but build it up with relatively modern equipment? I'm assuming that some things will certainly have changed - e.g. bottom brackets, but that in general the frame should be able to accept most modern parts? Are brake, gear and dropout fittings still pretty much compatible with modern gear? Would modern seatposts, headsets etc still be compatible within reason?
Any vague answers to my vague question hugely appreciated!
TMW
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Comments
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It shouldn't be a problem. You will probably have to have the rear dropouts spread and aligned to fit the wider 130mm or 135mm newer hubs as yours is most likely too narrow now, an easy fix. Most likely you'll have a modern english thread BB since you say it was built by a relative, unless your relative is French or Italian of course. Headsets should be no problem. Probably a 1" threaded, although you'll need to measure your fork crown to get the proper bearing race size or the crown can be machined down if needed. Brakes may need to be what are called long reach meaning the caliper arms are slightly longer than the current standard brakes fitted to most road bikes and again should be easy to find since they are still used for many bikes that use mudguards. There are plenty of seatpost sizes available to fit. Do you know what diameter your seatpost is now? You may run into a slight problem or two fitting everything but there shouldn't be a anything that can't be easily fixed. I've probably forgotten something but I'm sure others will chime in.0
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Wow, what a absolutely fantastic response! I am hugely grateful. I don't have a specific frame yet, as I am still keeping my eye on them and waiting for the right one to come along, but wanted to know if it was feasible to do what I was hoping to do - I.e not a restoration project but conversion into a modern daily ride. Thank you!0
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Entirely feasible and, in fact, very intriguing...who was your relative if it's not too nosey? I have a mate with an old Hetchins with the very fancy Magnum Bonu,m lugs and modern groupset. It's a cracker.0
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/36755331@N ... otostream/
Here is a pic of my Quinn circa 1985. I have stripped it down and rebuilt it, but as i love the ride so much im going to fit an Ultegra SL groupset. The rear dropout can be forced to for the modern wheel spacing as the rear triangle is very slim. Dunno how easy a puncture change at the side of the road will be in winter, but ill cross that bridge when I come to it.
I didnt want to re-set the frame as I would like to rebuild it with the original components if required.0 -
ynyswen24 wrote:Entirely feasible and, in fact, very intriguing...who was your relative if it's not too nosey? I have a mate with an old Hetchins with the very fancy Magnum Bonu,m lugs and modern groupset. It's a cracker.
Funnily enough my relatives were Harry and Jack Quinn
One of my earliest memories is Harry coming over first thing on Christmas morning to drop off my older brother's first bike when we were tiny wee lads. I only found out a couple of months ago that they were related to me (Great Uncles) and only a couple of weeks ago that it was Harry who dropped off that bike.0 -
themightyw wrote:ynyswen24 wrote:Entirely feasible and, in fact, very intriguing...who was your relative if it's not too nosey? I have a mate with an old Hetchins with the very fancy Magnum Bonu,m lugs and modern groupset. It's a cracker.
Funnily enough my relatives were Harry and Jack Quinn
One of my earliest memories is Harry coming over first thing on Christmas morning to drop off my older brother's first bike when we were tiny wee lads. I only found out a couple of months ago that they were related to me (Great Uncles) and only a couple of weeks ago that it was Harry who dropped off that bike.
They moved to St Florence in Pembrokeshire, about 60miles from here and I still wish I'd been able to do one of the framebuilding courses they used to run. Lovely bikes.0 -
Stellite wrote:
Here is a pic of my Quinn circa 1985. I have stripped it down and rebuilt it, but as i love the ride so much im going to fit an Ultegra SL groupset. The rear dropout can be forced to for the modern wheel spacing as the rear triangle is very slim. Dunno how easy a puncture change at the side of the road will be in winter, but ill cross that bridge when I come to it.
I didnt want to re-set the frame as I would like to rebuild it with the original components if required.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36755331@N ... otostream/ lingerie online
That looks awesome!0 -
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Campag Athena still can be bought in 'all alloy' - looks fab on classic bikes.0
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ynyswen24 wrote:themightyw wrote:ynyswen24 wrote:Entirely feasible and, in fact, very intriguing...who was your relative if it's not too nosey? I have a mate with an old Hetchins with the very fancy Magnum Bonu,m lugs and modern groupset. It's a cracker.
Funnily enough my relatives were Harry and Jack Quinn
One of my earliest memories is Harry coming over first thing on Christmas morning to drop off my older brother's first bike when we were tiny wee lads. I only found out a couple of months ago that they were related to me (Great Uncles) and only a couple of weeks ago that it was Harry who dropped off that bike.
They moved to St Florence in Pembrokeshire, about 60miles from here and I still wish I'd been able to do one of the framebuilding courses they used to run. Lovely bikes.[/quote
I spent a week in June 1988 in the company of Harry and Peter Quinn building my own touring frame. They were both infinitely patient - and Harry Quinn notably had a wonderful sense of humour.
Personnaly I would eschew fitting modern parts - but each to his own choice.
The complete machine can be viewed here. A wonderful and much treasured bike for me.
R.I.P Harry.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41489547@N ... 150807944/Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom0 -
NervexProf:
Nice work, nice colour. Even BioPace Chainrings!
Building your own frame, thats got to be as good as anything you can do as a cyclist. Everything says I will have to do it sometime...0 -
I refurbished a 1953 Higgins Ultralite trike with newer components. It was a wreck, only the frame was truely original.
Even the forks were from something else. I could not find a recognisable frame number which would have given more history of this classic.
Wheels were rebuilt & braking upgraded from Weinman centre pulls to a hub & double pivot. Gears are newer versions of Suntour.
Brooks saddle & straight bars were added (I can't do drops at my age).
Bob Jacksons in Leeds did a repaint & new transfers plus some brazing to use downtube shifters salvaged from an old Claude Butler racer.
It runs well & gives the old trike a new lease of life. I don't want to ride a museum exhibit.0 -
Stellite wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/36755331@N07/4016560331/in/photostream/
Here is a pic of my Quinn circa 1985. I have stripped it down and rebuilt it, but as i love the ride so much im going to fit an Ultegra SL groupset. The rear dropout can be forced to for the modern wheel spacing as the rear triangle is very slim. Dunno how easy a puncture change at the side of the road will be in winter, but ill cross that bridge when I come to it.
I didnt want to re-set the frame as I would like to rebuild it with the original components if required.
What a lovely looking bike. Chapeau.
Me an dmy brother tried to do up an old bike from the 70's ; trying to remove the cottered cranks was a nightmare.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
well new parts old bike can work but some parts are a bit hit and miss....
I bought this bike with that idea
well I had all the original parts and luckily I used most of them (some just because they looked amazing like the bars)
The new brakes did not fit... the holes are different very oddly sized, I couldnt find shifters or mechs so went single speed :twisted: new BB, new headset, new wheels and cranks, other than that everything is original. took a good few hours work just on the brake levers to bring the finish up, its also my first attempt at wrapping bars and i think it looks ok
bare in mind it is for the GF, I think I did an amazing job...
Powdercoat was done by armotex (frame, forks and stem) everything else was painted or polished by me, I need to get a proper picture but it was dark when i finished tonight and took the pictures on my phone :oops: I want to highlight the lugged frame as i think its beautiful
FCN: 5/6 Fixed Gear (quite rapid) in normal clothes and clips
Cannondale CAAD9 / Mongoose Maurice (heavily modified)0 -
looks great. Well done. Pink rims too, nice one, how about a side view.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
I still got to get that picture the living room is not big enough... and when i get home its dark... saturday will be the day (although it still needs a proper saddle)
I just hope she likes it shes not seen it or ridden it yet... so saturday is gonna be the interesting day FCN: 5/6 Fixed Gear (quite rapid) in normal clothes and clips
Cannondale CAAD9 / Mongoose Maurice (heavily modified)0 -
Stellite wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/36755331@N07/4016560331/in/photostream/
Here is a pic of my Quinn circa 1985. I have stripped it down and rebuilt it, but as i love the ride so much im going to fit an Ultegra SL groupset. The rear dropout can be forced to for the modern wheel spacing as the rear triangle is very slim. Dunno how easy a puncture change at the side of the road will be in winter, but ill cross that bridge when I come to it.
I didnt want to re-set the frame as I would like to rebuild it with the original components if required.
Out of curiosity how woud you need to adapt the bike to use the Ultegra SL stuff? I'm assuming you mean the more modern versions....0 -
themightyw wrote:Stellite wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/36755331@N07/4016560331/in/photostream/
Here is a pic of my Quinn circa 1985. I have stripped it down and rebuilt it, but as i love the ride so much im going to fit an Ultegra SL groupset. The rear dropout can be forced to for the modern wheel spacing as the rear triangle is very slim. Dunno how easy a puncture change at the side of the road will be in winter, but ill cross that bridge when I come to it.
I didnt want to re-set the frame as I would like to rebuild it with the original components if required.
Out of curiosity how woud you need to adapt the bike to use the Ultegra SL stuff? I'm assuming you mean the more modern versions....
The only real 'problem' with fitting modern parts onto an older classique frameset is the rear dropout spacing. A frame like the Quinn would have a space between the dropouts (referred to as the Over Lock Nut Dimension - OLND ) of 126mm, suitable for 5/6speed hubs, as the number of cogs went up (starting if I remember right with 7 speed hubs) the OLND was increased to 130mm. You can usually 'spring' a steel frame the extra 2mm on either side to fit a 130mm hub to fit but it's usually better to get a good shop or frame builder to reset the spacing accurately - just to confuse it of course MTBs have a 135mm OLND and track bikes 120mm. It's not something you need to do on alu frames as most if not all would be 130mm to start with.0 -
Does depend how old though! If you have a really early raleigh, some of them have a different thread TPI which means a ream and sleeve job for the bb.
The most hassle free method to fit modern stuff is send it to someone like bob jackson or argos racing cycles and get them to strip it, and modify it to modern standards then you can just bolt on the parts of your choice pretty much.0 -
ride_whenever wrote:The most hassle free method to fit modern stuff is send it to someone like bob jackson or argos racing cycles and get them to strip it, and modify it to modern standards then you can just bolt on the parts of your choice pretty much.
This is exactly what I did. My 80s Orbit Gold Medal went into Jackon's for re-spacing of rear triangle (120mm to 130), new bridges (for allen-fitting 57mm brakes), drilling rear of fork crown, head-tube cable stops brazed on, 2nd set of bottle bosses on seat tube, pump pegs on top tube, plus blasting and spraying.
The problem is, once you've had all that work done, it works out roughly the same price to just buy a new Bob Jackson frame. :shock:0 -
I have a 1981 HARRY QUINN still in its original condition from the day I built it up still in pristine condition..with less than 200[dry]mls...and my old 1980 HILL SPECIAL I had refurbed and replaced with Campag Centur
Some pictures on my flickr site below0 -
Well, folks, Harry arrived this morning, and the big decisions are waiting. What colour shall I paint him? Get stuck in and have your say on my Mighty Quinn blog if you can, as I'd really value some feedback!
http://mightyquinnbike.wordpress.com/
Thanks!0 -
themightyw wrote:Well, folks, Harry arrived this morning, and the big decisions are waiting. What colour shall I paint him? Get stuck in and have your say on my Mighty Quinn blog if you can, as I'd really value some feedback!
http://mightyquinnbike.wordpress.com/
Thanks!
Chris when I used to race, it was well known that Harry Quinn were great Frames, so that frame deserves to be restored to the same Colours/Chrome/Stickers. Someone like Argos or Mercian would be the best people to get them to do it.
Athena 11 is a brilliant group-set with traditional looks and modern day function so would go perfect with that frame.
That would be a stunning bike when finished.
Good Luck0 -
themightyw wrote:Well, folks, Harry arrived this morning, and the big decisions are waiting. What colour shall I paint him? Get stuck in and have your say on my Mighty Quinn blog if you can, as I'd really value some feedback!
http://mightyquinnbike.wordpress.com/
Thanks!
I have read your blog - well done, good luck with the restoration.
I doubt that a refinisher can, or would want to work around preservation of the existing decals, too fiddly, and expensive to you - with an uncertain, if not disappointing result.
Commend you go here, scroll down, alphabetical ordered, and you can get yourself some new Harry Quinn decals at not too great an expense:
http://www.hlloydcycles.com/ListFeb09html.htmCommon sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom0 -
lots of frame transfers are available including all the period ones - have a look at atlantic boulevard in Bury, I bet you could get the replica Quinn ones
the chroming looks in pretty good nick, you may be ok with leaving this as is and just having the respray sorted"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
Thanks all - some great ideas there.0
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themightyw wrote:Thanks all - some great ideas there.
@themightyw - i'm fascinated by this story and love your blog so far (I have subscribed to your feed).
I would love to know how you get on with this and would also very much like to feature the story in it's entirety on DailyCycle.co.uk so if you're interested get in touch. Good luck with the project 0
