Garmin v phone app
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yeehaamcgee wrote:So is bar shaker actually agreeing now that differing GPS units have differing levels of accuracy?
Cause you know, that was pretty much the only point I was trying to raise in all this, before you jumped down my throat.
I thought the point you were making is that the GPS receivers found in phones are nothing more than "gimmicky add-ons".
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Ho Ho Ho.
I suspect they used them (they were company issue) when carrying the official stuff around might not be a good idea. Who knows? I can't think of any civilian use for Theodolite so maybe it accesses the Mil coded stuff.
My 196 was WAAS enabled but I'm not sure there are any WAAS transmitters outside of the US. Accuracy was often down to less than 1m and that was on a unit I bought in 2003.
There are good and bad PNDs and good and bad phones. Simples.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
Erm, how about civil engineering?Bar Shaker wrote:I can't think of any civilian use for Theodolite
You can augment GPS with known location ground beacons, as they did in the construction of the "highway in the sky" in southern France. With the augmented system, I believe they were claiming accuracy down to tenths of millimetres.0 -
I stand by the iPhone being a gimmick full stop :P. But that doesn't make all other smart phones such. Touch screens perhaps 0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:
Erm, how about civil engineering?Bar Shaker wrote:I can't think of any civilian use for Theodolite
You can augment GPS with known location ground beacons, as they did in the construction of the "highway in the sky" in southern France. With the augmented system, I believe they were claiming accuracy down to tenths of millimetres.
impressive counterpoint
doff my cap to that reply.
chapeau.0 -
counterpoint? to what? :?0
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a good example to counter Bar Shaker's post :?
FFS man take a compliment in good faith. :?0 -
Sorry, I wasn't trying to counter anybody, just adding my bit to the discussion.0
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Er, I am a surveyor (well have been promoted out of the way but that is my trade).
Theodolite would be useless in construction. You could use it to work out roughly how high a tree was or roughly how far away the canteen was but that's about it on a building site. As for working out a distance and vector from a location, its pretty useful but we have £30k precision instruments for that, that do indeed work to a few millimetres over hundreds over huge distances.
Compliments are withdrawn. Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
So, why do they still use theodolites when building roads, bridges, and the most recent use I've seen of them was when laying fibre optic cable, then?0
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We don't.
It looks like a theodolite on a tripod but its called a Total Station. We used to use theodolites to perform Re angle sections to triangulate points on a site or to define an arc that we could then roll a tape measure along. Its all a bit different now. A Total Station uses laser light for distance finding and will plot a precise point anywhere within line of sight, once you have shown where its fixed reference points are. You can plug the memory unit into a laptop, down load the points you want to plot on site and then you just move the staff until the unit says you are within tolerance of the location point you want.
For larger sites, radio signal instruments are used and these work where there is no line of sight.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
right. So is a Total Station a bit like a theodolite, and then some then? Like theodolite mark IV or whatever?0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:
Yes, which I still stand by.rudedog wrote:I thought the point you were making is that the GPS receivers found in phones are nothing more than "gimmicky add-ons".
Gimmicky in what way?The GPS in my phone is excellent, I use it with CoPilot for in Car Satnat, I use it with Mapyx Quo for when I need full Ordinance survey maps, and google maps when I'm exploring a new City - I've found it fast, accurate and very useful - hardly the criteria for a 'gimmick'.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
Yes, which I still stand by.rudedog wrote:I thought the point you were making is that the GPS receivers found in phones are nothing more than "gimmicky add-ons".
Smart phone GPS units are definately more than gimmicky ad ons. If it were a gimmick it would be there for a headline in the specs whilst being practically useless. They aren't.
I use mine (a Nokia 5800) all the time with Viewranger software. If I know where I'm going exactly then its useful for tracking the route from my pocket/backpack, if I've a rough idea of the route but need guidance at a few junctions then its invaluable being zip tied to the stem.
You get 90% of what you get with a Garmin with a smartphone, only missing the ability to sit on my bars in crap weather. Mine cost me £4. If you can justify the extra ?£100-200 for the extra 10% then great. I can't at the moment.0 -
I thought a Total Station is where you buy your petrol.yeehaamcgee wrote:right. So is a Total Station a bit like a theodolite, and then some then? Like theodolite mark IV or whatever?
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I'll fetch my coat 0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:right. So is a Total Station a bit like a theodolite, and then some then? Like theodolite mark IV or whatever?
It is a 'bit like' a theodolite in the same way that a microwave oven is a bit like an Aga, in that they both cook food.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
That's waht I have at the moment, and it's so innacurate it's not even funny.flet©h wrote:I use mine (a Nokia 5800) all the time with Viewranger software. If I know
I can ride the same 20-or so mile route, and the distance recorded will vary by up to 6 miles.
Thge altitude accuracy is shocking. I can take three steps in any direction, and gain 300m in altitude. What's even funnier is that on a loop of trail, the start/end altitude have no correlation to each other.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
That's waht I have at the moment, and it's so innacurate it's not even funny.flet©h wrote:I use mine (a Nokia 5800) all the time with Viewranger software. If I know
I can ride the same 20-or so mile route, and the distance recorded will vary by up to 6 miles.
Thge altitude accuracy is shocking. I can take three steps in any direction, and gain 300m in altitude. What's even funnier is that on a loop of trail, the start/end altitude have no correlation to each other.
So your basis for smartphone gps being gimmicky is based on your experience with this phone?0 -
No, not only this phone, but the nokia seems typical of most phones in my experience - at least it's honest enough to give you an "accuracy" figure.0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:No, not only this phone, but the nokia seems typical of most phones in my experience - at least it's honest enough to give you an "accuracy" figure.
out of curiosity, which other phones have you used that have had poor GPS ?0 -
Well, admittedly they were almost all various forms of nokia, and an iPhone. I think the iPhone was a 2nd gen one, I don't know for sure though.
I'm not a phone geek, and can barely remember what model my current one is, but when i saw 5800, I thought "that looks familiar". The iPhone was not mine.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
That's waht I have at the moment, and it's so innacurate it's not even funny.flet©h wrote:I use mine (a Nokia 5800) all the time with Viewranger software. If I know
I can ride the same 20-or so mile route, and the distance recorded will vary by up to 6 miles.
Thge altitude accuracy is shocking. I can take three steps in any direction, and gain 300m in altitude. What's even funnier is that on a loop of trail, the start/end altitude have no correlation to each other.
Now I understand why you feel like you do about GPS phones.
Your phone has a SiRF StarIII GPS chip which is highly rated. I would say there is something wrong with it.
ETA - that chipset was very popular in Bluetooth GPS units and their accuracy is taken to be as good as any PND.
Perhaps GPS doesn't work in Wales.
Hold on - this might sound daft but the MOD have been doing GPS blocking tests in Wales for years. Large swaths of the country were subject to GPS errors or no GPS at all. I have no idea if the tests are still going on.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
Hang on. So again, you are saying that there ARE differences between GPS devices? That was the one and only point I tried to raise.0
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I don't mean to interrupt but I have an HTC with gps that works just as good as any other gps. I use it in the car with co-pilot and I have memorymap on it, the whole country on OS maps. It pinpoints my position perfectly and is no gimmick.Smarter than the average bear.0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:Hang on. So again, you are saying that there ARE differences between GPS devices? That was the one and only point I tried to raise.
In recent years, no.
All the receivers are 20+ channel (phone, bluetooth or PND) and you will never have more than 24 usable satellites in the sky at once. Older units (3+ years ago in phones and 10+ years ago for PNDs) the quality of the units was variable. Before the first Gulf War, the signal was chopped to create inaccuracy so there was little point making units that were accurate to 300mm if the signal was never accurate better than 100m.
Your phone should work better than it does.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:Hang on. So again, you are saying that there ARE differences between GPS devices? That was the one and only point I tried to raise.
It was established on page 1 that there are differences between GPS devicesdeadkenny wrote:However phones have a disadvantage in that the receivers are often not as big as those in a standalone and they are crammed into a device that has many other transmitters and receivers, especially in smart phones that have GSM/3G/Bluetooth/WiFi. Plus metal casings on some phones can shield the signal.0 -
Are you talking about Sports Tracker here? I've had this with ST, especially on altitude. Other GPS apps and even the "GPS" app that shows the raw data are generally okay.yeehaamcgee wrote:
That's waht I have at the moment, and it's so innacurate it's not even funny.flet©h wrote:I use mine (a Nokia 5800) all the time with Viewranger software. If I know
I can ride the same 20-or so mile route, and the distance recorded will vary by up to 6 miles.
Thge altitude accuracy is shocking. I can take three steps in any direction, and gain 300m in altitude. What's even funnier is that on a loop of trail, the start/end altitude have no correlation to each other.
There's a big problem with it at the moment in that it seems to lack GPS filtering. The phone GPS may be okay but ST is drifting all over the place. The original Nokia Sports Tracker beta had filtering and didn't drift anywhere near as much on my phone (E72).
There are firmware bugs also. The E72 GPS has many issues. It's not the GPS because I get the same with an external Bluetooth GPS. There's new firmware coming out for the E72 which is slowly trickling to all the variants (can take months!), and I'm hoping it may have numerous bug fixes for the GPS.
For what it's worth, my old N80, which didn't have an internal GPS but used my same external Bluetooth GPS was spot on with Nokia Maps, Google Maps and the old Sports Tracker.
Oh and the 5800 has a bazillion bugs anyway, but then most recent S60 phones do. The hardware is generally fine and I'd bet the GPS chips are good. It's mostly down to rubbish software.
The actual GPS hardware technology is roughly the same on consumer units, except for all the augmented parts like A-GPS, DGPS, WAAS, etc.rudedog wrote:It was established on page 1 that there are differences between GPS devices
They all go down to 10 meters and then with augmentation, where supported, can get down to 3 to 5 meters.
The difference I highlighted is down to the physical box it is held in. Basically the more things you have to shield or interfere with the signal, the more errors or loss of lock.
Software on the other hand is another matter. Many differences there, and not just between devices but also between apps on the same device.0 -
No, it's not sports tracker, it any gps software. Including the "location" one that comes with the phone. Altitude is just horrendously bad.
I've put the main reason for this down to it being a multi-purpose device. I've toyed with the idea of getting a bluetooth GPS receiver which would eliminate most of that problem, sine for 50 quid or so, it's worth experimenting with.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:No, it's not sports tracker, it any gps software. Including the "location" one that comes with the phone. Altitude is just horrendously bad.
I've put the main reason for this down to it being a multi-purpose device. I've toyed with the idea of getting a bluetooth GPS receiver which would eliminate most of that problem, sine for 50 quid or so, it's worth experimenting with.
I can see if I can find the one I used to use, could send it for you to try for free if ya fancy it. Would need it back eventually though just incase, but you can have it for a few months.
this is the fella0
