Familiarity breeds contempt...

Thewaylander

I'm on about all places.

Councils are in a bit of a position at the moment since if htey provide the facilities its there duty to make srue there safe... welll good biking isn't that safe so there has to be a line. it's a bit rubbish, and anything that causes a few crashes disapeares

I can't imagine Brum being particularly more liberal about this than the Welsh councils to be honest, just takes one or two nubs trying to sue

darren555

IMHO there is nothing tamer about Cannock other than the Weirwolf which has lost a bit of its height. There is still plenty to catch you out on the Monkey's two main downhill runs with big rocks and stumps in your path immediately after a couple of places you can get a bit of air. I also find that if you go off line even slightly on many parts of it then it can get difficult too as the trail has broken up into sandy earth.

I go pretty much every week & if I lived closer would go more. It's great 8)

cee

yeehaamcgee wrote:

So what? It's still classed as a DH run.

Only in the sense that you start at the top and ride down a hill

Same grading as the freeride area at GT. Also not a DH track.

Anonymous

It's on the list of Innerleithen DH tracks.

The Northern Monkey

bails87 wrote:

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Which bit are they saying was like a DH course?

the bit just over the road with the jumps?

I think the final 2 descents, before you cross back over the road and the railway line, and rejoin FTD.

Thats not really DH... its technical XC pointing downwards.... actual DH is much much bigger!

Its an xc run with a few rocks in it lol! MBR need to visit Fort Bill

Northwind

mak3m wrote:

mate of mine rode the fort william wc dh
said it consited of about 40 mins of sliding down a hill/mountain on his ass

Took me about 11 for my one run... But I reckon I can rip a few of minutes out of that now I know the way down, I was just sighting it really. It's hard but it's not horrible, I reckon it's possibly easier than Laggan's black. Just physically incredibly demanding compared to an XC ride.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

It's on the list of Innerleithen DH tracks.

Sure it is, but then the Motorway's part of the Fort William DH and you could ride it on a dutch shopping bike with 2 flat tyres, not to mention that it barely even goes down a hill, it's pedallier than most XC descents. The bottom of Make Or Break is only a DH track in name.

cee wrote:

Same grading as the freeride area at GT. Also not a DH track.

Orange is a pretty meaningless grade, all the DH trails are orange now, it just means "Aaargh we don't know how to grade this". Off Beat and the Ae Downhill are orange too, as are all the real Innerleithen DH trails. And the Essentials at Glentress

phz

Thewaylander wrote:

Alot of trails around Wales ahve been either up rated, or had drops and so on removed ei the ladder drops and wall ride at Cwm. we just don't seem to be allowed to have the scary stuff at the moemnt.
I have been riding some more technical locals traisl recently and to be honest some of the trail centers are starting to annoy me because as soon as some part tough comes along its cleaned up. cwms climb this year had a good bit of work done on it and its no where near as challenging or fun now

this is happening all over FC land now it seems - the TIMBER group at thetford put in some fairly tame TTFs (with chicken runs even though they really didnt need them) on a section of the red route that just added a little bit of fun and challenge to a short section of the route but they only lasted a matter of months before they had to be removed at FC request as they (to paraphrase) 'appeared to be an unavoidable part of the trail presenting potential danger to less skilled cyclists'

overall thetford is obviously tame compared to most other trail centres but the irony for me is that other more natural sections of the red are more potentially dangerous to inexperienced cyclists as they invite fast flowing riding weaving in and out of the trees

go figure ...

(back on topic - having read the MBR cannock stuff and checking some youtube vids i reckon i need to find my way over there at some point since its only an hour and a half or so away)

slainte :? rob

Northwind

At GT we're just in the middle of demolishing a hard bit and replacing it with a harder bit Though one bit's had to be tamed down a little since if it'd been left like it was it'd probably have destroyed a few too many people

lochussie

Northwind wrote:

mak3m wrote:

mate of mine rode the fort william wc dh
said it consited of about 40 mins of sliding down a hill/mountain on his ass

Took me about 11 for my one run... But I reckon I can rip a few of minutes out of that now I know the way down, I was just sighting it really. It's hard but it's not horrible, I reckon it's possibly easier than Laggan's black. Just physically incredibly demanding compared to an XC ride.

No way Laggan black is harder the Fort WC DH. I happily bombed all but one bit of Laggan on my hardtail, would not do that at the Fort.

I like the sound of harder bits at Glentress, which route?

Almightydutch

Well I best add my two pennies worth seeing as i ride Cannock 3 times a week.

DH course....me thinks not. Yes the last two Monkey sections are good fun but in no way are they anything like a DH course.
I dont see any mandatory gaps to jump, the rock garden parts are fairly tame(apart from the black run one which is only as it goes round a corner), the jumps arent big enough, lack of drop offs.

Yes they are fun and frantic at times but I couldnt see how MBR can say that.

Well maybe I can, last Demo day up the chase we saw multiple MBR/WMB staff sitting on there arse doin not much at all. In fact Doddy we saw twice at the cafe stuffing his face and not a single dirty mark on him,

CycloRos

There's no doubting the Monkey Trail has added seriously more technicality over FtD.

But the "the closest thing to a full on DH course you'll find at a UK trail centre", I don't think so either, the descents at Ae, Laggan and Fort Bill's red routes are much more DH-esque.

Other than that statement I thought the MBR article was pretty much spot on.

lawman

TMT is stupidly fun yes but no DH track. gradings seem all the place atm, like the black run at thetford forest, its smoother than my road and not in the least bit challenging. i have to say that the fortbill DH course is pretty tough, but the world cup xc course, which in 2007 was touted as the toughest xc course ever, i found quite boring in places and little flow in places too.

Northwind

lochussie wrote:

No way Laggan black is harder the Fort WC DH. I happily bombed all but one bit of Laggan on my hardtail, would not do that at the Fort.

I like the sound of harder bits at Glentress, which route?

Well, that's how I reckon it. Most of FW is just a case of picking a line and going down it, and the line choices are easier than at Laggan. Crack Attack IMO is harder than any part of the DH, at least. I suppose it depends on your skillset though.

The new bit's on falla brae, you know the black diversion with the big log entrance thing? That's come out and being replaced with a longer, steep rooty line. Not sure what it looks like now since I've missed a few sessions but unless it all ends up buried in hardcore it's going to give some people a surprise Not as hard as broon troot though.

Raymondavalon

bails87 wrote:

I was having a flick through MBR yesterday and read the section about Cannock Chase, one of my regular haunts. I probably go the once every 3-4 weeks. I've only actually ridden at 2 other trail centres (Climachx and Nant-yr-Arian).

Anyway, they described the final descent on the monkey as (roughly) "one of the wildest descents they've ridden" and said it was "the closest thing to a full on DH course you'll find at a UK trail centre".

Mark, an interesting Thread Topic indeed and it's brought some great debate out too!

I ride FTD 4-5 times/week (after work) and Monkey Trail at least once a week usually on a weekend
The Monkey Trail still knackers me out, but it's all that relentless climbing one has to undertake in order to get to the descents.
But, is it truly "the closest thing to a downhill course"? Admittedly it's an exciting and technically challenging trail for sure, but I'd say "no".

Why? The "true/dedicated" downhill courses I've seen on video and in person (please note: seen and not ridden myself as I am not a downhill rider and don't own a DH bike) have more technical challenges, like drop offs and big air jumps and also allow the DH riders to choose different lines and carry more speed than I've seen anyone ever achieve on the Monkey Trail.

Sure it's a blast and as I get out there quite often I've seen riders complete the Monkey Trail on Apollo branded FS/HT bikes with rim brakes. Although that in itself is an admirable achievement, it also justifies MY judgment of the Monkey Trail being a great technical course that offers an element of danger, but it hasn't at any time reminded me of any DH course that I've seen.

rudedog

yeehaamcgee wrote:

paulrockliffe wrote:

The red route at Inners ends by coming down Caddon Bank, which isn't part of any of the three DH runs. Caddon Bank pops you out at the bottom of the three DH runs, but you never actually ride on any of them.

Bollocks.
MAP IS HERE
Go to page 2, red XC trail joins make or break.

All this hyping things up as DH tracks is nonsense anyway. i've not been to any DH tracks that I was not well prepared for by riding in and around north wales. sure the "proper" DH tracks are steeper than other marked trails, but there is no massive step in technicality.
The danger, and the difficulty comes when riding those DH trails at full tilt.
Simply getting down a DH run intact is not really the same as riding it.

How is that map showing the red joins make or brake? If it did, it would be marked as orange, not as an orange/red shared trail. To me it seems fairly obvious Caddon bank is red, as indicated on the map - if you look where it says 'caddon bank' its surrounded by a red background, same as all the other sections of red. The names of all the downhill sections are surroned by orange, same goes for the blacks.

Its make or brake that joins the red, not the other way round.

Northwind

rudedog wrote:

Its make or brake that joins the red, not the other way round.

Yeehaa would tell you there's no difference I reckon. And if he did, he'd be right. The 7 stanes map shows caddon bank as red and orange hatched after all. But lets not argue about it, lets see what the FC have to say:

"Make or Brake

Voted one of MBR magazine’s top 10 descents in the country in 2005, this trail is totally different in character from the natural tracks at Innerleithen. It's wide and fast, stacked full of jumps, drops and huge flowing berms – big grins guaranteed!

Confidence with jumping at speed will help get the most out of the track, though first time down and for those less comfortable jumping, we recommend that you keep your speed under control and your wheels on or close to the ground (most features can be rolled through).

From the start a series of gentle turns leads into several steeper, tighter banked hairpins. Carrying some speed out of the last one sets you up nicely for two floaty double jumps. Catch the right hand berm and you’re at the upper road crossing.

Off the road, the trail falls steeply away. Momentum gained, you’re quickly onto a series of jumps in quick succession. Keep it low through these and you’ll have the speed needed to clear the final big double jump. The trail then flattens for a while before breaking out of the trees.

Over 25 jumps are packed into the next section, which dives and weaves down the open hill through big ‘g-outs’ and bermed corners. Tabletops, doubles, hip jumps, step-ups and step-downs all feature. A little way down, there’s an optional section, Double D. Here the jumps are bigger still and upramps even steeper. Enjoy!

Crossing the lower road, the final section is shared with the infamous Caddon Bank (part of the XC Route). Negotiate a couple of rocky steps and you're onto the first of three (optional) rock drops in a row – the third is the biggest at nearly 4ft, though the trail falls away steeply allowing for some considerable air time!

Round a 180 turn, over a cheeky rock step and it’s into a series of 10 big rollers – like being on a rollercoaster, but on your bike! Check contents of stomach are intact, then it’s across a bridleway and into the lower section.

Down a rock chute and over a couple of smaller jumps you soon pick up speed. Two small rock drops fly quickly by then it’s into a big 180 turn, through some massive bombholes, then three doubles back to back. From here, things can get ridiculously quick over several wide step-downs, the last of which fires you into a big tabletop.

Through two turns, then a couple more rock steps follow. Off the brakes here, pedal hard and you’ll clear a step down into a flippin’ huge bombhole, which spits you out over two more tabletops. Two final turns, a couple of jumps and you’ve made it to the finish!

* Grade: Orange bike park (see trail grades for details of this grade)
* Distance: 3.81km / 2.37 miles
* 100% singletrack"

peter413

Northwind wrote:

lochussie wrote:

The new bit's on falla brae, you know the black diversion with the big log entrance thing? That's come out and being replaced with a longer, steep rooty line. Not sure what it looks like now since I've missed a few sessions but unless it all ends up buried in hardcore it's going to give some people a surprise Not as hard as broon troot though.

It has actually been burried a lot now so its all easily rollable, will probably still give some people a shock though

Northwind

Fair play though, if they'd left the big step in that'd probably be considered manslaughter How about the lovely roots up top?