45 mph on an Alpine Decent. Brakes Fail. What to do?
Comments
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I could go more slowly and not brake. However I think I would get to the bottom more slowly.
That's what you do if you have no brakes.0 -
cakewalk wrote:Weejie54 wrote:and the rest!! 45mph isn't super fast and I don't even want to consider losing my brakes at that speed
Why build up that speed if you use your brakes? Right enough, if you needed to stop, but the question was simply what you would do if your brakes failed. You shouldn't need them.
Descending Galibier I hit, I think 45. (lot of people we gong past me ...)
I need to brake for some corners at that speed.
I could go more slowly and not brake. However I think I would get to the bottom more slowly.
When I was on the Galibier it was very foggy, visibiltiy was down to about 40m.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:I could go more slowly and not brake. However I think I would get to the bottom more slowly.
That's what you do if you have no brakes.
Sorry - get your point. However the pub conversation related to sudden brake failure at speed.
Anyone fancy a 'Describe Your Worst Crash' thread?"I thought of it while riding my bicycle."0 -
Already done mine!0
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From my exciting holiday in Austria earlier this month. My brakes were working but with gravel on the bend in the road the didn't do much good. I was probably doing around 40mph
Hit the barrier, hit the barrier support, hit the concrete pillar, let your face slow you down.
Have a passing motorist call the helicopter.
22 hours in intensive care,
11 more days in hospital.
7 more days off work (and counting!)
Thank goodness Austrian health care is good.
Rips to liver and both kidneys, 2 broken ribs, deep lacerations to my bicep, about 40 stitches overall.
Best to make sure your brakes work and the road is clear.0 -
dfbpdave wrote:From my exciting holiday in Austria earlier this month. My brakes were working but with gravel on the bend in the road the didn't do much good. I was probably doing around 40mph
Hit the barrier, hit the barrier support, hit the concrete pillar, let your face slow you down.
Have a passing motorist call the helicopter.
22 hours in intensive care,
11 more days in hospital.
7 more days off work (and counting!)
Thank goodness Austrian health care is good.
Rips to liver and both kidneys, 2 broken ribs, deep lacerations to my bicep, about 40 stitches overall.
Best to make sure your brakes work and the road is clear.
That's put me right of my tea.
Are you fully fit & back on a bike?"I thought of it while riding my bicycle."0 -
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NapoleonD wrote:This is the graph of what happened to me...
Blue line is speed...
Lost the the back end at just over 40mph (max was 44 but resolution of graph doesn't show this) due to rear locking up on gravel. Straight into the verge. Broke my right leg in 3 places. Note the date!!
What's the red line?0 -
The orangey line is the altitude.0
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dfbpdave wrote:From my exciting holiday in Austria earlier this month. My brakes were working but with gravel on the bend in the road the didn't do much good. I was probably doing around 40mph
Hit the barrier, hit the barrier support, hit the concrete pillar, let your face slow you down.
Have a passing motorist call the helicopter.
22 hours in intensive care,
11 more days in hospital.
7 more days off work (and counting!)
Thank goodness Austrian health care is good.
Rips to liver and both kidneys, 2 broken ribs, deep lacerations to my bicep, about 40 stitches overall.
Best to make sure your brakes work and the road is clear.
That's put me right of my tea.
Are you fully fit & back on a bike?"I thought of it while riding my bicycle."0 -
cakewalk wrote:Are you fully fit & back on a bike?
Nope, it's going to be a couple of weeks at least before I dare to go out on the road again, my body isn't up to it yet. I'm hoping to get on the turbo next week but only for some very easy work.
The physio is my new best friend and worst enemy in one.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:and the rest!! 45mph isn't super fast and I don't even want to consider losing my brakes at that speed
Why build up that speed if you use your brakes? Right enough, if you needed to stop, but the question was simply what you would do if your brakes failed. You shouldn't need them.
ask Lewis Hamilton why he gets up to 200mph and then brakes for a corner, it's what you do!! If I can get round a bend at 40km/h, then I'm not going to ride the whole descent at that speed just so I don't need to brake. I'm going to use gravity to help me after all it didn't do me any favours on the other side!!
I'm not pedalling to get to those speeds, after 60km/h it's all about aerodynamics anyway. I hit 80km/h all the time, brake for a hairpin, release the brakes, bank it over, out the other side, 10 swift turns of the crank, back into the aero position heading for the next hairpin. if it's a sweeping bend then you can get round it with a good line but anything more than 80 degrees and I feel I need to scrub some speed. It all depends on width of the road, how well you can see round the corner, whether it's safe to cross onto the other side to improve the line, but on a descent I want my brakes!!0 -
ask Lewis Hamilton why he gets up to 200mph and then brakes for a corner,
On a push bike?but on a descent I want my brakes!!
I'm sure we all do, but do you need them? If you lost them, would you pedal like a loony on a descent? If Lewis Hamilton lost his brakes, would he 'get up to 200mph'?0 -
Didn't realise there was a red line on there!!
If so, it's HR.
The graph is from a program called WKO+
It normally shows Power and Cadence too... I wasn't using my powertap on that ride though.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:ask Lewis Hamilton why he gets up to 200mph and then brakes for a corner,
On a push bike?but on a descent I want my brakes!!
I'm sure we all do, but do you need them? If you lost them, would you pedal like a loony on a descent? If Lewis Hamilton lost his brakes, would he 'get up to 200mph'?
Of course not on a push bike, I was just using that as a non cycling example of going fast on a straight section and braking for a bend.
Read the original question!! It was what if you are already doing 45mph and then your brakes fail. Not would you ride at 45mph without brakes? It was a hypothetical question from the OP that an an alpine descent where speeds are regularly over 45mph and you apply your brakes to slow down for a bend, what would you do if both brake cables snapped.
The answer is that it would be very scary and would probably end up resulting in serious injury, as one forum member has already testified from his recent trip to Austria.0 -
If my brakes failed at speed, I'd probably start crying.0
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it is pretty easy to get 45mph in the mountains without being stupid, however i did ease up on the corners that have big drops behind them just in case, if my brakes were to fail i think i would try to find a run off or are grass bank to bail into, if i could do that i would use y feet, although holding onto a car as they brake does sound like a good idea0
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Of course not on a push bike, I was just using that as a non cycling example of going fast on a straight section and braking for a bend.
Yep. During a race.Read the original question!! It was what if you are already doing 45mph and then your brakes fail. Not would you ride at 45mph without brakes. It was a hypothetical question from the OP that an an alpine descent where speeds are regularly over 45mph and you apply your brakes to slow down for a bend, what would you do if both brake cables snapped.
Actually, I did read the original post, and it didn't mention a bend. I agreed with another poster who suggested that:
If you continue to pedal, you are not being smart.the road will invariably level out for you to slow down naturally. Maintaining 40mph+ is the difficult bit!
That poster had working brakes. The accident was due to gravel.The answer is that it would be very scary and would probably end up resulting in serious injury, as one forum member has already testified from his recent trip to Austria.0 -
it is pretty easy to get 45mph in the mountains without being stupid,
I regularly cycle at 47mph without visiting the Alps. I don't regard myself as being stupid. However, I do maintain my brakes (the chances of both cables snapping are minimal), and if I felt my chances of braking were impeded, I wouldn't continue to pedal, I would sit upright, and I've yet to find a stretch of road here in northern Scotland where I would not eventually slow down enough to stop without brakes.0 -
but still shows the injuries sustained by an accident at speedWeejie54 wrote:Of course not on a push bike, I was just using that as a non cycling example of going fast on a straight section and braking for a bend.Yep. During a race.
OK, on Sunday our club had a tour which did 3 passes. On the decent from the first one we all (8 of us) came down in a line with a max speed of 78.9 according to my garmin. We weren't racing.Read the original question!! It was what if you are already doing 45mph and then your brakes fail. Not would you ride at 45mph without brakes. It was a hypothetical question from the OP that an an alpine descent where speeds are regularly over 45mph and you apply your brakes to slow down for a bend, what would you do if both brake cables snapped.Actually, I did read the original post, and it didn't mention a bend. I agreed with another poster who suggested that:
If you continue to pedal, you are not being smart.the road will invariably level out for you to slow down naturally. Maintaining 40mph+ is the difficult bit!
How many long european (i.e. alpine) descents are there without hairpin bends? Have you ever ridden an alpine pass, they don't all just roll out slowly. For example I dare anyone to come down the east side of the Grimselpass without brakes. you'll come out at T-Junction and end up head first in the wall of a hotel!!
If your brake cables were to snap, then it would likely happen when you apply your brakes about 50-70 m from the bend. If you lose both brakes at that point then you are screwed. At 70km/h with 70m braking distance you have 3.6 seconds to sort it. Assuming a reaction time of half a second, 3 seconds to unclip and drag your foot on the rear wheel is not much!
That poster had working brakes. The accident was due to gravel.The answer is that it would be very scary and would probably end up resulting in serious injury, as one forum member has already testified from his recent trip to Austria.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:it is pretty easy to get 45mph in the mountains without being stupid,
I regularly cycle at 47mph without visiting the Alps. I don't regard myself as being stupid. However, I do maintain my brakes (the chances of both cables snapping are minimal), and if I felt my chances of braking were impeded, I wouldn't continue to pedal, I would sit upright, and I've yet to find a stretch of road here in northern Scotland where I would not eventually slow down enough to stop without brakes.
Agree that would work most places. But not all places."I thought of it while riding my bicycle."0 -
That poster had working brakes. The accident was due to gravel.The answer is that it would be very scary and would probably end up resulting in serious injury, as one forum member has already testified from his recent trip to Austria.
Don't forget excessive speed (for the conditions and corner), over-confidence and fatigue. But yes, I'd like to think that gravel was the main cause. Live and learn.0 -
OK, on Sunday our club had a tour which did 3 passes. On the decent from the first one we all (8 of us) came down in a line with a max speed of 78.9 according to my garmin. We weren't racing.
You had to work at building that speed. You might not have been in a race, but you were essentially conscious of time. This is beyond the OP's original concept.
There are a fair few Scottish ones too. However, if you haven't considered how important your brakes are when you ride to the limits on a descent, and psyched up on the risk factor of hurtling towards a hairpin before applying those brakes, then I suggest you take up tiddlywinks. Basically, both brake cables shouldn't snap if they are properly maintained - and someone who regularly makes fast descents at more than 'coasting' speed would be expected to maintain the brakes.How many long european (i.e. alpine) descents are there without hairpin bends?Have you ever ridden an alpine pass,
I have. Not only by bicycle, but in a fully loaded truck.
I hardly think that anyone is suggesting deliberately going out of their way to descend a mountain without brakes, let alone for a 'dare'. Did you read the OP?For example I dare anyone to come down the east side of the Grimselpass without brakes.you'll come out at T-Junction and end up head first in the wall of a hotel!!
I can think of a good few Scottish descents with T junctions too. I wouldn't be riding them unless I was absolutely sure my brakes were in perfect order. I don't recall the OP mentioning hotels though.
Your brake cables might snap when you leave the cafe and stop to see if there is any traffic coming on the main road. I think you are trying to blind with science. I trust that your skill in performing calculations stretches to the risk factor in leaving home with less than optimum cable maintenance. Further to weighing up such risks in approaching hairpins at maximum speed, and not bricking it - i.e. the philosophy of fate.If your brake cables were to snap, then it would likely happen when you apply your brakes about 50-70 m from the bend. If you lose both brakes at that point then you are screwed. At 70km/h with 70m braking distance you have 3.6 seconds to sort it. Assuming a reaction time of half a second, 3 seconds to unclip and drag your foot on the rear wheel is not much!
You forgot the bit in the OP about the truck coming the other way.but still shows the injuries sustained by an accident at speed
I didn't realise you could sustain injuries at speed. Is that what the original post is hinting at?0 -
Agree that would work most places. But not all places.
Absolutely. However, Balthazar brought to attention the good chance that this would be the case. If it happened when you were hurtling towards a hairpin, a herd of elephants or an alien spacecraft that had decided to land in front of you, it would be different.
It can pay not to tempt providence in some instances.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:OK, on Sunday our club had a tour which did 3 passes. On the decent from the first one we all (8 of us) came down in a line with a max speed of 78.9 according to my garmin. We weren't racing.
You had to work at building that speed. You might not have been in a race, but you were essentially conscious of time. This is beyond the OP's original concept.
There are a fair few Scottish ones too. However, if you haven't considered how important your brakes are when you ride to the limits on a descent, and psyched up on the risk factor of hurtling towards a hairpin before applying those brakes, then I suggest you take up tiddlywinks. Basically, both brake cables shouldn't snap if they are properly maintained - and someone who regularly makes fast descents at more than 'coasting' speed would be expected to maintain the brakes.How many long european (i.e. alpine) descents are there without hairpin bends?Have you ever ridden an alpine pass,
I have. Not only by bicycle, but in a fully loaded truck.
I hardly think that anyone is suggesting deliberately going out of their way to descend a mountain without brakes, let alone for a 'dare'. Did you read the OP?For example I dare anyone to come down the east side of the Grimselpass without brakes.you'll come out at T-Junction and end up head first in the wall of a hotel!!
I can think of a good few Scottish descents with T junctions too. I wouldn't be riding them unless I was absolutely sure my brakes were in perfect order. I don't recall the OP mentioning hotels though.
Your brake cables might snap when you leave the cafe and stop to see if there is any traffic coming on the main road. I think you are trying to blind with science. I trust that your skill in performing calculations stretches to the risk factor in leaving home with less than optimum cable maintenance. Further to weighing up such risks in approaching hairpins at maximum speed, and not bricking it - i.e. the philosophy of fate.If your brake cables were to snap, then it would likely happen when you apply your brakes about 50-70 m from the bend. If you lose both brakes at that point then you are screwed. At 70km/h with 70m braking distance you have 3.6 seconds to sort it. Assuming a reaction time of half a second, 3 seconds to unclip and drag your foot on the rear wheel is not much!
You forgot the bit in the OP about the truck coming the other way.but still shows the injuries sustained by an accident at speed
I didn't realise you could sustain injuries at speed. Is that what the original post is hinting at?
Oh why, oh why is it raining?
Why am I stuck inside arguing the point about a hypothtical question about losing both brakes on a fast descent? It is a what if...? Not what are the chances of...?
Yes I do maintain my bikes, yes I do check the brakes/brake cables regularly, yes I am aware of my speed, yes I am aware or the cosequences of my speed, yes I do ride alpine passes almost every day as my commute to work has the last 3 bends of one. yes hitting 80km/h can be done by freewheeling between hairpins on many passes, yes you were the one who started talking about continuing to pedal after a brake failure, yes if the hypothetical situation raised by the OP did occur I would probably die!
It's Friday night, it's raining, so I'm off to sample some of the liquid delights of your country. Tschuss0 -
Is it me or has weejie missed the point... By a long way....0
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yes if the hypothetical situation raised by the OP did occur I would probably die!
Well, if you were approaching a hairpin, it does seem possible. No point crapping yourself then. It's fate.It's Friday night, it's raining, so I'm off to sample some of the liquid delights of your country. Tschuss
Sláinte. Watch the mountain passes on your way home.0 -
Is it me or has weejie missed the point... By a long way....
Never miss the point. My brakes pull me up in good time.
I think the point was that it depends on the circumstances.
Any decent Alpine will testify to that.0
