Halfords being Jobsworths?

Zombie_donkey

Both Halfords near me won't let me add to my C2W voucher to the tune of £29 even if I give it to them as a deposit.

Others have said they have been able to do this in the past but has the HMRC tightened up the paperwork?

rjsterry

I've heard rumours that HMRC are trying to wind up C2W so, I wouldn't be surprised if they are making everyone do it to the letter.

tailwindhome

Cycle to work is a scheme whereby the company buys and owns a bicycle which they lend to the employee for a period of time. The employee agrees to take a reduced salary for this loan period. After the loan period the company may sell the bicycle to the employee.

If you top up your voucher who owns the £29 worth of bike? Thats the problem.


When I'm Prime Minister I'll be scrapping this scheme. I intend to reduce the VAT on sport's equipment to 0%. I trust I'll have your vote


ETA Why do you need to top up your voucher?

Zombie_donkey

TailWindHome wrote:

Cycle to work is a scheme whereby the company buys and owns a bicycle which they lend to the employee for a period of time. The employee agrees to take a reduced salary for this loan period. After the loan period the company may sell the bicycle to the employee.

If you top up your voucher who owns the £29 worth of bike? Thats the problem.


When I'm Prime Minister I'll be scrapping this scheme. I intend to reduce the VAT on sport's equipment to 0%. I trust I'll have your vote


ETA Why do you need to top up your voucher?

Just some mad cap scheme I had.

I did my back in again today just by polishing my car so I'm going to forget about bikes for a few more days now :?

davis

What are you buying that costs 1029 quid?

paulbox

I think that's sh!t, if you are willing to pay £29 towards a better bike what difference does it make to anybody but yourself? You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution...

I added £1k to my £1k voucher (not Halfrauds) to buy my Anthem. I'm not taking anything from HMRC, or my employers, I'm just investing my own cash in my bike.

alfablue

HMRC don't care if you add your own money, it is because of the ambiguity over ownership, as tailwind pointed out. Halfords are merely complying with the rules of their scheme which are to suit the employers requirements in this respect.

rjsterry

PaulBox wrote:

I think that's sh!t, if you are willing to pay £29 towards a better bike what difference does it make to anybody but yourself? You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution...

I added £1k to my £1k voucher (not Halfrauds) to buy my Anthem. I'm not taking anything from HMRC, or my employers, I'm just investing my own cash in my bike.

It's not your bike, you rent it from your employer. At the end of the loan period - typically 12 months, but often 36 months, your employer MAY sell you the bike (they don't actually have to, although it would be unusual if they didn't). As far as I understand it, if you contribute extra, you are effectively paying your employer to buy a bike, so if you leave the company before the end of the loan agreement, you would lose that money.

hmbadger

PaulBox wrote:

I think that's sh!t, if you are willing to pay £29 towards a better bike what difference does it make to anybody but yourself? You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution...

I added £1k to my £1k voucher (not Halfrauds) to buy my Anthem. I'm not taking anything from HMRC, or my employers, I'm just investing my own cash in my bike.

Is that strictly true? According to your sig, the Anthem isn't your commuter bike. Which would mean that you shouldn't be gettting tax relief on it. So you are taking something from HMRC.

Not really having a go at you, but I do find many of the whinges and moans about C2W a bit much. All in all, it's a pretty good scheme.

[ My improvement would be to allow you to top up only up to £1000. That way if you opt for a lesser amount and change your mind and want a slightly higher spec bike then you can do that. But stay within the spirit that the scheme is for commuting. ]

paulbox

rjsterry wrote:

PaulBox wrote:

I think that's sh!t, if you are willing to pay £29 towards a better bike what difference does it make to anybody but yourself? You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution...

I added £1k to my £1k voucher (not Halfrauds) to buy my Anthem. I'm not taking anything from HMRC, or my employers, I'm just investing my own cash in my bike.

It's not your bike, you rent it from your employer. At the end of the loan period - typically 12 months, but often 36 months, your employer MAY sell you the bike (they don't actually have to, although it would be unusual if they didn't). As far as I understand it, if you contribute extra, you are effectively paying your employer to buy a bike, so if you leave the company before the end of the loan agreement, you would lose that money.

Did you not read this "You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution..."?

rjsterry

Oops, guess not. Still quite a gamble in the current economic climate - although obviously not for just £29.

paulbox

hmbadger wrote:

PaulBox wrote:

I think that's sh!t, if you are willing to pay £29 towards a better bike what difference does it make to anybody but yourself? You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution...

I added £1k to my £1k voucher (not Halfrauds) to buy my Anthem. I'm not taking anything from HMRC, or my employers, I'm just investing my own cash in my bike.

Is that strictly true? According to your sig, the Anthem isn't your commuter bike. Which would mean that you shouldn't be gettting tax relief on it. So you are taking something from HMRC.

Not really having a go at you, but I do find many of the whinges and moans about C2W a bit much. All in all, it's a pretty good scheme.

[ My improvement would be to allow you to top up only up to £1000. That way if you opt for a lesser amount and change your mind and want a slightly higher spec bike then you can do that. But stay within the spirit that the scheme is for commuting. ]

Ok, I admit that I commute more often on my old hardtail, but I do occasionally use the Anthem (canal path route). I believe that the spirit of the scheme is to get cars off the road and get my fat @rse on to a bike. If I hadn't bought the Anthem I wouldn't have converted my hardtail, and would never have ridden to work.

I don't see what your improvement would add at all I'm afraid, maybe just assist a those who can't make a decision in the first place...

I understand that adding your own cash "officially" would cause problems with who owns the bike etc. but if you are willing to put your own cash in to the deal knowing that you could lose it in the end, that should be fine. I commute to work by bike, the LBS gets more cash, only I lose money if there are complications.

hmbadger

PaulBox wrote:

hmbadger wrote:

PaulBox wrote:

I think that's sh!t, if you are willing to pay £29 towards a better bike what difference does it make to anybody but yourself? You do so knowing that if the bike isn't sold to you at the end of the "loan" period you lose your contribution...

I added £1k to my £1k voucher (not Halfrauds) to buy my Anthem. I'm not taking anything from HMRC, or my employers, I'm just investing my own cash in my bike.

Is that strictly true? According to your sig, the Anthem isn't your commuter bike. Which would mean that you shouldn't be gettting tax relief on it. So you are taking something from HMRC.

Not really having a go at you, but I do find many of the whinges and moans about C2W a bit much. All in all, it's a pretty good scheme.

[ My improvement would be to allow you to top up only up to £1000. That way if you opt for a lesser amount and change your mind and want a slightly higher spec bike then you can do that. But stay within the spirit that the scheme is for commuting. ]

Ok, I admit that I commute more often on my old hardtail, but I do occasionally use the Anthem (canal path route). I believe that the spirit of the scheme is to get cars off the road and get my fat @rse on to a bike. If I hadn't bought the Anthem I wouldn't have converted my hardtail, and would never have ridden to work.

I don't see what your improvement would add at all I'm afraid, maybe just assist a those who can't make a decision in the first place...

I understand that adding your own cash "officially" would cause problems with who owns the bike etc. but if you are willing to put your own cash in to the deal knowing that you could lose it in the end, that should be fine. I commute to work by bike, the LBS gets more cash, only I lose money if there are complications.

Sorry, but I find all that justification a bit tortuous - sounds like your fat @rse was already ona bike. A £1K limit is reasonable in my view.

paulbox

hmbadger wrote:

Sorry, but I find all that justification a bit tortuous - sounds like your fat @rse was already ona bike. A £1K limit is reasonable in my view.

If I hadn't been allowed to contribute to the the bike I was buying, I wouldn't have bought it and therefore wouldn't have been commuting by bike.

5 days in a week in 3.4l car.

:?: Is that short enough for you... :?:

mroli

TailWindHome wrote:

When I'm Prime Minister I'll be scrapping this scheme. I intend to reduce the VAT on sport's equipment to 0%. I trust I'll have your vote

Not my vote dude - Bikes less 17.5% with you as PM or bike with 50% off and paid over course of a year under current scheme...

Now - if you keep the scheme in place AND take off VAT...

Many people "let" you top up - you just have to go to the inconvenience of finding them...

lost_in_thought

@ OP, they probably are, yeah, but technically as I understand it, them's the rules so fair enough.

hmbadger

I understand your reasoning, I just think it's a bit absurd.

Presumably C2W has saved you about £400 on a £2K bike. So you've paid £1.6K? And there is no £1.6K bike in existence that you could have bought without C2W that could have tempted you away from your 3.4L car for commuting?

the_hundredth_idiot

As a solution, how about going to a different bike shop (i.e. not Halfords) that accepts the Halfords vouchers? See if that other bike shop is a bit more flexible about price (as I suspect most will be)?

Being picky over £29 seems ridiculous, even given comments about "ownership". Go to a bike shop where the employees have the flexibility to make a common sense decision.

tailwindhome

mroli wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

When I'm Prime Minister I'll be scrapping this scheme. I intend to reduce the VAT on sport's equipment to 0%. I trust I'll have your vote

Not my vote dude - Bikes less 17.5% with you as PM or bike with 50% off and paid over course of a year under current scheme...

Now - if you keep the scheme in place AND take off VAT...

Many people "let" you top up - you just have to go to the inconvenience of finding them...

My VAT proposal would apply to kit also, and there woudl be no £1000 limit

I'm unlikely to be PM though

gtvlusso

It is Halfords, they did the same to me some months back.....

MrChuck

hmbadger wrote:

Not really having a go at you, but I do find many of the whinges and moans about C2W a bit much. All in all, it's a pretty good scheme.

]

+1. I'd bet that most of the people using the scheme in the spirit in which it was intended aren't too concerned about a £1000 limit.

mcj78

I'd go back to Halfords, ask to speak to the manager, then explain nicely you can only pay £1k but you want a bike costing £1029 & if he doesn't drop £29 off the price you'll walk out the door. Surely even the most "stringent" of staff would come round?

Zombie_donkey

TailWindHome wrote:

mroli wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

When I'm Prime Minister I'll be scrapping this scheme. I intend to reduce the VAT on sport's equipment to 0%. I trust I'll have your vote

Not my vote dude - Bikes less 17.5% with you as PM or bike with 50% off and paid over course of a year under current scheme...

Now - if you keep the scheme in place AND take off VAT...

Many people "let" you top up - you just have to go to the inconvenience of finding them...

My VAT proposal would apply to kit also, and there woudl be no £1000 limit

I'm unlikely to be PM though

I'd vote for you.

Zombie_donkey

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

As a solution, how about going to a different bike shop (i.e. not Halfords) that accepts the Halfords vouchers? See if that other bike shop is a bit more flexible about price (as I suspect most will be)?

Being picky over £29 seems ridiculous, even given comments about "ownership". Go to a bike shop where the employees have the flexibility to make a common sense decision.

Should I just ring round some LBS's to find one that does this? Is it common for them to take Halfords vouchers?

the_hundredth_idiot

Zombie_donkey wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

As a solution, how about going to a different bike shop (i.e. not Halfords) that accepts the Halfords vouchers? See if that other bike shop is a bit more flexible about price (as I suspect most will be)?

Being picky over £29 seems ridiculous, even given comments about "ownership". Go to a bike shop where the employees have the flexibility to make a common sense decision.

Should I just ring round some LBS's to find one that does this? Is it common for them to take Halfords vouchers?

I know of a couple - On Your Bike on Tooley Street and Condor Cycles on Grays Inn Road (both London). But then one is by my office and one is where I bought my bike from so they were the only two I asked - no real feel for how widespread it is. I've got it in my head that there are about 30 LBSs across the UK that take the vouchers - though not really sure where I got that from. Definitely worth asking around. Where abouts are you?

Zombie_donkey

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Zombie_donkey wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

As a solution, how about going to a different bike shop (i.e. not Halfords) that accepts the Halfords vouchers? See if that other bike shop is a bit more flexible about price (as I suspect most will be)?

Being picky over £29 seems ridiculous, even given comments about "ownership". Go to a bike shop where the employees have the flexibility to make a common sense decision.

Should I just ring round some LBS's to find one that does this? Is it common for them to take Halfords vouchers?

I know of a couple - On Your Bike on Tooley Street and Condor Cycles on Grays Inn Road (both London). But then one is by my office and one is where I bought my bike from so they were the only two I asked - no real feel for how widespread it is. I've got it in my head that there are about 30 LBSs across the UK that take the vouchers - though not really sure where I got that from. Definitely worth asking around. Where abouts are you?

Hi. I'm in Northampton. I'll try A J cycles in Higham Ferrers and the two I know of in Northampton itself. How do they get the money though.

sc999cs

Zombie_donkey wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Zombie_donkey wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

As a solution, how about going to a different bike shop (i.e. not Halfords) that accepts the Halfords vouchers? See if that other bike shop is a bit more flexible about price (as I suspect most will be)?

Being picky over £29 seems ridiculous, even given comments about "ownership". Go to a bike shop where the employees have the flexibility to make a common sense decision.

Should I just ring round some LBS's to find one that does this? Is it common for them to take Halfords vouchers?

I know of a couple - On Your Bike on Tooley Street and Condor Cycles on Grays Inn Road (both London). But then one is by my office and one is where I bought my bike from so they were the only two I asked - no real feel for how widespread it is. I've got it in my head that there are about 30 LBSs across the UK that take the vouchers - though not really sure where I got that from. Definitely worth asking around. Where abouts are you?

Hi. I'm in Northampton. I'll try A J cycles in Higham Ferrers and the two I know of in Northampton itself. How do they get the money though.

A colleague at work wanted a bike Halfords couldn't source so went to an independent to obtain her bike. She found out that the independent can apparently register with Halfords and act as agents for them and provide bikes. If the independent phones the Halfords C2W help line they will be able to get details (unless she fibbed).

Back to the main point. The Halfords' LoC clearly states that no additional funds can be added and no change is given. I'd expect them to insist their suppliers keep to those conditions. Try mcj78's suggestion and see if you can get a manager's discount?

Zombie_donkey

They have said they can't even do a discount. :shock:

the_hundredth_idiot

An alternative approach which worked for a colleague was to agree a discount on the bike itself in return for paying an extortionate amount for some cheap, nasty pedals (the bike didn't come with pedals).

So, £1,150 bike for £1,000. Plus £5 pedals for £150. Bike bought - and he even had pedals on the bike so he could ride it home.

Headhuunter

rjsterry wrote:

I've heard rumours that HMRC are trying to wind up C2W so, I wouldn't be surprised if they are making everyone do it to the letter.

Hang on, you can't say something as earth shattering as that without some explanation!

alfablue

There is no evidence at all that this is the case, just rumour-mongering on fora such as this, or from ill-informed HR bods. Whenever this is stated and I ask for some information of substance from a valid source, it goes quiet.