The failed logic of "never tested positive"
whiteboytrash
Posts: 594
The irony of the “never tested positive” logic applied by those defending Armstrong is that Floyd says he doped all his career and passed ever test bar the one stage in the 2006 Tour. Does that mean he’s lying about his doping? That is was actually clean all those years? He must have been clean because he passed all those tests. Or does the “never tested positive” rule only apply to Armstrong?
The logic can’t be applied both ways. Either we need to state Floyd was clean all those years and only used once and tested positive or both he and Armstrong were involved and practiced in a systematic doping network and worked around the tests as described by Landis.
Is Floyd lying about his doping and he was actually clean until that once instance in 2006 Tour where he took testosterone?
The logic can’t be applied both ways. Either we need to state Floyd was clean all those years and only used once and tested positive or both he and Armstrong were involved and practiced in a systematic doping network and worked around the tests as described by Landis.
Is Floyd lying about his doping and he was actually clean until that once instance in 2006 Tour where he took testosterone?
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yet another forum anti-doping warrior above...this stuff has been talked/argued to death already :roll:0
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Erm.
No. Look at the testimony of Frei or Kohl. They'd passed loads of tests while juicing. The general opinion on testing is if you get caught you're either stupid or unlucky.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I find these anti-Lance "cultists" about as odd as the pro ones.
I think the guy doped and I hope justice is done in the current investigation. But this zeal (from both sides) to "convert" non-believers? I don't get it. Now, if someone says to me, "Well, I think he was clean", I'm just like "Whatever. We'll see." This case isn't being tried in the court of public opinion, why should I care so much what other folk want to think?
By the way, Landis was a pretty handy (clean) bike rider, if he did well in the Dauphine in the early 2000s, before his introduction to PEDs as he claims.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
but if lance is guilty because "everyone does it" and only the stupid ones get caught, is that wrong?
Isn't that the level playing field? isn't that all it's really about?0 -
italiafirenze wrote:but if lance is guilty because "everyone does it" and only the stupid ones get caught, is that wrong?
Isn't that the level playing field? isn't that all it's really about?
An explanation to the answers of your questions exist on just about every cycling forum that exists on the internet. Just go out and try to find them. The answers to the 3 questions are Yes, No and No in case you can't be bothered (I wouldn't blame you).Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
Great! We've settled it. Never testing positive doesn't mean "didn't dope". Thanks everyone for the input.0
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What, and this needed a debate?Le Blaireau (1)0
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whiteboytrash wrote:The irony of the “never tested positive” logic applied by those defending Armstrong is..........
I think you're making a basic mistake by thinking that there are lots of people on this forum who are defending LA. You may be mistaking people who are simply saying "show me what ya got that will stand up in court in front of a jury", for the oft mentioned, yet somewhat mysterious, fanboys.
Remember that withholding evidence is a crime and you seem to talk as if you have some evidence in this case and so do more than a few others. If you've got the straight flush, you need to play your hand. Why wouldn't you? Get some courage and step up with what you have.
Don't mistake the reading of a few cycling books and internet forums as solid, iron clad evidence. You can't be that ignorant.0 -
dennisn wrote:
Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
dulldave wrote:dennisn wrote:
Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.
Good point. I don't believe I've ever said that I KNEW someone on this forum was an idiot.
I seem to recall saying something more like I THINK someone was an idiot. Huge difference, this KNOWING something and THINKING you know something. It sort of one of the reasons I post on all this LA stuff. Some people claim to KNOW all about it. I'm thinking that they only THINK they know.0 -
dulldave wrote:dennisn wrote:
Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.
Being ignorant is not a crime though so its unlikley he would be ever be convicted of that. Its a bit like me saying something like your are one ugly f*cker its all really a matter of opinion.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:dulldave wrote:Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.
Being ignorant is not a crime though so its unlikley he would be ever be convicted of that. Its a bit like me saying something like your are one ugly f*cker its all really a matter of opinion.
Hey dennis, an opinion on the forum! Sic, boy, sic!0 -
afx237vi wrote:Moray Gub wrote:dulldave wrote:Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.
Being ignorant is not a crime though so its unlikley he would be ever be convicted of that. Its a bit like me saying something like your are one ugly f*cker its all really a matter of opinion.
Hey dennis, an opinion on the forum! Sic, boy, sic!
Great place to spend some time. I'm always learning something new, weird, or different on the many, many, different topics, questions, and answers. Even all the LA ranting stuff is fun.0 -
Moray Gub wrote:dulldave wrote:dennisn wrote:
Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.
Being ignorant is not a crime though so its unlikley he would be ever be convicted of that. Its a bit like me saying something like your are one ugly f*cker its all really a matter of opinion.
This is a very good point. Its similar to saying Floyd lacks credibility. Its an opinion not a point of law. Thank-you for the clarity.0 -
whiteboytrash wrote:Moray Gub wrote:dulldave wrote:dennisn wrote:
Well I guess until he gets convicted in court of being ignorant neither of you will ever know.
Being ignorant is not a crime though so its unlikley he would be ever be convicted of that. Its a bit like me saying something like your are one ugly f*cker its all really a matter of opinion.
This is a very good point. Its similar to saying Floyd lacks credibility. Its an opinion not a point of law. Thank-you for the clarity.
Who said it was a point of law ? Certainly not me my point to you in the other thread was you were claiming 8 years of tax evasion based on basically sweet f*ck all ,sure its your opinion but it was based on nothing.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lan ... 8173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.0 -
whiteboytrash wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.
This stuff has been floating around for years.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:whiteboytrash wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.
This stuff has been floating around for years.
It has been around for years, it's just being reported by more mainstream press and is coming back into light because of this investigation. Some of us chose to believe it at the time, others didn't.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
dulldave wrote:Moray Gub wrote:whiteboytrash wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.
This stuff has been floating around for years.
It has been around for years, it's just being reported by more mainstream press and is coming back into light because of this investigation. Some of us chose to believe it at the time, others didn't.
As was said in another thread its all totally irrelvant in the case of misuse of public funds as at that time LA was not employed by an orginisation that used public funds.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
whiteboytrash wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.
What century or time warp are you living in? If this is news to you, I think you need to get out more.0 -
dennisn wrote:whiteboytrash wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.
What century or time warp are you living in? If this is news to you, I think you need to get out more.
This is probably news to him because he has gotten out more
Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
dulldave wrote:dennisn wrote:whiteboytrash wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
Oh do its all gone wrong now.
The woman says she has given a federal investigator her account of hearing the superstar cyclist confess to doctors about use of performance-enhancing drugs. She says voice mails bolstering her claim are in government hands.
The woman who claims to have heard Lance Armstrong tell cancer doctors in 1996 he had previously used performance-enhancing drugs has repeated her account to the federal investigator leading the probe into whether the seven-time Tour de France winner and other cyclists doped.
Betsy Andreu also told The Times that the government has obtained recorded voice mails left on Andreu's message machine by Stephanie McIlvain, a representative of Oakley Inc., a longtime Armstrong sponsor. Andreu said those recordings indicated McIlvain lied when testifying that she hadn't heard Armstrong admit using drugs. Repeated attempts to reach McIlvain, who was with Betsy Andreu and her cyclist husband, Frankie, when they said they heard Armstrong confess to doping, were unsuccessful.
What century or time warp are you living in? If this is news to you, I think you need to get out more.
This is probably news to him because he has gotten out more
Could be. :? :?0
