Turning right at junction when a car opposite is doing same

Mr Tom

I've been getting back into cycling recently and also have a driver's license. I haven't driven or cycled for ages and a few days back realised I wasn't sure what was best to do in this situation.

So... I was coming into a crossroad type junction with a green light, wanting to turn right. The car opposite was doing the same. When you're in a car there's the choice of turning in front of the opposite car or sometimes both passing each other parallel and then doing the right turn "behind" each other. As I got closer to the car I thought there was no way I'd risk passing the front of the car as it turned right, to turn behind it - if it didn't stop it would knock me straight off. So, I turned in front of it. As I did that and began to ride towards my exit, another car looking to go straight across had to hit the brakes as they were trying to edge round the guy turning right.

So, it left me wondering what the safest option/ the official way is to turn right in this kind of case.

chadders81

I think even when in a car you're supposed to play it by ear and do whatever is the safest and most convenient.

That's what I remember being taught in my lessons anyway.

But it usually seems to be that you turn in front of the oncoming driver.

It seems that in this case, the driver hadn't seen you or hadn't anticipated what you were going to do. Difficult to say without seeing the junction really.

cjcp

I think you have to take each junction as they come - some have more space than others. Ultimately, you're turning in front cars in th other carriageway, so you'd have to give way. On a bike, assume that a car might do anything and wait till the coast is clear.

deptfordmarmoset

Ok, I'll come up with another theory - officially you pass behind unless the road surface is marked to the contrary. This for example is illegal:



But sometimes it's the only way of doing it.. And that's all the more true for a cyclist with less body protection than a white van has. To my way of thinking, personal safety trumps the law in some cases and you have to cycle to the road conditions. (An idiot crossing your path illegally in front of you counts as a road condition.)

izthewiz

As a driving instructor, I feel obliged to tell you that your situation does require judgement and consideration of/for other road users, but what you did was probably the safest option for a vulnerable road user waiting to turn right, although oncoming traffic going straight ahead does have priority over those waiting to turn right across their path. The disadvantage of this option is that although the other waiting car is 'protecting' your waiting position, he is also obscuring you from the oncoming vehicle.
With the alternative route (going past, then turning) the opposite applies for each point, meaning that you have priority over the wating car as you go past then turn behind, assuming they know or care about this. Oncoming traffic can also see you more clearly while you wait/look, but you are less protected.
Unless road signs before or markings at the junction guide you (so look out for them), there is no fixed rule/guideline, so judge each situation as you see it.

When figuring out priority, the road user that has to cross the least number of centre lines has priority.

As a cyclist, I've found that if I ride with the assumption that drivers haven't seen me, or don't care, or are actively trying to 'get' me (they're not, thats just my paranoia - I think!), then I usually manage to get to my destination unscathed. Diesel spills on roundabouts don't count - but that's another story.

Good luck, and safe riding/driving.

Mr Tom

Thanks for all the advice. It's funny as I've done a fair bit of cycling before but never had to question this for some reason. Maybe as I was just riding round my local area more when I was younger and using back roads, also as a kid probably not thinking about it! In this case I think the guy going straight over who tried to sneak round the driver turning right was being a bit eager. Once he saw me he hit the brakes hard and then tried to do a really casual pose as though he'd known I was there all along!

It's amazing how differently I think about the road after having learned to drive a car. Especially the mirror-signal-manoeuvre thing from driving and the idea of of always checking your mirrors (or looking round as I don't have mirrors on my bike at the moment) and having an idea of what's around you.

Levi_501

I 'tend' to pass behind the car if I can.

This gets me out of their way, and usually, it appears safer.

However, I try and plan my routes in such a way that right turns are kept to a minimum.

gaz545

Highway code rule 181?



look at the cyclist.. which is better for them.

Mike Healey

If you adopt the left side to left side rule, you are always turning away from the othe vehicle.

If you do it right side to right side, then you intersect the line of their turn twice.

Prefer rule 181 of HC above.

Sirius631

I can remember when learning to drive, my instructoress was having me do the turn correctly (offside to offside, as shown in the highway code) and she was having a right go at a van that was blocking our way by insisting on doing it how everyone else on the road does it (nearside to nearside).

As the picture in the previous post shows, when you go offside to offside you can see what is coming up behind the other vehicle on its nearside. Sod's law says that someone will try and tailgate through on the bumper of the car you are turning about, thus blocking your exit.

izthewiz

The pic posted by gaz above shows the cyclist to illustrate the need when turning right as a motorist, to look out for traffic passing to the nearside of oncoming vehicles, particularly when turning nearside-to-nearside, as the view of an oncoming cyclist can be obscured by the other waiting vehicle.

You have to read the situation and choose the safest option for you, as explained in the full text for Rule 181 that accompanies above pic:

When turning right at crossroads where an oncoming vehicle is also turning right, there is a choice of two methods:

Turn right side to right side; keep the other vehicle on your right and turn behind it. This is generally the safer method as you have a clear view of any approaching traffic when completing your turn
Left side to left side, turning in front of each other; This can block your view of oncoming vehicles, so take extra care. Cyclists and motorcyclists in particular may be hidden from your view. Road layout, markings or how the other vehicle is positioned can determine which course should be taken.

Having said all that, like DM above, looking after the safety of Number One always takes priority for me.

MrChuck

Dunno about the highways code but in situations like that I usually wait for the driver to do his thing and then go when it's clear. It just feels like a dangerous situation, where the driver's attention is likely to be over his left shoulder as much as in front of him.

As always assess each situation on its merits, and as someone else says your safety trumps the highway code.