The govornment make me p1ss

simonaspinall

One thing to remember is that the pay and working conditions of public vs. private have been perceived to be more in favour of the public sector at the expense of the private sector in the past five years.

Now I think that this would have been overblown by the Tory press but there are some elements of truth.

My housemate is a council accounts admin in the housing dept. She has a pension, flexi-time, is paid extremely well compared to a comparable private sector accounts admin, has good holiday entitlement, union protection, never takes work home and has a sense of entitlement that because she has worked in her office the longest she should be promoted. When I asked her what if there was a better candidate from elsewhere she couldn't comprehend this.

Now compared with my lot: Minimal pension contribution, stat redundancy if it happens, rigid working hours, paying for my own training courses, stat holiday and no union protection....ie pretty much no extras found elsewhere.

Now I am seeking alternative employment but I think that a lot of public employees don't quite appreciate how good they have compared to many small to medium sized business employees (ie the overwhelming number of businessesin the UK). A lot of private employees would go hand over fist for a lot of these perks but they aren't entitled to it and are pretty much powerless to do anything about it.

It's a great shame as I said in my previous post, many public employees work immensely hard and are a credit to the service they belong to, however at this point in the economy the levels of public spending are unaffordable unless taxes are raised. The improved conditions in the public service were long overdue after the previous Tory government but I can't help wondering if it has gone a step too far the other way.

Flasheart

Rick, how many politicians do you think are given a portfolio and have any sodding idea what they "really" have to do mate? I'd guess not many at all personally
It's the Civil Servants that advise these misbegotten politicians and are the real power behind the throne as it were.
The Civil Servants do it day in, day out, the politicians that have the portfolio's given to then are constantly reassigned and really are only puppet figureheads.

What I've seen day in and day out in memo's, leaked releases & first hand from managers that have had to go to regional meetings over all these years pretty much agree's with "Yes Minister"
The politicians will take all the credit when stuff goes well and will be shuffled on to another post when they "stick their oar in" and try to mess with the workings and it comes tumbling down.

Politicians make policy (whether good, bad logical or not) and the Civil Servants try and make it work, though not always well :roll:

fast as fupp

the average 'gold plated'* civil service pension is £4,200 p.a.



*copyright Daily Heil

tebbit

+ 1 for the rank and file public servants, the problem being is the increase in the size of the civil service during the last government, the Defence Procurement Agency is massive, it is about a third of the size of the combined armed forces. In the words of the late Alan Clarke "In 1890 the Royal Navy was two hundred thousand strong, with eight thousand civil servants, now in 1990 we have a Royal Navy eight thousand strong with bloody two hundred thousand civil servants to support them."

simonaspinall

Be interesting to see the impact of unions on this government

rick_chasey

simonaspinall wrote:

One thing to remember is that the pay and working conditions of public vs. private have been perceived to be more in favour of the public sector at the expense of the private sector in the past five years.

Now I think that this would have been overblown by the Tory press but there are some elements of truth.

My housemate is a council accounts admin in the housing dept. She has a pension, flexi-time, is paid extremely well compared to a comparable private sector accounts admin, has good holiday entitlement, union protection, never takes work home and has a sense of entitlement that because she has worked in her office the longest she should be promoted. When I asked her what if there was a better candidate from elsewhere she couldn't comprehend this.

Now compared with my lot: Minimal pension contribution, stat redundancy if it happens, rigid working hours, paying for my own training courses, stat holiday and no union protection....ie pretty much no extras found elsewhere.

Now I am seeking alternative employment but I think that a lot of public employees don't quite appreciate how good they have compared to many small to medium sized business employees (ie the overwhelming number of businessesin the UK). A lot of private employees would go hand over fist for a lot of these perks but they aren't entitled to it and are pretty much powerless to do anything about it.

It's a great shame as I said in my previous post, many public employees work immensely hard and are a credit to the service they belong to, however at this point in the economy the levels of public spending are unaffordable unless taxes are raised. The improved conditions in the public service were long overdue after the previous Tory government but I can't help wondering if it has gone a step too far the other way.

I think it depends what industry you work in....

Pross

fast as fupp wrote:

the average 'gold plated'* civil service pension is £4,200 p.a.



*copyright Daily Heil

The Civil Service's own website says (in its Mythbusters section) that the average is £6,500. What it doesn't say is what the average length of service is that results in that figure. Baring in mind that I did 8 years in local government which I believe has a slightly lower pension rate and my final salary was about £17,500 my pension payout in todays money is going to be about £3,000. So on that basis anyone with a full 40 years service even at the lower ends of Civil Service pay is going to be earning substantially more than that average. My 12 years on my current company pension scheme (earnings averaging significantly higher) has left me with a pot that could buy an annuity of about the same if I don't take a lump sum or a bit less with a lump sum. Civil Servants may have lots a downsides to their jobs but their pension isn't one of them.

simonaspinall

Very true...I think it's more dependent on the size of the company you work in.

Also going back to the point of a lower paid private sector worker subsidising a higher paid public sector worker's pension before making his/her own contribution...how fair is that?!

guilliano

I still don't get the whole "generating wealth" argument. The people that "generate wealth" are surely the frontline people.... the ones that deal with the money. We are talking the bank staff, the retail workers, the call centre staff....... yet these are the lowest paid, the ones who have no wealth! The money goes to the people who have no idea what it takes to make the money, they just make the decisions that hinder the income (going from previous experience).

tebbit

It isn't the frontline bank staff, retail or call centre staff who generate wealth, if anything they recycle money around, it is manufacturing workers who generate wealth and unfortunately the bankers in the city who sold the "expertise", to other countries. It is the selling of goods and services overseas that generates wealth.

guilliano

Manufacturing staff recycle money just as much as retail or bank staff. Retailers buy of manufacturers using customer money after all. Manufacturers use that money to buy raw materials. Miners etc use that money to buy land. Technically wealth isn't generated, just shifted between the rich few while the low paid many continue moving it round

Aggieboy

Thatcher. :roll:

guilliano

How rude!!!

turkeytickler

spen666 wrote:

turkeytickler wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

there are loads of public sector jobs which are absolutely vital to the functioning of our society.

i know, and plenty others that are not.

Clearly though, there are not enough good public sector employees teaching English

Absolutely. So let us work together to resolve this issue. Let me help you first, what you need to do is place one of these:

.

at the end of a sentence.

Woolfie

Frank I feel your pain. I am private sector coincidentallly also in Nottingham and the public cuts are directly affecting the company I work for. I have also been in full employment and worked hard to remain so whilst bringing up a family of two. Its not easy to swallow Cameron's 'we are all in this together' when it feels like him and Clegg are threatening my livelihood and modest (but vital to me) family income and dandy Osbourne is pissing about actually looking like he is enjoying cutting people loose, no doubt to be then labelled as wasters once out of employment.

Cleat Eastwood

I think the problems started when banks started advertising they were having sales.

I bought a fiver for 2.50 but when I got home it was a cheap chinese reproduction.

Cleat Eastwood

Aggieboy wrote:

Thatcher. :roll:

Wiggle