Espresso Machine ...
Comments
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I stick by Lavazza Crema de Gusto. £2.39 a pop and through the Gaggia makes a lovely espresso.0
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I used to have a cheap espresso machine that, until it died after a couple of years of hard use, made very nice coffee. Not the very best I'd ever had, but the little espressos I got out of it were nicer than I got from most coffee shops – certainly all the "chains", and sadly even better than many independent italian cafes. (I like strong italian-style coffee, rather than the delicate colombian (or whatever) kind that "coffee-nerd" friends have tried to impress me with. Perhaps that identifies me as having plebian coffee tastes..!)Scrumple wrote:Cheap espresso machines are comedy - style over substance for those that don't know better.
In what sense is my experience a consequence of "style over substance"? Why should I "know better"? (In a more general complaint, why must we be expert in everything? Is this an internet thing, where you're always stuck between two damned experts?) I don't care to know what all the things you're writing about are, yet I like a nice espresso in the morning at home. Currently I veer between a stovetop espresso and a french press but I'd use the cheap machine if I still had it, and happily so!0 -
Scrumple wrote:
My point was that at a few quid for a pack of 10 capsules, you'd get far more for a bag of corking coffee from hasbean, and press pot it.
How long does the coffee last before it's stale? The whole reason for me getting a Nespresso many years ago was that as a singly at the time, I just didn't drink enough coffee and half a bag would be thrown away. The capsules stay fresh and the flavour is consistent so I know what I'm getting. I only have a small freezer compartment in the fridge (that's another 'Swiss' thing I'll never understand!) so don't really want to use it for bags of coffee. There's two of us now so household coffee consumption is up but probably still less than 15-20 cups a week.0 -
Best coffee I ever had was in Ethiopian villages while I was riding my bike around the country. Roasted on a tin plate over a charcoal fire, hand ground then prepared in a clay jug. I've never had anything like it. Every coffee I've had since has been really sh@t in comparison.More problems but still living....0
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I actually think Starbucks is probably the best out of the chains. The one at the Airport is pretty good anyway!
I've had some rubbish coffee from supposedly authentic italian cafes using fantastic looking machines. I've also had great coffee from the same.
For minimal effort/fuss and maximum consistency I just feel the Nespresso machines are hard to beat, I always enjoy a cup and it takes seconds to make. I can't be ar5ed learning to tamp and extract corrwectly when I am happy with making a coffee I really enjoy in 30 seconds... If I had to go through the rigmarole I'd never have time for a coffee at home...0 -
The immediate roasting and grinding makes a huge difference - if you can get the green beans its worth trying it at home using the grill.0
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Gave up coffee over twenty years ago, the most boring drink every imo. Tea rules!!0
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NapD has the right view but I can't do it. I actually like the fanny-on with tamping/grind etc. A bean>cup machine is good but I can see the convenience of NespressoM.Rushton0
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ballspondroad wrote:The immediate roasting and grinding makes a huge difference - if you can get the green beans its worth trying it at home using the grill.
Don't let Scrumple catch you desecrating good coffee on the grill.
He's spent decades perfecting his technique of slow roasting the beans in the empty skulls of Balinese virgins, for a far superior flavour.
What's wrong with Nescafe anyway?0 -
giant mancp wrote:Gave up coffee over twenty years ago, the most boring drink every imo. Tea rules!!
Don't like coffeee, don't Top Gear, don't like Cannondale this list is endless. Still waiting to see a post of something you like.
Bean to cup is the way to go IMO over the nespresso machine.
Had a Gaggia Synchrony for about 6 years. Great machine especially the twin boiler model.0 -
Gazzaputt wrote:giant mancp wrote:Gave up coffee over twenty years ago, the most boring drink every imo. Tea rules!!
Don't like coffeee, don't Top Gear, don't like Cannondale this list is endless. Still waiting to see a post of something you like.
Assos chamois cream whilst drinking tea!
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... =#164231280 -
Please don't take me so seriously....
As for the cheap machines being style over substance... it is because they are NOT "espresso" machines. They are posh kettles with chrome.
Their temperature is way out
Their pressure is too low
Their steam ability negligable
You may like the taste - great - but as for me saying "those that don't know better" - it wasn't a condescending nod, it was a fact. If you haven't tried single estate fresh roast, you don't know better.
Cheap espresso machines are not espresso. You really do not know better until you have sampled a proper cup.
If you do, you probably wont go back. The only thing I agree in is the simplicity of the nespresso range - as I have said it is a no mess solution. I agree also about the wastage when buying ground coffee. That is exactly why I got a roaster and now make up 200g each week to grind daily for work. Roast coffe stales quickly. Ground coffee stales in hours.
To conclude - send off for a bag of top notch stuff, use a cafetiere, and then see what you think. I'm just advocating looking wider than the simplest methods.0 -
Scrumple - since you seem to be a bit of a coffee fanatic couple of questions for ya....
- Will green beans still be good after storing for >2 years? I bought some last time I was in Ethiopia, but since I don't have a roaster I haven't roasted many.
- Can a popcorn maker or a grill actually roast beans properly? I tried a couple of times with a popcorn maker, but the coffee never tasted quite right.More problems but still living....0 -
Green beans last months into years
There is no fixed amount of time - some can go for ages. Depends on the moisture level in them and the drying process. I have about 5 kilos of different types, and some are 12 months at least. You wont know until you roast and try!
I have tried a popcorn popper, and they can only do small amounts. Beans should be roasted in a way where they do not burn - they have to be kept moving and heated steadily. It is very hard in a popper to know when to stop. You can try a frying pan - iron skillet - and paddle? Also, the chaff burns and can catch fire!
You could find a local roaster and ask if they will roast them (where are you?). Or, mail them to me and I could do a batch. The hottop takes 250g max loads. I have some Yirgacheffe - great coffee.0 -
Absolutely loving the technical enthusiasm on this thread!
Are we all in agreement? That coffee is the vice of choice for the amateur cyclist? (afetr buying shiny bike bits)What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
no.simonaspinall wrote:Absolutely loving the technical enthusiasm on this thread!
Are we all in agreement? That coffee is the vice of choice for the amateur cyclist? (afetr buying shiny bike bits)
sex0 -
alfablue wrote:
no.simonaspinall wrote:Absolutely loving the technical enthusiasm on this thread!
Are we all in agreement? That coffee is the vice of choice for the amateur cyclist? (afetr buying shiny bike bits)
sex
sex isn't a vice
What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
it's got a grip on me :twisted:0
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Espresso coffee is drunk all over Italy. It's an italian word. But you don't come across "single estate fresh roast" there, often: it's usually Lavazza or Illy, if that.Scrumple wrote:You may like the taste - great - but as for me saying "those that don't know better" - it wasn't a condescending nod, it was a fact. If you haven't tried single estate fresh roast, you don't know better.
That's what I mean! I've had espresso in posh restaurants, in achingly authentic Italian coffee shops in London, across europe, and in Italy... I think I have had a "proper cup" of espresso (admittedly, probably made by somebody who didn't make a fuss about it). And a proper cup is very nice. But the ones my cheap little machine spat out weren't so bad.Scrumple wrote:You really do not know better until you have sampled a proper cup.
If you do, you probably wont go back.
In fact, the cups I've been forced to try by coffee-bore friends who couldn't accept that I like a nice strong espresso made with already-ground coffee, may well have been "single estate" or whatnot. Didn't mind it.
No you're not! Perhaps you haven't read what you wrote!Scrumple wrote:I'm just advocating looking wider than the simplest methods.
I don't doubt that this is something you love and have learned a lot about, but need it be so complicated for normal people? This is feeling dangerously near to "wine-bore" territory.0 -
Here's my tuppence worth:
When I started work 13 years ago I got a starting work bonus, which I think was intended to be used to buy a suit so that I looked professional. I used it to buy a Krups espresso machine. I think it was about £130.
That produced pretty good coffee, as far as I could tell, using packets of ready ground Illy, but the crema wasn't the thickest in the world, and became noticeably thinner the longer the Illy had been open.
So, after a couple of years i bought a Bodum Antigua coffee grinder - should have been £45, got it for £25 in the sales. I moved to buying beans from a local roaster and grinding just before use. The grinder needed a bit of twekaing to grind fine enough but it made a huge improvement in the resulting espresso.
A few years later, I had a bit of spare cash (this is before I got into cycling ) and fancied an improvement, and bought a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder. Another leap forward a brass bolier and precise grind - with fresh beans it produces loads of crema, and with slightly older beans you can still get good results once you know how to temperature surf. They weren't cheap (£450 I think), but they're built like a tank - 6 years old and no issues to report at all.
The final improvement was a new roaster opening 5 miinutes from home. They do single estate roasts and some of the coffees are absolutely superb. I really enjoy having the variety available.
Coffee's great. And since I got into cycling I'm glad to say the two seem to go together perfectly.0 -
I'm a coffee bore
I admit it.
Guilty.
True
Yes
I'll shut up now. But newly roasted COE coffee in a vacpot is worth a rant or two.
PS: thank God for Philip S. Proof I am not just rambling.0 -
It's hard to beat Aldi's "Diplomat" brand redbush tea bags: less than 2.5p each, and as rooibos has no tannins and essentially tastes of nothing anyway, you can keep topping up your mug with more boiled water with little deterioration in taste, so final cost is around 1p per pint.
Since you don't have milk in redbush, and boiled water can take a while to cool down to drinking temperature, you can cut out the need for a complex and expensive "kettle" and use water straight from the hot tap. This shortcut method may also appeal to those new to redbush making, who've yet to master the fettling skills - nay, the artistry - of an accomplished rooibos cuppista.0 -
This is all very interesting. I've heard people rabbit on about good coffee but didn't know the details.... ANyway some questions..
So where are the best local roasters in London?
How long will roasted beans last before you need to use them?
What do the coffee bores think of those stove top aluminium espresso things? Am I better off using a French press/cafetiere?
Can you recommend me a decent coffee grinder that's not several hundred quid?
How do I know how long to grind for?
Should I use just boiled water to make the coffee or off the boil?
I don't think I can be bothered to try to roasting my own but I'd be happy to try the locally roasted/home ground/cafetiere route to find out if it tastes better than pre ground stuff in a stove top espresso maker...
Look forward to your answers Scrumple and Philip SDo not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
This is all very interesting. I've heard people rabbit on about good coffee but didn't know the details.... ANyway some questions..
So where are the best local roasters in London?
Monmouth Coffee, Drury, Square Mile...
How long will roasted beans last before you need to use them?
Being fussy - 2 weeks if stored in a vac bag with a valve / similar. Ground coffee stales instantly, and is best ground to order (think bread - crumbs stale in minutes due to surface areas). Most bags of ground lose a lot of flavour within a day or so of being opened.
What do the coffee bores think of those stove top aluminium espresso things? Am I better off using a French press/cafetiere?
The stove top method is a staple in Italy - similar to espresso by taste and method. Not the same as an espresso machine, but very good. Need very fine grind like espresso.
French press is more coarse grind, and will give a longer cup (filter type coffee)
Can you recommend me a decent coffee grinder that's not several hundred quid?
Blade grinders cut up coffee, and are only ok for coarse grinds as they creat uneven lumps and dust. Good grinders are needed for fine grinds that are ESSENTIAL to make your own espresso. Rancilio Rocky, or any Mazzer, or any BURR grinder is far better, They are not cheap, and Ebay values are high used.
How do I know how long to grind for?
It is grind size that counts! Then, you need to know what volume to use for any method (eg 40g for a drip machine, 14g for a double espresso) You then just grind that volume by adding only the beans you need to the grinder. Commercial machines with high turnovers can keep the beens in the hopper and have dosers, to dispense set volumes.
Should I use just boiled water to make the coffee or off the boil?
Just off the boil. A common failure of machines is that they deliver water too cold (rarely too hot) to the grinds, creating a sour cup. The best methods deliver at the exact temp. - which is why you hear of "temp surfing" to pass the water as the boiler hits the sweet spot. Very accurate thermostats are more expensive - another reason why home espresso machines are usually not very good if cheap.
For French Press, boil, walk away to fill the pot etc, and within that time it should be just off the boil and at the right temp.
I don't think I can be bothered to try to roasting my own but I'd be happy to try the locally roasted/home ground/cafetiere route to find out if it tastes better than pre ground stuff in a stove top espresso maker...
Go to HASBEAN coffee online, and email Steve with the type of coffee you like. He will send you some after pointing out something decent. Try it - the most easy way to do it without messing up is a cafetiere (French Press) with decent water just off the boil and the right amount (circa 1 tbps per big cup). Beware, it may not taste as you expect - as you will be used to one sort of taste. Coffee is as different as wine by origin and bean type.
Also NOTE that differences in roast times make differences to taste. Like sugar, coffee becomes brown (acid/flavour) going to darker black (less harsh but more smokey) by roast. It is a misconception to think of a dark roasted coffee as "strong". It is merely a more dark flavour, with the same caffiene as the bean would have if roasted lighter and more open in taste.
Finally, you need to order the grind size for your method. You need differnt sizes for the methods you qoute, you can't get away with it. Coarse in a stove top will underextract and be thin and awful. Fine in a press pot will be like drinking sludge!
Look forward to your answers Scrumple and Philip S0 -
http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasted.pict-guide.php
different roast stages
http://www.sweetmarias.com/articles.php#roastAndBrew
more guff and blather on brew types and tips - half way down0 -
Scrumple wrote:This is all very interesting. I've heard people rabbit on about good coffee but didn't know the details.... ANyway some questions..
So where are the best local roasters in London?
Monmouth Coffee, Drury, Square Mile...
How long will roasted beans last before you need to use them?
Being fussy - 2 weeks if stored in a vac bag with a valve / similar. Ground coffee stales instantly, and is best ground to order (think bread - crumbs stale in minutes due to surface areas). Most bags of ground lose a lot of flavour within a day or so of being opened.
What do the coffee bores think of those stove top aluminium espresso things? Am I better off using a French press/cafetiere?
The stove top method is a staple in Italy - similar to espresso by taste and method. Not the same as an espresso machine, but very good. Need very fine grind like espresso.
French press is more coarse grind, and will give a longer cup (filter type coffee)
Can you recommend me a decent coffee grinder that's not several hundred quid?
Blade grinders cut up coffee, and are only ok for coarse grinds as they creat uneven lumps and dust. Good grinders are needed for fine grinds that are ESSENTIAL to make your own espresso. Rancilio Rocky, or any Mazzer, or any BURR grinder is far better, They are not cheap, and Ebay values are high used.
How do I know how long to grind for?
It is grind size that counts! Then, you need to know what volume to use for any method (eg 40g for a drip machine, 14g for a double espresso) You then just grind that volume by adding only the beans you need to the grinder. Commercial machines with high turnovers can keep the beens in the hopper and have dosers, to dispense set volumes.
Should I use just boiled water to make the coffee or off the boil?
Just off the boil. A common failure of machines is that they deliver water too cold (rarely too hot) to the grinds, creating a sour cup. The best methods deliver at the exact temp. - which is why you hear of "temp surfing" to pass the water as the boiler hits the sweet spot. Very accurate thermostats are more expensive - another reason why home espresso machines are usually not very good if cheap.
For French Press, boil, walk away to fill the pot etc, and within that time it should be just off the boil and at the right temp.
I don't think I can be bothered to try to roasting my own but I'd be happy to try the locally roasted/home ground/cafetiere route to find out if it tastes better than pre ground stuff in a stove top espresso maker...
Go to HASBEAN coffee online, and email Steve with the type of coffee you like. He will send you some after pointing out something decent. Try it - the most easy way to do it without messing up is a cafetiere (French Press) with decent water just off the boil and the right amount (circa 1 tbps per big cup). Beware, it may not taste as you expect - as you will be used to one sort of taste. Coffee is as different as wine by origin and bean type.
Also NOTE that differences in roast times make differences to taste. Like sugar, coffee becomes brown (acid/flavour) going to darker black (less harsh but more smokey) by roast. It is a misconception to think of a dark roasted coffee as "strong". It is merely a more dark flavour, with the same caffiene as the bean would have if roasted lighter and more open in taste.
Finally, you need to order the grind size for your method. You need differnt sizes for the methods you qoute, you can't get away with it. Coarse in a stove top will underextract and be thin and awful. Fine in a press pot will be like drinking sludge!
Look forward to your answers Scrumple and Philip S
Thanks. When you say "good quality water", do you mean you use mineral water or something? I have tried decent coffee and love it, Time Out London did a review of coffee bars in London and a couple of them are near me. The coffee was fantastic - you can really taste more depth - elements of chocolate and fruit coming through. I can see myself getting sucked into the world of coffee.... More money needed...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
I've got a stove top espresso maker - makes fantastic coffee - I'm drinking one now. As for pod machines I saw something once - I think it was called "coffee duck" but it was a reuse-able refillable (with your own coffee) pod0
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STOP. this is a dark,dangerous expensive world where the more money you spend is no guarantee of good results. i would recommend a barista course similar to the one i did to get an idea of what you should achieve. Scrumple has gone into it v.deeply and has some good points.M.Rushton0
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Take a Mug
add Gold Blend, boiling water, milk and a sweetener
stir with a spoon (any will do, although aficionados may prefer a coffee-stained one)
Drink.0 -
Put some pants on, a pair of shoes, sit on a bike, go and ride. Same sort of idea.M.Rushton0
