False Economies

spen666

Just been told that when we move to new premises at work, we will have to hot desk. There will only be 8 desks between each 10 staff.

Now, I've got no problem with that at all. I'm not precious where I sit, nor are there many occassions when there are more than 80% of staff in the office as we work out of office a lot of the time.

However, we are also going to lose our laptops and have to share 8 laptops/ pcs between every 10 staff.

Hmmm, how is that going to work. Especially when I am working away from the office and often spend evenings typing up notes or reading material in preparation for the gfollowing day?

If I cannot use a laptop on site to type up notes etc, then this will have to be done when back iin the office, thus increasing the time for each job. Thus costing more to do.

Who thinks up these ideas for economies that cost more than they save?

rick_chasey

E-mail the work and do it at home?

rjsterry

Dunno how big your office is , but they must be saving, oh, a good £600-800 per group of 10 people. that's less than £100 per member of staff. that probably pays for an extra half an hour of someone's time. Do they time how long you spend on the loo as well?

Phuhquits is the answer to your question.

gtvlusso

Hmmm - I have implemented "hotdesking" in 3 companies so far. The benefits are considerably to the employee; working from home without having to use the excuse "The washing machine repair man is coming".

It is generally okay - but I do keep a heap of technical manuals and so on in my roving drawers and my locker is full of clothes, shower stuff and software! As are most other lockers (we had to assess how much locker storage was required, and the office has lost allot of family pictures and silly desk toys as a result)

The only pain is heaving my laptop back and forth to work on the bike - but luckily, I have a swish mini exec laptop and a set of vmware workstations mounted on an external hard drive......there is a technical way around everything! We dumped our desktop workstations in favour of vmware and some shared servers.

As for costs, it has certainly decreased the facilities bills - power, air-con - we do not need to provide the network access points and printers all over the place, mostly wifi access apart from a few servers dotted about and we have reduced the load on the company car fleet (fuel card bills, wear and tear + parking - one of the car parks has now been sold to make way for a new building!)

Helps out with the flexible working and parent policies too and allows people more time at home with their kids - happier people who don't mind adding on the extra hour here and their.

So, all in all, it is win win - however, I think 8 desks to 10 staff is a bit pointless as the reduction in cost will not be too significant. We have gone for 5 desks to 10 staff - people seem to love it, just takes a bit of careful management and some good quality HR input.

spen666

Rick Chasey wrote:

E-mail the work and do it at home?

Breach of security to email work out of the office! Breach of security to take papers home in printed form as well

spen666

gtvlusso wrote:

Hmmm - I have implemented "hotdesking" in 3 companies so far. The benefits are considerably to the employee; working from home without having to use the excuse "The washing machine repair man is coming".

It is generally okay - but I do keep a heap of technical manuals and so on in my roving drawers and my locker is full of clothes, shower stuff and software! As are most other lockers (we had to assess how much locker storage was required, and the office has lost allot of family pictures and silly desk toys as a result)

The only pain is heaving my laptop back and forth to work on the bike - but luckily, I have a swish mini exec laptop and a set of vmware workstations mounted on an external hard drive......there is a technical way around everything! We dumped our desktop workstations in favour of vmware and some shared servers.

As for costs, it has certainly decreased the facilities bills - power, air-con - we do not need to provide the network access points and printers all over the place, mostly wifi access apart from a few servers dotted about and we have reduced the load on the company car fleet (fuel card bills, wear and tear + parking - one of the car parks has now been sold to make way for a new building!)

Helps out with the flexible working and parent policies too and allows people more time at home with their kids - happier people who don't mind adding on the extra hour here and their.

So, all in all, it is win win - however, I think 8 desks to 10 staff is a bit pointless as the reduction in cost will not be too significant. We have gone for 5 desks to 10 staff - people seem to love it, just takes a bit of careful management and some good quality HR input.

But without IT equipment, how can I type spreadsheets, type word documents, access the relevant work networks etc?

The hot desking is fine, its the lack of IT that is the issue

WesternWay

gtvlusso wrote:

Hmmm - I have implemented "hotdesking" in 3 companies so far. The benefits are considerably to the employee; working from home without having to use the excuse "The washing machine repair man is coming".

That varies from person to person I reckon. I simply cannot work from, but my other half does; they closed most of their London offices and staff in general work from home. She hates it; and misses working in an office.

Buckled_Rims

You're lucky. I was once moved desks that didn't have a telephone connection and had NO facility to connect to a telephone without a huge cost option to the building owners. What's the problem with that you may ask? Well I worked in a CALL CENTER! How the hell can I phone a customer up without a telephone.

On another occasion we were forced to hot desk (like yourself). However, our computer systems were secure so we couldn't get roaming profiles on our "hot desked" computers. the only thing we had to do was to use a VNC connection to our home computer 20 feet away. So what was the point in security?

Some managers are just complete *******!

Headhuunter

God I would hate hot desking. My desk at work is like a second home, I've built up piles of crap on and under it from gym trainers and other work shoes to whey protein, several jumpers for when it gets a bit chilly, bungee cords for strapping things to the bike when I need to transport them and then in my drawers, various vitamin and mineral supplements, healthy snacks - fruit, nuts etc, spare house keys, removable bike mudguard etc etc etc.... I wouldn't know where to put all this stuff if we started hot desking!

notsoblue

I think you could do with one of these:



Seriously though, if you're expected to work from home then they must provide you with a laptop...

cee

spen...i would be surprised if they took away your laptop....

desktop machines....fine and well. but like you say.......what do you do if you are not in the office for a week?

If they get rid of the laptops, they stop you from doing large parts of your expected output anywhere except in the office....then presumably everyone (all 10?) will need access to one of 8 machines at some point.

I am imagining a friday....last day of monthly billing, being a little frantic!

davmaggs

Sounds like you might have got the bit about laptops being taken away wrong. If you are in a paper/email shuffling job then it wouldn't work without the tools.

Hot desking has been comon at all the large organisations that I've worked at, although it has to be said that people are creatures of habit and gravitate towards 'their desk'.

The main thing to grab is a locker (they often give those out when do the changeover) straight away. Otherwise they end up been given to people who don't use them.

vorsprung

spen666 wrote:

Hmmm, how is that going to work. Especially when I am working away from the office and often spend evenings typing up notes or reading material in preparation for the following day?

Just don't do it. Don't work evenings typing up notes

If you "must" spend the extra time doing this, well the bloody employers "must" give you the stuff to do it with

emdeef

I have not heard of hotdesking without your own laptop - flexibility is part of the point and it is not going to promote that if you cannot access a PC when you need it.

spen666

cee wrote:

spen...i would be surprised if they took away your laptop....

desktop machines....fine and well. but like you say.......what do you do if you are not in the office for a week?

If they get rid of the laptops, they stop you from doing large parts of your expected output anywhere except in the office....then presumably everyone (all 10?) will need access to one of 8 machines at some point.

I am imagining a friday....last day of monthly billing, being a little frantic!

They have said that the laptops are going- to be shared use ones in future - 8 between 10 etc.

This sounds like madness and false economy? Guess who employs me - clue its not in the private sector and its not local government.

Complete stupidity if it comes off

spen666

vorsprung wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Hmmm, how is that going to work. Especially when I am working away from the office and often spend evenings typing up notes or reading material in preparation for the following day?

Just don't do it. Don't work evenings typing up notes

If you "must" spend the extra time doing this, well the bloody employers "must" give you the stuff to do it with

I'm still puzzling how to do this without the equipment to type it on.

Stupid thing is I will have to do this when I am back in the office, thus extending the time it takes to complete jobs. So where is the economy in that? Less work done in a year is hardly value for money.

Oh yes and we are currently looking at VFM in another organisation and telling them how to achieve it

gtvlusso

Yes - I think you are screwed if your IT infrastructure is rubbish!

We have a secure VPN with huge capacity to allow people the flexibilioty to work from wherever. I also have the option of allowing people to work from offices all over the UK and world - e.g. some people live inbetween 2 offices and can choose where to work, or work at home.

It really is a great idea - when implemented well and with support. Takes a bit of managing in terms of HR (health and safety in the home etc etc etc).

Sounds like your management need a bit of a kick, or they are trying to drive people hours down - i.e. 3 day week - to cut costs.

rjsterry

The big problem with all this working from home is that it destroys any sort of office morale/social cohesion. Maybe not important for everyone, but it makes a hell of a difference to the way our office works.

Sirius631

rjsterry wrote:

The big problem with all this working from home is that it destroys any sort of office morale/social cohesion. Maybe not important for everyone, but it makes a hell of a difference to the way our office works.

Plus you are paying for your own gas and electricity. If you are on a water meter you're paying for that too.

lost_in_thought

spen666 wrote:

vorsprung wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Hmmm, how is that going to work. Especially when I am working away from the office and often spend evenings typing up notes or reading material in preparation for the following day?

Just don't do it. Don't work evenings typing up notes

If you "must" spend the extra time doing this, well the bloody employers "must" give you the stuff to do it with

I'm still puzzling how to do this without the equipment to type it on.

Stupid thing is I will have to do this when I am back in the office, thus extending the time it takes to complete jobs. So where is the economy in that? Less work done in a year is hardly value for money.

Oh yes and we are currently looking at VFM in another organisation and telling them how to achieve it

You can't do it, jobs take longer.

Simples!

They'll realise the error of their ways eventually...

spen666

Sirius631 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

The big problem with all this working from home is that it destroys any sort of office morale/social cohesion. Maybe not important for everyone, but it makes a hell of a difference to the way our office works.

Plus you are paying for your own gas and electricity. If you are on a water meter you're paying for that too.

Plus potential Capital Gains Tax issues on your home as it could be argued it is not being solely used for residential purposes

gtvlusso

Forgot to say - we have a desk booking system, if you would like to work in the office for a period. We also have an opt out - where ome people simply wanted to come to work, 98% of people preferred the flexibility - however, the odd few wanted a fixed desk and I was only too happy to provide that as space, parking and so on was not at a premium.

Some people in the organisation cannot work in this methodology - but all of my dept can, hence I am an advocate of it. I also have a booking system for several offices in various buildings, so that people can get quiet zones if they wish - I am often not in my office - I prefer the goldfish bowl as it is more enjoyable than being all alone in an office. It frees my assigned office up for short notice meetings, conf calls and when someone needs to focus on something without distraction - I don't buy the "status" argument!

I try and run things in an easy and flexible approach, prefer not to have people whining about what they cannot do because of lack of suppot/infrstructure as that is simply poor work on my behalf - my job is to make my co-workers jobs easier (viva communism!!!)

secretsam

I work in consultancy, where 'hot desking' is the norm. In principle, there's not a problem with the concept, but the other services - especially IT - need to support the working model. Not having your 'own' laptop is bizarre, especially given how little they cost - although only having 8 desks (and therefore 8 docking stations) makes total sense. Perhaps you could use encrypted memory sticks to move documents between here and there? Otherwise, you're encouraging flexibility with one hand (hot desking) and removing it with another (too few laptops preventing off site working). Odd. Plus, what happens if one machine packs up?

You do get used to it, and the saving in facilities costs (especially in high cost areas, eg London) is considerable.

secretsam

gtvlusso wrote:

Yes - I think you are screwed if your IT infrastructure is rubbish!

We have a secure VPN with huge capacity to allow people the flexibilioty to work from wherever. I also have the option of allowing people to work from offices all over the UK and world - e.g. some people live inbetween 2 offices and can choose where to work, or work at home.

It really is a great idea - when implemented well and with support. Takes a bit of managing in terms of HR (health and safety in the home etc etc etc).

Sounds like your management need a bit of a kick, or they are trying to drive people hours down - i.e. 3 day week - to cut costs.

Sounds like GTVLusso's company set up is much like ours, although we're not so hot on the whole 'WFH' thing (I personally am fine with it, used to work from home for 3 years). Many companies will happily show you round and give you a tour to show how they do it - ours does tours all the time - PM me if you're interested.

nich

We iz also moving offices soon and we're going to start hot-desking.

I'm planning to hot-desk next to the cute chicks :twisted: , they will no doubt hot desk away from me :evil:

lost_in_thought

SecretSam wrote:

You do get used to it, and the saving in facilities costs (especially in high cost areas, eg London) is considerable.

Is it really though?

Because I manage property in Mayfair, and here we're at about £50psf/yr, + 12.50 service charge (all utilities except rates) so £62.50 psf/annum. Rates come in at varying levels, many peroperties operate a 'service charge' such as this.

So, on the accepted minimum basis of 8sqm per sperson, that's a saving of £5.4k per workplace per annum. If it were 10 sqm per person, it'd be £6.7k-ish.

So Spen's company (who I don't believe are in the overpriced world o'mayfair) are saving around £11k per annum. £13.5k if it's more generous.

Not much in the grand scheme of things...

gtvlusso

lost_in_thought wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

You do get used to it, and the saving in facilities costs (especially in high cost areas, eg London) is considerable.

Is it really though?

Because I manage property in Mayfair, and here we're at about £50psf/yr, + 12.50 service charge (all utilities except rates) so £62.50 psf/annum. Rates come in at varying levels, many peroperties operate a 'service charge' such as this.

So, on the accepted minimum basis of 8sqm per sperson, that's a saving of £5.4k per workplace per annum. If it were 10 sqm per person, it'd be £6.7k-ish.

So Spen's company (who I don't believe are in the overpriced world o'mayfair) are saving around £11k per annum. £13.5k if it's more generous.

Not much in the grand scheme of things...

I think the whole idea works better for larger businesses - saves on Parking and offices that once catered for 1000 employees can be downsized to about 200 employees....massive savings longterm.

In my industry (mobile technology), most people are on the move - flying around the world and out with clients for weeks/months on end - no reason for those employees to have a fixed desk at all.

So, it all depends on size of business and the business focus - although smaller businesses may want to incorporate it into a flexible/parental working policy or just to make life a bit easier for employees.

lost_in_thought

@GTVLusso - agreed. However, Spen's workplace ain't that big!

spen666

lost_in_thought wrote:

@GTVLusso - agreed. However, Spen's workplace ain't that big!

It isn't

Central London, so no parking etc. Office space is very expensive though.

The hot desking is fine by me. i have no problem with that at all. Its the hot laptop ing that seems a bit odd given all my working is on laptop

lost_in_thought

spen666 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

@GTVLusso - agreed. However, Spen's workplace ain't that big!

It isn't

Central London, so no parking etc. Office space is very expensive though.

The hot desking is fine by me. i have no problem with that at all. Its the hot laptop ing that seems a bit odd given all my working is on laptop

More than £50 psf net? I thought you were in Westminter-ish?

zanes

I thought this was going to be a thread to swap amusing tales of blunt razor blades (just one more shave with this one) and worn out brake blocks. Business rates though? :roll: