Stage Race - Final Stage

robert-sb

Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but, here goes ...

Has a handicap stage ever been tried for a final stage in any race ie the rider who is leading by 39 secs starts first, the next rider starts at 39 seconds, the third rider starts however far behind rider 2 that he is etc. This means that the first rider across the line is the winner.

If not, would this work ? The biggest problem I can see is the starting time of riders 3 hours behind on GC means the stage would go on for a long time but maybe you say only those within 1 hour of the leader qualify for this stage.

Kléber

Why?

If this was the case then I'd ride every mountain stage by stopping for lunch, preferably washed down by a local wine. Come the final stage, I'd be 25 hours down and would take the overall win.

dougzz

Kléber wrote:

Why?

If this was the case then I'd ride every mountain stage by stopping for lunch, preferably washed down by a local wine. Come the final stage, I'd be 25 hours down and would take the overall win.

How would you take the win, being 25 hours down you don't get to start the final stage according to robert-sb's suggestion.

stueyh

39 seconds isn't a massive advantage to hold out over the course of a complete stage. Basically the other podium challengers teams would wait for each other, work together to claw back the leader who is dying 39 seconds off the front.

The only way it would work would be to do a kind of reverse time trial I guess, where no drafting is allowed. But it would still be sh*t.

Kléber

dougzz wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Why?

If this was the case then I'd ride every mountain stage by stopping for lunch, preferably washed down by a local wine. Come the final stage, I'd be 25 hours down and would take the overall win.

How would you take the win, being 25 hours down you don't get to start the final stage according to robert-sb's suggestion.

I was exaggerating to make a point but you would know you'd have an advantage on the final day and could play with this.

Plus practically you can't set riders off at their time gaps as they would soon collaborate, two riders down by one minute could easily haul back time on one rider.

William H

Do it up a steep climb like Alpe d'huez, and it would work.

Too flat or too long, and it would neutralise the rest of the race.

RichN95.

I'll admit I've had the same idea in the past, having seen the same format used in the final event (running) in the modern pentathlon.

I wouldn't recommend for a big race, but it would be worth trying on a smaller stage race as an alternative to a final time trial, just to see if it works. I would ban drafting, although as any ironman will tell you, this will be abused if there aren't enough officials.

Of course, large time gaps make for a dull race after the first few finishers, but this could be helped if it was just restricted to the top 30.

The biggest problem is the logistics of getting all of the riders off at the appropriate time. The issue isn't so much with the riders as the team cars. There's big potential for complete chaos.

I'd like to see someone give it a try though.

afx237vi

If you ban drafting, it'd be chaos. What if you have 3 riders on the same overall time?

chriskempton

afx237vi wrote:

If you ban drafting, it'd be chaos. What if you have 3 riders on the same overall time?

+1 you can't ban drafting between evenly matched riders starting close to each other. That's why elite olympic distance triathlon bike legs are draft legal - it just gets impossible to marshall it fairly.

robert-sb

Kléber wrote:

Why?

If this was the case then I'd ride every mountain stage by stopping for lunch, preferably washed down by a local wine. Come the final stage, I'd be 25 hours down and would take the overall win.

Sorry, couldn't have explained it properly as in this case you would start the stage 25 hours after the leading rider - if you could take the win in that instance you must have a time machine :shock:

RichN95.

OK, here's a scenario.

Take the ENECO Tour. A fairly dull race generally decided by the dull, standard final time trial.

Instead of the final 16km time trial, we have the suggested format, but on a 3-4km circuit based around a town, so 4-6 laps to race. The top 30 were separated by 4 minutes, so only they get to race for GC (or as many riders can go off before the first lap is complete).

No teams cars on the course, just neutral service points every 300m or so. (We're doing this on standard road bikes). Commisaires positioned at similar intervals with the power to give a 'stop-go' penalty for drafting (the roads need to be quite wide to allow riders to avoid this). First across the line wins.

It might be a shambles, but then it might not. If it worked it would be more exciting and visual than a standard TT and would give ENECO it's own characteristic.

It's worth trying in one non-descript 2.2 race at least, just to see what happens.

moray_gub

RichN95 wrote:

OK, here's a scenario.

Take the ENECO Tour. A fairly dull race generally decided by the dull, standard final time trial.

Instead of the final 16km time trial, we have the suggested format, but on a 3-4km circuit based around a town, so 4-6 laps to race. The top 30 were separated by 4 minutes, so only they get to race for GC (or as many riders can go off before the first lap is complete).

No teams cars on the course, just neutral service points every 300m or so. (We're doing this on standard road bikes). Commisaires positioned at similar intervals with the power to give a 'stop-go' penalty for drafting (the roads need to be quite wide to allow riders to avoid this). First across the line wins.

It might be a shambles, but then it might not. If it worked it would be more exciting and visual than a standard TT and would give ENECO it's own characteristic.

It's worth trying in one non-descript 2.2 race at least, just to see what happens.

This seems change for changes sake a lot of week long stage races can be dull and be decided by the final time trial dont see the problem with the races they way they are .This idea is almost akin to the 1970s US Soccer League penalty from the half way line nonsense, nope not for me.

RichN95.

Moray Gub wrote:

This seems change for changes sake a lot of week long stage races can be dull and be decided by the final time trial dont see the problem with the races they way they are .This idea is almost akin to the 1970s US Soccer League penalty from the half way line nonsense, nope not for me.

It's not change for change's sake. It's innovation. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. History and tradition obviously have a big play in sport, particularly in cycling. But if sports stay dogmatically wedded to these ideals then they will ultimately suffer. For every US penalties failure, there's a Twenty20 cricket success.

I have plenty of other modernising ideas to infuriate the traditionalists.

moray_gub

RichN95 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

This seems change for changes sake a lot of week long stage races can be dull and be decided by the final time trial dont see the problem with the races they way they are .This idea is almost akin to the 1970s US Soccer League penalty from the half way line nonsense, nope not for me.

It's not change for change's sake. It's innovation. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. History and tradition obviously have a big play in sport, particularly in cycling. But if sports stay dogmatically wedded to these ideals then they will ultimately suffer. For every US penalties failure, there's a Twenty20 cricket success.

I have plenty of other modernising ideas to infuriate the traditionalists.

I really dont see the need for change based on a dull week long stage race we have had them for years they are part of the sport dont see how sticking with that makes the sport suffer . Apart from the amount of overs each side gets whats different about Twenty-20 from say a one day game ?

RichN95.

Moray Gub wrote:

Apart from the amount of overs each side gets whats different about Twenty-20 from say a one day game ?

What's different is that you can hold an entire match in an evening, so people can watch it after a day at work, or two or three games in a day on the same ground. As a TV sport it lasts much less time and has no DMOs (dull middle overs) that the 50 over format has.

The traditionalists were horrified, but it's saved cricket financially and attracts the youngsters to the sport.

The general format of many bike races of: break, catch, sprint - played out over 4-5 hours, will eventually kill cycling as a TV sport. A Twenty20 style revolution will be needed sometime in cycling.

B3rnieMac

....i don't know why, but this final stage suggestion reminds me of ITV's Gladiators. Maybe we could have referee John Anderson blowing a whistle to set off each rider?