Why pay more?

dmch2

First post alert...

I've been reading the forums for a while and I think I know which bikes I'm going to look at in my local Evans (there's not a good LBS round here, Durham, that I know of and they have a huge range so something there should suit).

The question is what do I need from a bike?

I commuted to work for 5 years (only 3.5 miles each way but I did it every day all year round) and I've recently taken up road riding as I can't cycle to my current job (no showers). I used to do a LOT of rowing (11 times a week) although I'm not that fit any more. I'm about 13 stone at the moment but 1 stone of that shouldn't be there...

I did almost 300 miles in August on my 2004 Marin Muirwoods hybrid with Marathon tyres. Longest ride was 50 miles and there's a lot of hills round here so I feel like I'm coming along quite nicely.

It seems that anything less than Sora kit will wear out too fast, and since Sora has those annoying shifters I think that means I need Tiagra. A 105 Groupset is nice but I don't think it offers me anything. I can lose a stone off me before I go chasing grams off the bike.

An alloy frame seems perfectly adequate and hard wearing vs a carbon one. Although I think I need carbon forks to absorb the road buzz as I suffer a bit even with gel gloves and 26x1.75 tyres on the all alloy hybrid. Am I going to notice the benefit of a carbon seatpost to absorb some vibration? At the moment I have to do 25 miles before I even notice my (gel, but fairly narrow for a hybrid at least) saddle.

I'm pretty convinced that I want a triple. I'm often in the bottom gear (although 2nd is getting more use as I improve) uphills on the hybrid and I don't want the lack of a low enough gear meaning I avoid certain hills because then I'll never practice up them! Similarly if I get a compact I won't have high enough gears for down the other side (I frequently get over 40mph on the hills round here).

It seems that most tyres sold as standard with new bikes are pretty poor. I don't fancy a puncture 20 miles from home when I could spend 20 quid now to upgrade the tyres for a bit more puncture resistance. Is that a fair comment?

And finally - wheels. They seem to be a favourite upgrade but coming from a hybrid am I going to notice? I've got a physics degree so the argument that 100g saved isn't going to make a difference in 100kg of bike+rider makes sense. But then why does almost everyone say they're so important to throw money at? Has anyone done a back to back test without knowing which is which? Is it worth spending £50-£100 more to upgrade the wheels (assuming that the bike shop will buy the standard ones back off me)?

Position wise I think I want something fairly aggressive as I've always got the hybrid for tootling about with the kids etc. This bike is for 'me time'!

My budget is basically anything under £1000 but it looks like by buying now in the sales and using the above points I can get all I want/need for £750. Or a bit more to uprate the brakes (Treks all seem to have no name brakes), tyres or even wheels etc. I've got lights, bottle, locks, computer, tools, clothing etc but will keep some change for a portable pump that'll do 100psi and the rest I can take down the pub

For example the 2010 triple versions of the following are all 700-750 ish at Evans and have all the stuff I think I need without buying anything I think is unnecessary:
Trek 1.5 triple
Specialized Allez Elite
Cannondale CAAD 8
Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Tiagra

So - do the above 4 (and others Evans may have) look like they'll do the job? Are any of my thoughts completely stupid? Any other questions to ask in the shop?

Thanks for what I've learned so far and for any answers to the above. I promise my next post will be shorter!

dmch2

Of course I'll be getting the bike shop to fit the bike to me. I'm 6ft tall with 34" inside leg so a fairly normal size.

thel33ter

The CAAD bikes seem to get lots of love, and are meant to be comfotable to. The Trek 1.5's forks are really stiff, and don't help with absorbing vibration much, go for curved forks if you can.

It will be easy to save around 500g's on t6he wheels if you get a pair of Planet X model B's or C's.

Carbon seatpost makes a tiny bit if difference but good padded shorts and a decent saddle are much more important.

As for tyres a decent pair of folding tyres will save a few hundred grams too.

TBH though for the money you won't a bad bike, so go for the one that fits best and YOU like.

Lagavulin

I had MTS Cycle Sport in Gilesgate recommended to me when I was looking at a new road bike. Turns out they'd stopped doing BMC though so I pursued other avenues but might be worth a look?

dmch2

Cool thanks thel33ter. Looks like I was paying attention when reading earlier!

Notes on the curved forks and padded shorts. Why padded shorts rather than a padded saddle? Does the latter just make the bike look a bit 'soft' or are the shorts much comfier?

Will I really notice the difference with better wheels? I've seen wheels for sale at over £1000 but I'm not aiming to win the TdF so I just want something decent that doesn't needlessly make life difficult for me. A few seconds up a hill isn't worth it, but being able to spend another 30 minutes or 10 miles having fun is worth it

Turbo Man

Don't dismiss compact chainsets so easily, you just need an 11-25 cassette. A 50-11 gives almost the same gearing as 53-12 so you lose nothing at the top end, but get a lower bottom gear and less overlap on the middle. Win-win in my book (and, I would suggest, for most 'normal' cyclists! ;-) ).

dmch2

What do you mean by 'BMC'?

Their website is pretty minimal so I'll go by and take a look. Thanks.

dmch2

What do you gain from a compact though? 20 quid, 100g and a fear of that big hill?

Lagavulin

Sorry, BMC are a Swiss bike manufacturer. I'd had the shop recommended on here by someone who'd bought one of their Pro Machines from MTS. Sadly when I contacted them they were no longer a BMC dealer.

thel33ter

Padded shorts are a must for long distances. Not sure why they make such a big difference but they really help, especially with a saddle that you already find comfortable.

dmch2

I'll add padded shorts to the list - thanks. I must admit that the look of some road saddles scare me a bit!

(And a silly car avatar until I have a new bike to replace it!)

SgtFinaldo

A mate of mine has a caterham, ridiculously quick.

The CAAD or the Spesh Allez. Great begginer bikes from what ive read.
Padded shorts are a must. Ribble do reasonably priced bibshorts, but shop around.
A wheel upgrede after bout 500 Miles or more to add to the growing speed addiction, and lighter stem and seatpost further down the line. But dont go crazy on upgrades!!

Starting out with a heavy bike, getting fit on it and improving general health, THEN do what you want. I swear my first roadie was a Ridley barge that weighed 23lb and made me grunt like a pig up hills. But it got me fit. Quickly. And dont attack hills like a pro when starting off, they have a habit of murdering you very effectively. Just take your time and carefully compete with yourself.

Id recommend a wireless cycle computer, a Cat eye Strada wireless is great, well priced and you can time yourself and measure those miles!

Best of luck!

d70ar9

For a good LBS in Durham try Cestria Cycles in Chester le Street (very good reputation and used by the Durham University Cycling Team). It is worth a visit anyway...

dmch2

thanks for the recommendation d70ar9.

I had a look at their site and I didn't recognise many makes of bike on there (but lots of component manufacturers). Am I better off buying the bike from a bigger shop with a bigger selection (Evans) and then using them as an LBS for advice, upgrades etc going forward?

Or is a big chain shop like Evans likely to have a much poorer level of service that I'm still better at a decent 'proper' LBS?

Sorry for the dumb question but my experience is that Halfords are rubbish (told me that a 9 gear cassette would work with an 8 speed shifter) and so were my LBS (26" tyres don't exist and selling me a chain that wore out in a few hundred miles on a new cassette) when I lived in Newcastle (Ben Hayward). So having a big selection for me to see which is most comfortable is the more important criteria.

thel33ter

It normally depends on the people at the store, I've had a fantastic guy at my local Halfords once The local Evans is better than all the LBS's around, apart from one in Knaphill, but its a tiny shop.

I mainly use bike shops to poke around in then buy online cuz I'm a cheapskate

You are probably best going to the biggest shop around to try the bike, as they are more likely to have your size instock.

d70ar9

I didn't get my bike from them as i already had it before i went to University but they were more than happy to give me advice on upgrades, different gearing options etc. They also did a really good job servicing it for my LEJOG trip. Anyway pop in and have a look they will talk to you and give you advice without pressurising you to buy anything. They sell Orbea (i know many people love them) bikes amongst others. Halfords are rubbish, my brother has a Bordman (great bike) and the Tiagra shifter broke when we took it back to Halfords the guy on the desk hadn't heard of Shimano....

tigerben

I would definitely recommend padded shorts - they make huge difference to ride comfort. I find combination of a very hard saddle (brooks) with padded shorts works like a dream.

I would also strongly recommend shoes/ cleats - although you may already be using these on your hybrid.

In terms of upgrades - I would not worry about it until you have had the bike a few months and have clearer idea of what works / does not work for you - unless you can get the shop to do a deal on day 1. The starting spec on the bikes mentioned should be more than sufficient.

dmch2

I was planning to get shoes and cleats. I think the MTB type as you can walk in the shoes much better I believe.

I'll hold off on any other upgrades apart from possibly tougher tyres (a mate of mine got a new Giant defy 3 and got a puncture every 50 miles in the standard tyres while the rest of us didn't get one). Better wheels may save a few seconds but not getting a puncture will save 10 minutes!

Hopefully the shop will do me a deal on any bits and bobs

thel33ter

If you get MTB cleats then get some with a platform too, as after 30-50 miles you really start feeling the cleat under your foot.

Something like this, and then for short rides to the shops ect. you can use normal shoes.

huuregeil

dmch2

Couple of things. I think you're assumption that cash only buys you weight savings is wrong - it can also buy you reliability/longivity. Take wheels, for example, the main thing that changes going from a £150 wheelset to a £300 one is the quality of the hubs. Which is good news if you're on a budget and not doing too many miles, cos you can get most of the performance with a fraction of the cost! Similarly levers, in campag world at least, more cash gets you better internals.

Otherwise, sounds good! A triple is great, a far better compromise than a compact IMO giving a wider range of gearing and, particularly, smaller jumps between the gears for virtually no penalty. 30-23 is lower than 34-25, 53-12 is a touch lower than 50-11 but who cares, if you can spin out that gear then you'll be needing a new bike! Tyres are a top upgrade.

At some point you might want to look at the saddle, particularly if you starting riding longer distances - I certainly consider saddle comfort a priority and worth spending the cash getting it right! Padded shorts rather than a padded saddle, cos you move around. Carbon seatpost - waste of time.

dmch2

Am I right in thinking that tiagra level kit is reliable enough to do thousands (if not tens of thousands) of miles? So then I can replace things as they wear out in the future?

OTOH I notice that Evans are doing the Specialized Secteur Elite with 200 quid off and it's all 105 based... When it's described as more comfort orientated I assume that affects the frame geometry rather than just having higher handlebars / a taller stem? And what are Zertz inserts when they're at home?

Lagavulin

Tiagra is perfectly good equipment. I ran it for 4 years on my Allez and the only thing I had bother with were the brake calipers taking a beating in winter. Upgraded to 105s after 18 months or so and they were trouble free.
One thing to possible consider though is that it is 9 speed. If you feel the need or desire to upgrade to higher-end 10 speed in the future it will likely be a more expensive.

Zertz are elastomer inserts Specialized stick in the forks and seat stays of some of their frames and also in some seatposts to supposedly dampen road buzz.

dmch2

My thoughts are that I can upgrade it when it breaks.

As for 9 to 10 speed - If I was replacing anything because it was worn/broken then I'd probably replace all the gear stuff anyway. ie if I got a new rear mech then I'd be silly not to replace the chain, cassette and shifters at the same time as they'd also all be worn. So I'd just buy it all as 10sp.

So Zertz may or may not help but it's not really got a downside.

flet©h

thel33ter wrote:

If you get MTB cleats then get some with a platform too, as after 30-50 miles you really start feeling the cleat under your foot.

Something like this, and then for short rides to the shops ect. you can use normal shoes.

That's bolox.

I use shimano MTB SPD on my road bike and don't feel them at all, I have the DX pedals on my MTB and there is absolutely no difference in feel once clipped in. The DX's are just designed to give you a bigger platform if you miss the clips when riding rough stuff. (They are farking heavy though).

And since the OP is keeping his hybrid there is no need to be able to ride in normal shoes.

dmch2

You wouldn't believe (perhaps you would actually) the amount of persuading my wife needed to explain that I need the hybrid and the new bike.

I don't want to use a road bike for towing my daughter along gravel paths but she sees that as a deficiency in the road bike...

thel33ter

flet©h wrote:

thel33ter wrote:

If you get MTB cleats then get some with a platform too, as after 30-50 miles you really start feeling the cleat under your foot.

Something like this, and then for short rides to the shops ect. you can use normal shoes.

That's bolox.

I use shimano MTB SPD on my road bike and don't feel them at all, I have the DX pedals on my MTB and there is absolutely no difference in feel once clipped in. The DX's are just designed to give you a bigger platform if you miss the clips when riding rough stuff. (They are farking heavy though).

And since the OP is keeping his hybrid there is no need to be able to ride in normal shoes.

Forgot about the hybrid. I have the older metal platform ones and I do feel a difference, although the cleats on my shoes are very recessed.

dmch2

I'd understood that MTB style cleats are better because you can walk in the shoe whereas road cleats stick out so much that you can't walk.

Are the road ones more comfortable to ride in even without any additional pedal material?

At the moment I'm used to trainers and very big MTB style pedals (no clips or cleats) so I'm guessing I may well be in thel33ter's camp and notice the difference...

thel33ter

dmch2 wrote:

I'd understood that MTB style cleats are better because you can walk in the shoe whereas road cleats stick out so much that you can't walk.

Are the road ones more comfortable to ride in even without any additional pedal material?

At the moment I'm used to trainers and very big MTB style pedals (no clips or cleats) so I'm guessing I may well be in thel33ter's camp and notice the difference...

Have a look through this thread, pretty much sums it up.

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16342340

italiafirenze

You'll only be walking from outside the cafe to inside the cafe.

Get some nice road shoes and pedals. SPD-SL are ubiquitous, reliable and affordable.

Look and Time are Euro-cool.

dmch2

Same as the bike then - I'll try the various types in the shop and see what I think. Or maybe I should just accept Murphy's Law that whichever type I get, 6 months later I'll wish I'd got the other!

dmch2

I've just come back from Evans and have bought/ordered a 58cm Trek 1.5 with SPDs.

In the end there was nothing between it and the cannondale CAAD 8 apart from the pannier mounts (and 20 quid cheaper) on the trek. Does that mean I have to do JOGLE one day to justify the choice?

Should get it next week. Looking forward to riding it!