Zanes, DDD on the Kebel and Kharma

DonDaddyD

zanes wrote:

Damnit, I'd picked up the courage to ask DDD about his Kuota in that thread!

Just for you,

The Kebel has the same geometry as the KOM (that's the bike AG2R ride). The Kebel is slightly lighter than the Kharma. The guy that sold me my Kharma said to only consider the Kebel if I planning on racing.

Kebel review
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/tech/bik ... kebel.html


The Kharma is obviously more upright than the Kebel, but still manages to be aggressive, racy and/or sporty (depending on the amount of spacers). It's virtues are in the deep head tube and its immovable bottom bracket. Both of these make the bike reassuring when going downhill and sprinting. The frame is also comfortable, climbs and rides well on or out of the seat.

Yes there are lighter frames but if weight isn't an issue the frame is quality and with a proposed frame weight of 1250g the bike can be made lighter with better wheels and components, I personally think Fulcrum Racing 5s or wheels of that ilk undersell the bikes potential. However, Ultegra SL or the Campy equivalent is the most suitable groupset (same with the Kebel).

In someways I don't see the point of the Kebel.

zanes

Hmmm, that's interesting. Shop that I test rode the Kebel was a little vague about the differences between that and the Kharma; to be fair, they had only the Kebel built up as a demo bike (all bikes there are bought in as F+F and built up custom to each customer) but certainly didn't mention geometry differences It had SRAM Force (lovely) and SRAM S60's as the build IIRC, plus some rather fancy power meter kit.

Anyway, it certainly was a racy bike, really pushed you to ride it *insanely* hard and coming out of corners it was absolutely mental. Basically my budget would either be a more "basic" Kebel build or a quite nice Kharma build.

Guess I need to ride a Kharma elsewhere and consider. Just hope it's easier than finding a Willier to ride, as one LBS put it: "I can let you take the bike out, but if you decide you don't want it there may be a problem" <exit shop>

Although I probably wouldn't race it I think I want a no-compromise bike as a best (as in, dry-sundays-in-june bike ). Comfort wise the CF Buzz-absorbance was incredible.

Stunning bikes either way.

DonDaddyD

The Kebel has a harder market because at that price range you're competing with the Wilier Izoard, Bianchi Infinito, Cervelo and the question is why would you? (And I don't personally think they're better bikes).

If you had no comfort issues with the Kebel, loved the wieght, the way it plunges into and out of corners and could see yourself riding it for 3hrs+ on weekends. Then take the leap!

Try a Kharma and other bikes first (I'm sure you can find a Wilier).

What groupset and wheels would you put on a Kebel?

zanes

Izoard with Centuar would be £2.4k at my local dealer (one with the problem re test rides ), Ultegra-SL'd/fulcrum 5 kebel would be shade under £2k at the place I test rode it at (with the flexibility of totally custom build).

Kit wise I'd initially be (I reckon) mostly Rival with a smattering of Force perhaps, with a view to trickle-upgrading to Force throughout. Wheel wise not too sure, like the look of Fulcrums but the Kuota place was well down on them, seemed to prefer something else but I'm b*ggered if I can remember what. Odd italian-sounding name IIRC. Do like the look of Campag wheelsets though! *

As you say, when looking at putting this kind of dough into a bike I must test-ride, test-ride, test-ride . I rather like the look of this store if they do test rides but that will need to wait for me to return to bath. http://www.stradacycles.co.uk/section.php/9/1/road

*Apologies to purists :oops:

DonDaddyD

Personally I think Wilier put a premium price on all of their bikes. They make it as expensive as possible within each price range. Bianchi do this as well. The Izoard (as with the Infinito) is comparable to the Kebel. The Kharma is more the Mortirolo level. The Kredo/KULT and Kom are Cento and Cento SL level (pro bikes). I don't know why Wilier make the Imperiale except to have a £4k premium (again) sportive bike.

If you can get the Kebel with Ultegra SL or the new one and Fulcrum 5's then you will have the same set up as my Kharma, which I paid £1800 for. I'm told that SRAM Rival is around Ultegra level anyway - so you're not selling yourself short.

My logic was that I wanted to put as nice a groupset as I could afford on my bike because had I bought 105 I would have spent everyday on the bike wanting Ultegra. Wheels I wouldn't worry about they wear and they're easier to upgrade.

I love Fulcrums, I love the sound they make. They're made by Campag though, it was Campag's way of making a wheel that could work with Shimano and SRAM without diluting the parent (Campag) brand.

I've burned through two Fulcrum 7/5 hubs though. I'm shaping to buy Fulcrum 1s or something of that level.

All purists love their best bikes.

kingrollo

I wanted the Izoard - but I wanted ultegra - last year that was around £2600 - The Kharma,Ultegra witha wheel upgrade cost me £1700 - I couldn't really justify the extra £900.

The Kharma suits me, as it looks pretty racy, but the positionis very comfortable. I didn't like the paint job on the 2009 kebel. So the Kharma is was.

As DDD says there are lighter bikes for the money - the boardman for one. - But with the wheel upgrade mine doesn't feel heavy.

zanes

I think that's one thing that surprised me about the test ride- such insane stiffness. For me I think stiffness now has slight priority over raw weight.

DonDaddyD

The bottom bracket area of the entire range is very large and very pretty.