Design life of Fox suspension components: what's reasonable?

crimsondynamo

I have a 08 Stumpjumper which I've used almost every weekend for just over 2 years. That's say 90 outings, the vast majority of which have been 90 minute blasts round Glentress or Innerleithen. I'm 13.5st and my "style" is pretty conservative, i.e not much air.

My forks started leaking oil due to worn stanchions (so not economically repairable) a few weeks ago, and this morning my rear shock blurted out a whole load load of oil and stopped damping rebound.

Is 2 years of such use considered reasonable? I'm staring down the barrell of £550 - £600 to replace like with like. If this was a car it would be considered a bad MOT.

nicklouse

did you get them serviced according to Fox's requirements?

Anonymous

Did you get them serviced at all?
I was warned by a few people before I bought my fox forks, that they really aren't an agricultural design. You (and I) are basically getting the same tech as top class racers, and that needs looking after.
It's not just a simple shim-stack in a bath of oil you know.

crimsondynamo

Re: servicing forks and shock - I was advised by two LBSs independently that if they're working fine then leave them well alone. I'm not mechanically minded, and past experiences I've had trying to repair things has invariably made them worse. The advice I received therefore made sense to me. Just to be clear, I did keep everything clean and Fork Juice'd up.

The instant that I noticed something amiss with the forks (even though the action was still smooth) I sent them in, thinking that a stitch in time saves nine. Nevertheless, even the most barely perceptible stanchion wear neccessitates new uppers, at c. £275 in total.

The rear shock this morning was a sudden meltdown, no warning.

From your responses I take it that neglect has been the issue. Sounds like I'll have to take my medicine and be a bit more attentive in future.

Anonymous

Yep, neglect sounds like the cause.
If I remember correctly, Mojo suggest servicing your fox forks/shocks once every year.
AND, each time they're serviced, the work carries an extra 1 year warranty.

I've had barnyard technology Marzocchi forks in the past, with very simple "hole in piston, and shim stack" internals, which worked fine with zero maintenance, but I have no intention of finding out it Fox 36s can be left for years tha same, when so many people suggest they can't (and shouldn't).

Also, ber in mind that most of the stuff that you will hear and read about that you should be putting on the fork stanchions can cause problems as well. It can react with the oil in the shocks, leading to complications. - As can excessive washing.

nicklouse

so 135 hours of use without any service.

mm the fork should have had 2 oil changes by now
and the shox one change.

a major part of any service is not just to change the oil but also to check for wear.
as that can mean that parts like the stanchions do not get damaged.

Not to mention to comply with the warranty conditions.

Sorry you were poorly advised.

ESHER SHORE

you were definitely poorly advised

the service interval on Fox lowers on all their forks is approx 15-20 hours

I do the lower service on my Fox 36 Talas RC2 fork every 4 weeks, and this has kept them running super smooth and prevented any premature wear to the stanchions

I do a lowers service on my Rockshox Pike 454 Air U-Turn every 3-4 months

I have the Fox rear shocks on both my bikes serviced every season, and will be sending my 36 Talas forks to Mojo for a full service when they are 1 year old, and the Pikes have already been back to Fishers for a full service after 1 year.


something to understand with Fox suspension (or any high-end suspension) is that its expensive, performs extremely well when setup right, but does require regular servicing to get the most from it, and protect your investment

suspension tends to slowly degrade if not serviced, so its rarely that it suddenly stops work overnight (between 2 rides) unless you have left it so long that something fails like a seal....

I constantly get customers in my shop, who have done no maintenance on their suspension apart from external cleaning, and wonder why its failed, or requires expensive work at Mojo / TF Tuning

Anonymous

ESHER SHORE wrote:

suspension tends to slowly degrade if not serviced, so its rarely that it suddenly stops work overnight (between 2 rides)

Unless it's a Marzocchi 55 with the TST system

Sgt.Fatknacker

ESHER SHORE wrote:

you were definitely poorly advised

the service interval on Fox lowers on all their forks is approx 15-20 hours

I do the lower service on my Fox 36 Talas RC2 fork every 4 weeks, and this has kept them running super smooth and prevented any premature wear to the stanchions

I do a lowers service on my Rockshox Pike 454 Air U-Turn every 3-4 months

I have the Fox rear shocks on both my bikes serviced every season, and will be sending my 36 Talas forks to Mojo for a full service when they are 1 year old, and the Pikes have already been back to Fishers for a full service after 1 year.


something to understand with Fox suspension (or any high-end suspension) is that its expensive, performs extremely well when setup right, but does require regular servicing to get the most from it, and protect your investment

suspension tends to slowly degrade if not serviced, so its rarely that it suddenly stops work overnight (between 2 rides) unless you have left it so long that something fails like a seal....

I constantly get customers in my shop, who have done no maintenance on their suspension apart from external cleaning, and wonder why its failed, or requires expensive work at Mojo / TF Tuning

I commute an hour a day, plus rides after work and weekends, so if I were to be using Fox forks on my bike, I would need a service every 3 weeks or so? What a crock of sh1t. Suspension forks are a really simple piece of equipment, regular oil changes, (really easy, no special tools needed in my experience, and really cheap unless you use the 'really special rockshox/fox/manitou etc' stuff) are all that's required. That's one of the reasons why I bought a pair of Magura forks for my bike. Just service them once a year !

Anonymous

Commuting is hardly the use that fox forks are designed for though.
Your suspension will be going through absolute hell, when used off road, far more than any road car or motorcycle suspension will be enduring.
HERE is a great video showing what one rider's fork goes through on a single run of the Fort William course.
Road vehicle suspension just doesn't get stressed anywhere near that much.

Likewise, the suspension units on a top class rally car (which is the closest car analogy to your forks/shock) will be binned after an event, and serviced when needed during an event.

I can assure you that if you were riding an MX bike, then the service intervals on forks of such a calibre would be similar. Maybe ever so slightly longer because they can afford to be overbuilt a bit more when there's an engine propelling it.

supersonic

Modern sus forks are quite amazing. We expect flawless performance, long life, and silly light weights. Now, I am damn sure they could make them two out of three, they just make them extremely well built. Add a kilo or two. On a MX bike, or a car, 2 kilos is sweet FA. On a mountain bike it is night an day to some riders. So if you want the latest lightweight kit, be aware that somethings gives.

Anonymous

True, sonic. I used to hear lots of people complaining about the weight of MArzocchi's 888s (the simple, barn door engineering ones). But, it seems they were very popular with people who ride uplifts day in day out, BECAUSE they were so simple. That extra little bit of weight was a tradeoff that was made up for in simplicity and reliability.

supersonic

This is where the RS Domain steps in. They make no bones about the DC model - heavy, to be thrashed.

Northwind

nicklouse wrote:

did you get them serviced according to Fox's requirements?

Does anybody? Always strikes me that the 15 hour service is there mainly so they can get out of warranty claims, since practically nobody follows the official routine. Rockshox have something similiar for that matter.

peter413

Northwind wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

did you get them serviced according to Fox's requirements?

Does anybody? Always strikes me that the 15 hour service is there mainly so they can get out of warranty claims, since practically nobody follows the official routine. Rockshox have something similiar for that matter.

I don't, I've got a set of old F100's that haven't been serviced in probably 3 years and they are still very nice and plush. They're on my dads Caldera now and I'm trying to persuade him to get them serviced (don't wanna chance it any longer) but he's one of these 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' type of people

Anonymous

Your dad's not heard of preventative maintenance then?

Thewaylander

Witht he fox ones it depends on the shock to the length of service the 15-20 hours are vans i believe.

but with Floats its a once a year service, with a basic seals check and change at home every 6 months or so. thats not unreasonable to me.

think about you only need a tiny amount of play in those upper seals for there to be huge ammounts of run on the stansions and boom your forks are trashed in no time. so check them! and give them love.

weescott

I have my 36's serviced every 6 months and also clean the seals and add fresh oil between services. It's easy to do and prevents premature stanchion wear.



If you don't get forks/shock serviced regularly and look after them then you are missing out on some enjoyment from riding them at there optimum performance.

mea00csf

hmm, sounds like i've been reaaallllyyy lucky :?
Had my Rockshox Reba Teams for about 4 years, zero maintenance, no problems.
They had a slight oil leak from the motion control last week so sent to TFTuned for a service (figured it was worth it and a little overdue after 4 years), and they sorted it all out, replaced oil,seals etc and on their notes it said the forks were generally in good condition internally
Probably average about 2-3 hrs a week on those forks..............

Northwind

Thewaylander wrote:

Witht he fox ones it depends on the shock to the length of service the 15-20 hours are vans i believe.

but with Floats its a once a year service, with a basic seals check and change at home every 6 months or so. thats not unreasonable to me.

Er, not according to Fox- the current manual says all forks, check seals and wipers every 15 hours which means partially dismantling the fork (people assume it's a visual check but it's not). Not a huge job but impractically frequent, I'd have had to do it twice on my holiday to france frinstance, or if you solo a 24 hour race you have to do it halfway through, or about every 2 weeks normally for me. Fluid change is every 100 hours, there's no "once a year" since it's all on hours not age though 100 hours could be annual for some people of course.

Course, in practice you'd do what everyone else does and ignore it probably.

peter413

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Your dad's not heard of preventative maintenance then?

Nope

Thewaylander

Northwind wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

Witht he fox ones it depends on the shock to the length of service the 15-20 hours are vans i believe.

but with Floats its a once a year service, with a basic seals check and change at home every 6 months or so. thats not unreasonable to me.

Er, not according to Fox- the current manual says all forks, check seals and wipers every 15 hours which means partially dismantling the fork (people assume it's a visual check but it's not). Not a huge job but impractically frequent, I'd have had to do it twice on my holiday to france frinstance, or if you solo a 24 hour race you have to do it halfway through, or about every 2 weeks normally for me. Fluid change is every 100 hours, there's no "once a year" since it's all on hours not age though 100 hours could be annual for some people of course.

Course, in practice you'd do what everyone else does and ignore it probably.

Which fox forks are you on about? the Vanilla's have a reccomended every 15hours, I know but Floats don't I'm sure because We have both in our household

Northwind

Just look at the 32 manual, it's the same for all models.

Thewaylander

Ah found the fecker,

Ok things have changed a bit but thats a basic dirt check not any work the actuall service intervals are still a year no biggy.

Northwind

Um, not according to the online manuals, there's no annual servicing for any of hte forks. The 15 hour service isn't just a dirt check, it's pull the seals and foam rings, clean them with the electric tape method, clean the foam rings with fluid, relube and reassemble- not a huge job but not nothing. The 100 hour service in 2010 was bushing service and full fluid change but here's the kicker, for 2011 that drops to 30 hours for all forks- there's no fork servicing at all that's over 30 hours.

Mancunianfightingcat

I strip, clean and refresh the oil on my TALAS 32 RLCs every month and have done so for the last 11 months since my stanchions wore and cost me the best part of £300.
Despite this they've still started to wear through again. I phoned Mojo who couldn't have been less helpful and dismissed me telling me it was all down to poor maintenance. I tried to argue the case and insisted that I've serviced them once a month, but the guy wasn't interested and just kept telling me it was down to my lack of care!

I felt like driving down there and ramming the forks down his throat.

I was half tempted to get some Float 36s to see if they're any harder wearing, but I'm so pee'd of with Mojo's attitude that I might just look elsewhere for a replacement!

(goes of to look at BOS forks website and drools!)

supersonic

One thing I found on fox forks are that the adjusters are poor. RS gets a lot of stick for their rebound adjusters, but the FOX leg top dials are very flimsy, looks like a spot weld on a very thin alloy shaft.

Andy B

Which Fox forks are you on about Sonic?

The Talas/lockout adjusters I have used on many Fox forks have been just as good as RS ones.

supersonic

Vanilla R rebound adjuster. The worst designed adjuster I have seen on any fork ever. Nasty.

Anonymous

ive never seen the inside of fox forks but i always thought the adjusters were the best in the business.

Andy B

supersonic wrote:

Vanilla R rebound adjuster. The worst designed adjuster I have seen on any fork ever. Nasty.

So on the basis of one fork you are willing to say that all Fox forks have poor quality & badly designed adjusters....

In that case, all Rockshox forks are crap, based on the performance of the Dart 2 I once looked at in a shop window