Cole Du Joux Plane V Alp Duez

sampras38
sampras38 Posts: 1,917
edited August 2010 in Sportives/audaxes/training rides
OK, so having a discussion with a friend recently on which climb is harder when you are going against the clock. Similar distance, similar gradient and I just wondered if anyone whose done them both has a view?

Last year we did the Joux Plane for the first time and I managed 58 minutes, and this year I did Alp Duez in 1 hour 2 mins, at the end of a hard week's riding.

So just for a bit of fun...what do we think?

Comments

  • drewfromrisca
    drewfromrisca Posts: 1,165
    I'll let you know in a week friday when I'm heading out that way for 2 weeks...excited oooh just a wee bit!!! :lol:
    There is never redemption, any fool can regret yesterday...

    Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    drewfromrisca wrote:
    I'll let you know in a week friday when I'm heading out that way for 2 weeks...excited oooh just a wee bit!!! :lol:

    Which way, they're in different locations?
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    I'm going to do Alpe d'Huez next time I go to the Alps, probably be next summer now. I'll let you know which I think is harder then. Armstrong thinks Joux Plane is harder I think!
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  • drewfromrisca
    drewfromrisca Posts: 1,165
    I'm going to Vaujany for a week then staying in Doussard week later.
    There is never redemption, any fool can regret yesterday...

    Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    MatHammond wrote:
    I'm going to do Alpe d'Huez next time I go to the Alps, probably be next summer now. I'll let you know which I think is harder then. Armstrong thinks Joux Plane is harder I think!

    Yeah, and I also read he was passed by a local riding when training on it a few days before the Tour started. In my experience neither climb is THAT hard if all you want to do is pin up,but against the clock...that hurts.

    And in my experience I think the JP edges it, just a little.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Lance rode up the JP during his rest day. I rode up it the day before that, it's a tough climb but I honestly think Wrynose / Hardknott in the Lakes was harder for me!

    Will be interested in the assessment of someone who's done the Alp D'Huez and JP though.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    The Joux Plane is more irregular, with some steep sections and little clues as to your progress. But both are regular climbs and over in under and hour for most riders, and the Joux Plane is normally climbed quicker than the Alpe. Both are "easy" when compared to the Croix de Fer, Galibier, Iseran or other Alpine climbs.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Climbybike has indexed the climbs, worth a look.

    Joux Plane (from Samoens) http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Co ... ainID=6020

    Alpe D'Huez (from Bourg d'Oisans) http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Co ... untainID=5

    Col de la Croiz de Fer http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?qryMountainID=6109
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Kléber wrote:
    The Joux Plane is more irregular, with some steep sections and little clues as to your progress. But both are regular climbs and over in under and hour for most riders, and the Joux Plane is normally climbed quicker than the Alpe. Both are "easy" when compared to the Croix de Fer, Galibier, Iseran or other Alpine climbs.

    Really? Took me 77 minutes up the Alpe :oops:

    I thought that the Joux Plane was harder as it was steeper on parts the middle and upper sections. Alpe d'huez seemed relatively straightforward, it was steep at the bottom but i had only just started so was fresh.
  • spinningcreeps
    spinningcreeps Posts: 20
    Maybe one is harder than the other. I have just returned from Bourg and found Galibier harder than the Alpe. It's the distance and wind!
    Best ride ever in the Alps- Bourg Doisan to Villar Notre Dam,through the unlit tunnels. Then over the rough road to Villar Reculas.
    Cycling Nirvana!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Kléber wrote:
    The Joux Plane is more irregular, with some steep sections and little clues as to your progress. But both are regular climbs and over in under and hour for most riders, and the Joux Plane is normally climbed quicker than the Alpe. Both are "easy" when compared to the Croix de Fer, Galibier, Iseran or other Alpine climbs.

    Agreed on the Croix De Fer and Galibier. I did the CDF a couple of days before doing the Joux Plane against the clock and it was hard, especially as it was really hot that day. I think it reached 33 or 34 degrees. On that day we also rode with some guys who were just a little bit quicker than us and I rode harder than I'm used to. I did ok and managed to stay with them but it was bloody hard.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    spinningcreeps wrote:
    Maybe one is harder than the other. I have just returned from Bourg and found Galibier harder than the Alpe. It's the distance and wind!
    Best ride ever in the Alps- Bourg Doisan to Villar Notre Dam,through the unlit tunnels. Then over the rough road to Villar Reculas.
    Cycling Nirvana!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No point in even mentioning climbs like the Galibier against the Joux Plane or Alp Duez, as they are completely different climbs. I was only interested in the 2 in my original post because they are similar in length and gradient.
  • pdstsp
    pdstsp Posts: 1,264
    Both great climbs - just do them both and enjoy the experience.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Hoping to do JP in September, so will tell you then!
    FCN 2-4.

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    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    pdstsp wrote:
    Both great climbs - just do them both and enjoy the experience.

    Err...I have...hence my original thread...

    :roll:

    In case anyone didn't know, the JP is the climb that Landis had his "miraculous" recovery on....;-)
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Cumulonimbus wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    The Joux Plane is more irregular, with some steep sections and little clues as to your progress. But both are regular climbs and over in under and hour for most riders, and the Joux Plane is normally climbed quicker than the Alpe. Both are "easy" when compared to the Croix de Fer, Galibier, Iseran or other Alpine climbs.
    Really? Took me 77 minutes up the Alpe :oops:
    I thought that the Joux Plane was harder as it was steeper on parts the middle and upper sections. Alpe d'huez seemed relatively straightforward, it was steep at the bottom but i had only just started so was fresh.
    I’ve done them both, 14 months apart, both as part of cyclosportives. Alpe d’Huez was at the end of one (no prizes for guessing which cyclosportive), Joux Plane (from the south) was midway through a one.

    Despite having less kms in my legs that day compared to when I did Alpe d’Huez, I found Joux Plane harder. Partly it was the sun beating down on my back (it was noon and about 38-40 deg C, not a cloud in the sky), and partly (as Kleber and Cumu mention) the irregularity not allowing an easy rhythm - about halfway up, there’s a stretch of 15% between almost level stretches and similar if not so extreme variations even before then. Alpe d’Huez is never steeper than its 12% near the beginning and is then fairly regular all the way to the top.

    I don’t know my times but I would say most riders take about 70 +/- 15 mins for Joux Plane. The average time for Alpe d’Huez is probably a bit longer, and the range of times a bit wider, because its greater popularity attracts a wider range of abilities; I’d guess average is about Cumu’s time.
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    I find the Joux Plane slightly harder. Mainly because of the steep section in the middle.
    The Alpe is much more steady and easy on the mind as you always know where you are.
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  • drewfromrisca
    drewfromrisca Posts: 1,165
    Guys you have to stop now as I'm almost peeing myself with excitement...one week 2 days to go...can you tell I haven't had a proper holiday in two years!!! I'm actually getting excited about riding my bike up big hills and causing myself torture! :twisted:
    There is never redemption, any fool can regret yesterday...

    Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Have a bottle of the local Haute Savoie 'brun' beer in the excellent cafe at the summit of the Joux Plane - the view from the outside seating area is breathtaking - you'll remember it forever. 8) There is another cafe a little further on called Les Lhottys, mainly used by MTBers coming from the nearby chairlifts. But the first one is the best :)
  • drewfromrisca
    drewfromrisca Posts: 1,165
    Cheers Dodgy, I shall make a mental note of it! Might skip the beer though as I'm useless with booze and seem to get drunk on the bar girls apron smells these days!
    There is never redemption, any fool can regret yesterday...

    Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    They also do great omellettes :)
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    Have a coffee in Samoens too. Really nice town.

    I'm there on Saturday.
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  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    +1 Samoens is really nice.
  • Ginjafro
    Ginjafro Posts: 572
    Do the Joux Plane the hard way like I once did, on a Specialized Hardrock weighing in at 29lbs and knobbly tires!
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  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    dodgy wrote:
    Have a bottle of the local Haute Savoie 'brun' beer in the excellent cafe at the summit of the Joux Plane - the view from the outside seating area is breathtaking - you'll remember it forever. 8) There is another cafe a little further on called Les Lhottys, mainly used by MTBers coming from the nearby chairlifts. But the first one is the best :)

    We had expresso coffees in that cafe instead of beer..;-)
  • Abdoujaparov
    Abdoujaparov Posts: 642
    I've only done the Alpe against the clock and that was at a crawling pace through a sea of pain the end of La Marmotte. Not sure exactly how long it took me, but reckon it was about 1h30!

    I spun up the Joux Plane a few days before in about 1h which probably tells you what condition I was in on the Alpe.

    Anyway, I reckon the Joux Plane is definitely harder - it is shorter, but has some nasty steep bits and the road surface isn't as good (there was a bit of gravel on some sections when I did it).

    Despite being a similar length and average gradient they're very different climbs - the road up the Joux Plane is much, much quieter and has some truly stunning views, particularly at the top. The Alpe would be quite boring if it wasn't for its history...but that's quite some history.

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