Cheap TT frames from China

Si C

Is there anyone on here that has purchased one of these cheap carbon TT frames from China?

If so, any good?

Coffey01

by cheap I presume you are meaning the £350 odd quid ones plus postage on E-bay?? I would like to know this too, either going to build ip my own TT bike or just purhase a ready built one ready for next year.

Si C

Coffey01 wrote:

by cheap I presume you are meaning the £350 odd quid ones plus postage on E-bay?? I would like to know this too, either going to build ip my own TT bike or just purhase a ready built one ready for next year.

Yep...there the ones.

I'm assuming a copy of an exisiting frame.

Does make you wonder if the factory that produces these also manufactures for well known brands. They look great from the pictures.

andyrr

I got one from Taiwan about 3 years ago - cost to the door was around £500 with better exchange rate. I got charged full duty etc, probably save a tiny bit at the time, frame was the same as the then P-X and Ridley Lotto team TT frame.
Price now seems a little cheaper and if you can avoid paying all the charges then you'll be better off than me but having said that P-X frames are often available around the £400 mark which would be a less risky option.

sub55

http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48697

Si C

With a few hours internet fishing, I think I'm right in saying that the same factory also supplies Pinarello, Bianchi and others.

Just goes to show how powerful some of these brand are. Would you ride an unbadged Prince frame if it cost you £500?

markos1963

I have been looking at these frames for a while now and would be very interested in one so watching this space carefully. The price is amazing if you can get them in without the duty,
I have seen some ali' frames on ebay for £170 and by the time you add in a set of decent forks you're almost up to the same amount and the ali' frame didn't have internal cables or horizontal dropouts.
As for the ealier post re. aerodynamics I think if its carefully set up then it shouldn't be any different than a lot of cheaper TT frames out there, PX for instance, after all the most inportant aero factor is the rider so its the position you get on it rather than how smooth the tubes are.

joewhitebaby

The problem with some of these frames is that they use poor quality carbon which will damage quite easily, and won't perform as well as a decent aluminium frame in terms of stiffness and weight.
The frames themselves are often pieced together from designs "borrowed" from other companies, which can unfortunately make them perform badly as the different sections of the frames are not made to work well with eachother.
Almost all frames are made in Taiwan now, and that's not a bad thing, they're the world leaders in carbon fibre manufacturing. Companies that are importing and rebadging frames usually pick the best ones they can, or the good companies do at least, and you can't go too wrong with these for price and value, and you'll also get your warranty too that way.

Chip \'oyler

joewhitebaby wrote:

The problem with some of these frames is that they use poor quality carbon which will damage quite easily, and won't perform as well as a decent aluminium frame in terms of stiffness and weight.
The frames themselves are often pieced together from designs "borrowed" from other companies, which can unfortunately make them perform badly as the different sections of the frames are not made to work well with eachother.
Almost all frames are made in Taiwan now, and that's not a bad thing, they're the world leaders in carbon fibre manufacturing. Companies that are importing and rebadging frames usually pick the best ones they can, or the good companies do at least, and you can't go too wrong with these for price and value, and you'll also get your warranty too that way.

Exactly. It really does amaze me that people would want to know the quality of steel or aluminium tubing on a chosen frame, but aren't bothered about what grade of carbon is used on a frame, never mind how it's been layed up!

People seem fixated with having a carbon frame no matter how cheap. We all know that a £250 steel frame won't have the same quality tubing, or ride as a £1,000 steel frame. Carbon is no different.

andyrr

But we know that some of the carbon frames are sold at greatly varying prices, depending on what name is stuck on it.
I am certain that my Taiwan-direct sourced frame is the exact same as P-X sold as their TT frame a couple of years ago and also is the exact same as Ridley-badged frame that the Lotto team (inc Cadel Evans) rode in the TdF 3 or 4 years ago.

My understanding is that creating the mold for a carbon frame is relatively expensive part and that may well be fronted by the big-name frame 'maker' and then the factory utilising the mold goes off and uses the same mold to supply frames to whoever pays them the money to have a frame produced using that mold.

Si C

I think the power of branding comes into play here.

So many are comforted by the 'badge' on their bikes. Who's to say the same Asian factories don't build their generic unbranded frames with the same level of TLC and materials?

Chip \'oyler

andyrr wrote:

But we know that some of the carbon frames are sold at greatly varying prices, depending on what name is stuck on it.
I am certain that my Taiwan-direct sourced frame is the exact same as P-X sold as their TT frame a couple of years ago and also is the exact same as Ridley-badged frame that the Lotto team (inc Cadel Evans) rode in the TdF 3 or 4 years ago.

My understanding is that creating the mold for a carbon frame is relatively expensive part and that may well be fronted by the big-name frame 'maker' and then the factory utilising the mold goes off and uses the same mold to supply frames to whoever pays them the money to have a frame produced using that mold.

But do you know what quality of carbon mix is being dropped into the mold's though?

Chip \'oyler

Si C wrote:

I think the power of branding comes into play here.

So many are comforted by the 'badge' on their bikes. Who's to say the same Asian factories don't build their generic unbranded frames with the same level of TLC and materials?

And who's to say they don't?

skooshy

But who does the R&D, this is fundemental to all aspects of any manufacture supply chain. If you assume that the above is correct and big brands use these frames then it is also safe to assume that patent resides with the frame manufacturer but this simply cant be the case or every generic bike would have waves lines like the Pin 60.1 so there must be some sort of copy right or patent protecting not only the brand but the design of the frame.

I for one suspect that just like any other manufacturing supply chain its all about cost and nothing but cost, the location of the build has little or nothing to do with the speciality of individual builders or designer(these people can be internationaly mobile) it has to do with which country invested in the factories, provided tax breaks and has cheap labour. You just have to look at Apple as an example, designed in the US build in China because it costs them less to build and ipod there than it does to buy a box of noodles from a state side deli.

Skooshy

Si C

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Si C wrote:

I think the power of branding comes into play here.

So many are comforted by the 'badge' on their bikes. Who's to say the same Asian factories don't build their generic unbranded frames with the same level of TLC and materials?

And who's to say they don't?

Exactly...we just don't know

Si C

skooshy wrote:

But who does the R&D, this is fundemental to all aspects of any manufacture supply chain. If you assume that the above is correct and big brands use these frames then it is also safe to assume that patent resides with the frame manufacturer but this simply cant be the case or every generic bike would have waves lines like the Pin 60.1 so there must be some sort of copy right or patent protecting not only the brand but the design of the frame.

I for one suspect that just like any other manufacturing supply chain its all about cost and nothing but cost, the location of the build has little or nothing to do with the speciality of individual builders or designer(these people can be internationaly mobile) it has to do with which country invested in the factories, provided tax breaks and has cheap labour. You just have to look at Apple as an example, designed in the US build in China because it costs them less to build and ipod there than it does to buy a box of noodles from a state side deli.

Skooshy

That's all very true, and I totally agree with you. Cervelo, Pinarello, Bianchi they all have their carbon frames built in China...my point is, why do we assume the unbranded factory 'own design' or amalgamations of other designs are no good just because they don't have a recognised brand name on them.

skooshy

Si C wrote:

That's all very true, and I totally agree with you. Cervelo, Pinarello, Bianchi they all have their carbon frames built in China...my point is, why do we assume the unbranded factory 'own design' or amalgamations of other designs are no good just because they don't have a recognised brand name on them.

I'm with you on that one, I doubt very much that for your average Joe the wavey lines on the Pin's etc make a blind bit of difference. Ive got a cheap carbon and I like it, I'm sure if I tried an expensive carbon it would feel different but the only reason I would think that different would mean better is because it cost 3 x the price.

Maybe the other thing I am saying is that the IPhone is a peice of crap and the only reason people like it is because it looks flashy and costs 500 quid, ok that might be for a different forum but I think I just compared an Pinarello Dogma to an IPhone

andyrr

If you are considering one of the cheap, carbon frames then my advice would be to do your homework and you will be able to determine which or these frame suppliers is providing a frame that is the same as the big-name frames at a fraction of the cost. Look on weightweenies for example, check around, if the savign is sufficient that go for it, I'd do the same again but factor in the additional costs - I got charged :
bank charge
shipping charge
duty
Post Office handling
Those were charges that seem to get applied inconsistently, some escape some of them, some get charged the full amount and they can add fairly considerably to the end cost to your door.

alan_sherman

Sounds like a lot of hassle with the extra charges. Other options are the ribble aluminium TT frame which is very cheap and good for experimenting with position on a TT specific frame for not much money (a clubmate has one, and is very happy especially for the price).

Then Planet X has their older TT frame - the stealth for about the same price as the chinese imports when they have sell off every now and again. I have had mine for 2 years now and am very happy with it (and it got me under the hour this year )

benjboy

I got one 12k weave very happy with it lovely paint job as well.£353.00+postage and was lucky , did not get caught with import duty.Try carbonzone on ebay

Si C

benjboy wrote:

I got one 12k weave very happy with it lovely paint job as well.£353.00+postage and was lucky , did not get caught with import duty.Try carbonzone on ebay

Did you have any issues with the build? e.g BB thread, headset etc

Chip \'oyler

Something else to think about with importing these cheap chinese frames.

Mate of mine bought one and when it arrived there were three asylum seekers in his bottom bracket shell.

Plus side is he's had some amazing stir fries for his tea

Si C

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Something else to think about with importing these cheap chinese frames.

Mate of mine bought one and when it arrived there were three asylum seekers in his bottom bracket shell.

Plus side is he's had some amazing stir fries for his tea

LOL

Reminds me of a Little Britain sketch...Awww Mister Dudley