Avid Juicy - constant noise
apreading
Posts: 4,535
I have a bike which has Avid Juicy 3 at the front.
Ever since I got the bike last year there was an occasional clanging or pinging noise from the front brake when at speed which went after a dab or two of the brakes.
This has gotten worse lately and was so bad on a jaunt round the wessex downs/ridgeway last week that I had to put my headphones on so that I couldnt hear it.
Going on a smooth road downhill it would start clannging and do so constantly for like 30 seconds, then go quiet for 30 seconds, then start again.
And this is so loud that all other road users can hear it - I am not quibbling over a quiet noise that is just annoying!
Anyway I had had enough. In the past I have straightened the rotor, replaced the rotor, centred the discs - all sorts. So I took it to LBS to see what they could do. they said that the rotor was touching the edge of the housing, so faced the mounts on the fork slightly and I got it back today.
When I took for a test ride it was doing it immediately and constantly making the noise - perhaps a little more quiet but also more constant - I couldnt get it to stop apart from when I was actually applying the brakes.
I turned the bike over and spun the wheel and all quiet, but noticed that as soon as I compressed the fork by hand, just slightly, the noise started and was able to be reproduced (had never worked out a way to reproduce it at standstill before).
So back I went.
The rotor is bent was the first response - but they didnt find it to be bent when they looked at it a few days ago. It also looked pretty straight to me. I also asked why it only did it when the fork was compressed - surely a bent rotor would be bent without weight on the bike.
Its the frame/wheel flexing was the next response, but the pressure needed on the forks is so gentle and no weight is needed on the wheel or the wheel mounting - surely the forks and mounting are stable enough that they would not flex that much with such slight pressure? If this is the case why does nobody else's bike do it - it would render disc brakes unusable surely?
they are going to look again and give me some options but I am fed up and want to know - is this problem endemic with disc brakes? Do the rotors really need to be straight to that degree of accuracy - with no tolerance whatsoever? would getting a new rotor help - presumably they all warp from time to time? Is this just a problem with the Jiucy 3 or have I just got a duff unit - should I replace it with a different brand?
any offers of advice appreciated as I have reached the end of my tolerance for this noise and wondering if I would change to a bike with rim brakes - life was much simpler then!
Ever since I got the bike last year there was an occasional clanging or pinging noise from the front brake when at speed which went after a dab or two of the brakes.
This has gotten worse lately and was so bad on a jaunt round the wessex downs/ridgeway last week that I had to put my headphones on so that I couldnt hear it.
Going on a smooth road downhill it would start clannging and do so constantly for like 30 seconds, then go quiet for 30 seconds, then start again.
And this is so loud that all other road users can hear it - I am not quibbling over a quiet noise that is just annoying!
Anyway I had had enough. In the past I have straightened the rotor, replaced the rotor, centred the discs - all sorts. So I took it to LBS to see what they could do. they said that the rotor was touching the edge of the housing, so faced the mounts on the fork slightly and I got it back today.
When I took for a test ride it was doing it immediately and constantly making the noise - perhaps a little more quiet but also more constant - I couldnt get it to stop apart from when I was actually applying the brakes.
I turned the bike over and spun the wheel and all quiet, but noticed that as soon as I compressed the fork by hand, just slightly, the noise started and was able to be reproduced (had never worked out a way to reproduce it at standstill before).
So back I went.
The rotor is bent was the first response - but they didnt find it to be bent when they looked at it a few days ago. It also looked pretty straight to me. I also asked why it only did it when the fork was compressed - surely a bent rotor would be bent without weight on the bike.
Its the frame/wheel flexing was the next response, but the pressure needed on the forks is so gentle and no weight is needed on the wheel or the wheel mounting - surely the forks and mounting are stable enough that they would not flex that much with such slight pressure? If this is the case why does nobody else's bike do it - it would render disc brakes unusable surely?
they are going to look again and give me some options but I am fed up and want to know - is this problem endemic with disc brakes? Do the rotors really need to be straight to that degree of accuracy - with no tolerance whatsoever? would getting a new rotor help - presumably they all warp from time to time? Is this just a problem with the Jiucy 3 or have I just got a duff unit - should I replace it with a different brand?
any offers of advice appreciated as I have reached the end of my tolerance for this noise and wondering if I would change to a bike with rim brakes - life was much simpler then!
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Comments
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what is the fork?"Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
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How very strange! Do tell us what happens. I have absolutely no idea what it could be! Surely if the noise is that loud you can pin point the point of contact??0
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loose wheel bearings?
something is not right. maybe try another LBS for a second opinion."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Had never been able to reproduce the noise at standstill before - hence why even though it is so loud I couldnt pinpoint the cause.
Got told off in the shop because they said I shouldnt turn the bike upside down - something to do with keeping hydraulics the right way up?
Anyway I found another way to reproduce it when in the workshop with them by holding the lower stanchions, spinning the wheel and then pulling up slightly.
Left it with them to look at and dont know the outcome yet - if I had the bike in my possession I would be trying to work out where the rubbing it coming from right now and wouldnt rest until I found it!
They called late on to talk with me but I was tied up at work and the shop must have shut 30 seconds before I phoned them back - so will have to see what they say in the morning.0 -
Arrrgghhh
Called them 9AM this morning to be told that the mechanic who looked at it isnt in today and didnt leave a note - so they dont know what he found until he is in tomorrow... They tried to text him but no reply.
I am desparate to know what the cause is now because it has been bugging me for months trying to work out what it was and wondering whether to ditch the avids or even give up on disc brakes...
Cant wait until first thing tomorrow now - dont mind what is wrong in many ways, I just want to know, and to feel that I am not going mad!0 -
Bent spreader slightly rubbing on the disc? Try taking the pads out and removing the spreader... put pads back in without spreader and see if the noise is still there."Time you enjoy wasting, is not a waste of time"
"I'm too young to be too old for this shit"
Specialized FSRxc Expert 2008
Kona Stinky 2008 (Deceased)
Trek Scratch Air 8 2010 (Work in Progress)0 -
Juicys always seem to make a pinging noise. I believe it's something to do with the pad springs.
I gave up on eliminating it. My brakes are bright green, that makes me happy enough to not be bothered about them pinging. In fact it just draws my attention to how green the brakes are!
The other thing it could be, as Nick pointed out, is play in the wheel bearings, or possibly even just flex in the fork.0 -
my bike had the same problem. So we took the pads out and cleaned them, this seemed to sort out the pinging.
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Just spoken to the LBS and they have put a new front wheel on, new disc, got it all set up running true and as soon as you put any pressure on front end it starts rubbing.
They are saying it must be something wrong with the fork - either too much flex or something else wrong with it.
Suggested I take it up with the shop that I bought it from as it could be a warranty issue.
Just checked though and I have had the bike over a year now. Wish I had dealt with it when I first got it but it wasnt as bad then.
So looks like time for a fork upgrade...0 -
apreading wrote:Suggested I take it up with the shop that I bought it from as it could be a warranty issue.
Just checked though and I have had the bike over a year now. Wish I had dealt with it when I first got it but it wasnt as bad then.
So looks like time for a fork upgrade...
RockShox have a 2 year warranty.
1010 -
Been told by the original dealer that they are difficult to get to pay up and would almost certainly tell me the warranty is invalid because I have done more than 30 hours without servicing it.
I am just going to get a new fork and send it to Rockshox to look at I think - if they fix it I will have something I can sell at the end of the process.
Thinking about the Recon Silver TK on Merlin http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Frame++Forks/Forks++Shocks/Rockshox+Suspension+Forks/Rockshox+Recon+Silver+TK+Forks_RS-RECON-SILVER-TK.htm0 -
I think that might actually be a downgrade compared to mine
RockShox Tora SL Solo Air with Turnkey Lockout, 100/80mm All Travel Adjust, 4.93lbs, Motion Control Damping, Hollow Alloy Crown, Magnesium Lowers, 32mm Cr-Mo Stanchions and steerer, Adjustments: Spring Preload, External Rebound. Disc Specific0 -
apreading wrote:Been told by the original dealer that they are difficult to get to pay up and would almost certainly tell me the warranty is invalid because I have done more than 30 hours without servicing it.url]
Not my experience at all. I had an issue with my Toras and they went back under warranty. They were posted, repaired and returned within 5 working days. No problems and mine had gone significantly longer than 30hours without a service - much longer!
I'd suggest not taking your dealers word for it and see what happens.
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Juicy pinging. If I had a penny for every time I heard them doing this... !
My experience is typically it's the disc hitting the spreader spring clip. They're a complete pain in the arse to fit successfully and avoid clipping the disc, and even then a few good bumps and it will shift enough to hit.
Still, other things to consider are:
1. Pistons not firmly back in place (they require a lot of force to push back. Do this with old pads and a flat bladed screwdriver).
2. Sintered pads. They have metal in the pads I believe and these can make metallic noises.
P.S. I wouldn't trust the LBS. If they're starting to talk about new discs and forks etc for a bit of brake pinging, I'd take it elsewhere. Or just pull the thing apart and service it yourself. Changing the brakes for a different brand may even solve the problem and be cheaper.
I don't see how the fork would be an issue anyway unless there's a fault in the calliper mounts causing disc alignment issues. But 99% of the time I'm sure it's those stupid spring clips. I think maybe the compression of the forks causes the clip to shift slightly and clip. Mine certainly does if it's a good hard compression, but it does it far less than it used to. Forks are Rockshox Recons (327 Solo I believe).
Had a cheap bike once that had some generic cheap disc brake and used strong magnets to hold the pads in place. Worked perfectly. Far better solution in my opinion.0 -
Don't magnets lose their strength over time if they're repeatedly exposed to shock?0
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Bloke in the LBS seemed to really have tried hard to sort it.
Initially when he started looking at it the bloke said that one option might be to back the pads off a little but that would reduce stopping power. Or true the disc. But when he started looking at it I think he was genuinely intrigued because he did all sorts and said he had never seen anything like it before.
And I think I had their top bloke rather than the first guy who looked at it and didnt find anything wrong.
He said it is not compression in the fork that is causing it because he drained the air out and tried it. Put new wheels and disc on it, aligned it properly and still it happenned.
It makes no noise whatsoever when hanging free.
But the slightest pressure on the forks seems to be making the mount move in relation to the rotor, so there must be something flexing or distorting under gentle pressure.
I am pretty sure he was being straight with me as he knows I am going to get a fork online or go back to original shop for Rock Shox to sort it out.
I had already many times pushed the pads back myself.
I am sure organic pads would lessen the noise but the rubbing would still be taking place surely?0 -
Depends if it's the pads rubbing, the spring clip or maybe even something else (calliper?).
Oh, and I find if I don't use a spacer when the wheel is removed whilst in storage or transport I can pretty much guarantee it will ping on the next ride and the pistons need pushing back again.
Another thing is a tip I was given that when fitting the wheel is to use business cards (or something that width), either side of the disc, fit the wheel and apply the brakes a few times then take the cards out. Strangely this actually works. Without doing this the pads would rub far more.0 -
deadkenny wrote:Juicy pinging. If I had a penny for every time I heard them doing this... !
My experience is typically it's the disc hitting the spreader spring clip. They're a complete pain in the ars* to fit successfully and avoid clipping the disc, and even then a few good bumps and it will shift enough to hit.
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P.S. I wouldn't trust the LBS. If they're starting to talk about new discs and forks etc for a bit of brake pinging, I'd take it elsewhere. Or just pull the thing apart and service it yourself. Changing the brakes for a different brand may even solve the problem and be cheaper.
How right you were - got some new pads, fitted them and the problem is gone. The LBS looked at the pads a few times and said it wasnt them because there was plenty of wear left. The new pads came with a new clip though - perhaps the problem was with a distorted clip?
Dont know but I have just done the BHF Richmond-Windsor ride - 37 miles of silent travel (from the bike that is - usual puffing and panting from me!) - ahhh bliss...
Lets hope it stays quiet like this.
Thing is I went out and bought a SID Team set of forks but havent used them yet because I wanted to check the Toras were OK first after the pad change. I guess I will upgrade and the experience will have cost me a few quid in the long run anyway!0 -
I very nearly got new front brakes too - still might if the noise comes back as it seems like the Juicys are a real problem for lots of people.0
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They're not really a problem, they work fine. it's just that ping is incessant.0
