New Forks or Hydraulic Brakes?

Drazisaur

Hi,
I'm looking to upgrade either my forks or brakes but i can't decide which.

My current set up is:

Deore V-Brakes and levers, front and rear.

Rock Shox Dart 3 Forks.

I'm looking to upgrade to Shimano XT hydraulic brakes, or I quite like the look of the Rock Shox Tora 302s.

So which should it be, forks, or brakes? My budget is about £200 ish

Thanks in advance.

Uchiga

Well to be honest i would kill to have a set of Rock Shox Darts... Quite jealous to be honest.

I personally would suggest the brakes but do you really need to go for XT? Nice though it sounds why not save on some money and get some SLX and set them up nicely? I would personally go for the brakes out of personal preferance. No point being able to ride comfortably if you cant stop in my opinion

Chunkers1980

weight might help to make a decision.

new forks will save weight

Disc brakes will add weight.

Don't forget you nee disc mounts on the frame too - if not forks it is.

200 is not enough to do both - if you want better forks.

A reasonable set of hydros is 100 and for a better fork 200, I'd say save and both.

If nothing really wrong with forks do the brakes, and just get a decent set of hyrdos ~150...

moggy82

Brakes definitely, whats going to provide the biggest advantage, you already have suspension forks albeit not the greatest in the world but they do the job, disc brakes is a necessity on a proper trail bike so do this and keep an eye out for a good deal on a fork! Im assuming your looking on merlin at the brakes!

101_North

Actually you could upgrade the forks and brakes for a little over £200 I reckon. A set of Juicy 3's from Merlin including rotors is about £100 quid and you can certainly pick up versions of Toras for just over £100. Merlin selling the 130mm Tora 302's for £109 or for a little more some 100mm Recons at £125. Up your budget to about £225 and you could do both.

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop ... s/list.htm

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop ... +_2057.htm

101

Uchiga

*Shudders at the sound of Avid Juicey Threes* If you're going for Avids get the elixors or the really high spec ones. If you want a new set of hyrdrolics at low cost go for Shimano. Parts for money wise Shimano Cheap hyrdrolic disc brakes are better than Avid cheap hydrolic disc brakes. This is from experience. Cheap Shimano M595's from Merlin with a wheelset vs my brothers cheap Avid Juicy 3's well i havent had any hassle bleeding my shimanos on my own havent had any problems with changing pads at all.

My brother on the other hand now has to buy a specific Avid bleed kit and also has broken the pistons when changing the pads cos he couldnt get the old ones out...

ride_whenever

Are your wheels disc ready? If not then you've got a problem.

Personally i find v-brakes to work fine in the dry and just about in the wet. TBH if your wheels aren't disc ready then you're going to have to do the whole lot in one go for it to make sense unless you can find some of the older tora 318 forks with v-brake bosses second hand.

But the best course of action depends on if your wheels are disc ready.

Pudseyp

Yup..if your current wheels aren't disc specific these will cost around a £100 again from Merlin...

xtreem

We might have another problem.
The brake levers might be combined with the shifters.

We need more info.

Uchiga

For £180 you can get wheels and disc brakes with rotors from Merlin... Thats what i did and i dont regret it robably the best descion i made in a long time. Far better than buying myself a new set of forks because with wheels and tyres you can make a big differance in terms of weight.

stuisnew

Just to be different I think that V's are light and if set up ok will do a job but a cheap fork will let you down.

I'd definitely go for the fork upgrade.

You can do discs at a later date and for cheaper (assuming levers aren't combined with shifters, huibs and frame are ok etc etc ) so less time to save up again.

stuisnew

moggy82 wrote:

Brakes definitely, whats going to provide the biggest advantage, you already have suspension forks albeit not the greatest in the world but they do the job, disc brakes is a necessity on a proper trail bike so do this and keep an eye out for a good deal on a fork! Im assuming your looking on merlin at the brakes!

Its a matter of preference and opinion.

V's are the greatest in the world but they do a job?!

A decent set of v's set up properly will have a minor difference to braking power over cheap hydro discs. Having your forks constantly bottom out and your hands flying off the bar because of over exuberant rebound will cause more probelms on a trail than a V brake.

ride_whenever

I agree with this ^

apart from the fact it is getting harder and harder to find decent forks with v-bosses.

Uchiga

stuisnew wrote:

Its a matter of preference and opinion.

V's are the greatest in the world but they do a job?!

A decent set of v's set up properly will have a minor difference to braking power over cheap hydro discs. Having your forks constantly bottom out and your hands flying off the bar because of over exuberant rebound will cause more probelms on a trail than a V brake.

I would like to point out V brakes set up well may be better than cable discs but hydrolic brakes i would question quite a bit. I had a set of single digit 5's on my Carrera and ive stuck hydrolic discs on it. Stopping power and distance and feeling in the brakes are twice as good as my V brakes. And i was fussy with my V brakes. My V Brakes would stop me and send me over my handle bars in the dry and in the wet once my tyres gripped but my disc brakes do that with far less effort. Ive also ridden with cable discs....

To say the least i would spend the extra £20 on a set of hydraulic discs to cable discs for that extra power.

ride_whenever

Then your v-brakes weren't set up properly. Modulation and control on well set up v brakes is excellent, i prefer it over any of the hydros i've used. What i don't like is the regular maintenance, the wear on rims, and the higher levels of force required.

The point is with correctly set up v brakes you've got enough power on there for technical riding, as long as you've got the suspension to handle it. A decent well controlled fork offers far more speed than a set of hydros. However the hydros are easier to live with, more resilient and require less force input which is less tiring. In my experience, a poor fork is far more tiring than v-brakes though.

Uchiga

My V brakes were perfectly set up thank you very much. i had a shop do them to begin with and i was like... Nah so i set them up myself and they were 3 times better. Better than any cable disc but not better than a set of hydrolic discs. My brother has some formula R1's and to be honest i know they cost 200 but gettign a V rbake to work like them would take you years. The forks he has on his bike are better than my Suntour XCR's and to be honest i'm not changing my forks for a while cos they do the job fine they're just heavy. Theyve been set up to how i like them and they work perfectly. Brakes on the other hand are more important.

ride_whenever

Not if you cannot get enough speed up to need them.

A well controlled fork keeps the front wheel tracking better, which immediately improves the front brake performance. You hit things faster because your more in control. Once you're hitting things faster then you find yourself needing the extra power from discs.

Uchiga

He has a set of rock shox darts... Better than a set of suntour XCR's anyday. My suntour XCR's came with discs when i bought my bike. He only has V brakes. I would still go for the discs in his position even if i couldnt get the speed. The control and feel you get through discs is more than any well set up V brake. To be honest knowing how to set up the forks you have is actually better. Ive seen people on Fox Talas's and thigns complainning that they arent good enough. And here i am sitting on my Suntour XCR's with one eyebrow raised.

Drazisaur

Wow, thanks for the responses, all really help and raise points that i haven't thought of before, just to be clear, both my wheels are disk ready, as are my forks, as is my frame.

I'm leaning towards getting the brakes, the idea of having to apply less force is appealing, as expending huge amounts of pressure on v-brakes when going downhill on a very un-even track is quite perilous! Hadn't considered that I might be able to get both, i'll certainly look into it. Thanks for the tip on merlin, haven't been there before, to be honest i don't know alot of mountain bike shops online, usually go to Evans. They have turned out to be quite expensive!

Didn't think topic this would be so divisive!

Thanks again.

Uchiga

Well there is Wiggle, Chainreaction, Merlin and if you look around there are a few ebay shops as well

Drazisaur

@ Xtreem, my break levers and shifters are separate.

Thanks.

uk_stretch

While I agree that Avid Juicy brakes are a bit of a pain to bleed - I'd be inclined to say that anyone who manages to destroy the pistons pulling the pads out should maybe think about leaving their bike maintenance to someone with opposable thumbs.

Juicy 3s at Merlin prices are a major bargain. (Merlin also a very good shop) The three is just slightly more basic 5. I run 5's and while they are probably in-line for upgrading - they do a good job of stopping a 190lb rider on a 22lb bike with 160mm rotors fore and aft.

But if you have your heart set on XT Ribble cycles were selling them at a good price (but without discs etc) but generally there are a lot of newer designs that do it better (eg the current Deore) - hence the availability of XT at big discounts.

Given that even Formula RX's are out of budget not sure why Formula R1s are in discussion but I think RockShot Darts paired with Formula R1s is a very strange allocation of budget! :shock: ... or maybe I'm missing something...

Upgrading is all about balance.

ride_whenever

For the money available, if you're wanting discs go for the avid elixir 5's from merlin. They're a cracking little pair of brakes and work very well, far easier to live with than the juicies.

Drazisaur

Well, having looked at merlin and ribble, my options seem to have balooned!!

I haven't really got my heart set on XT, its just that was the kind of quality upgrade i was looking for, but if the new Deore disk brakes are just as good/ better, i wouldn't discount them just because they didn't have XT in the name.

I've specified shimano as that is all i really know, i don't know about the relative quality of similar AVID or Formula components. Would an AVID 5 disk break be of similar quality to XT?

I think i've decided i'll probably wait to upgrade my forks when i've got a bit more money. Having seen the prices of shifters and derailleurs on ribble, i'm thinking about upgrading those too now!!

uk_stretch

Best bet is to check out the reviews on all the sites to see what the general population thinks about the product. Shimano were great but the designs are due to be revised (maybe they have been does the 2011 groupset include brakes? ) The real positive is that it is easier to get pad/rotor clearance with the Shimano Servo stuff brakes. (SLX too)

The Avid brakes are top quality (check out the XX!) but some of the designs (eg Juicy) are getting on a bit. Elixir I believe is very good but don't have any personal experience. (As I said my J5s get the job done.)

My big bro runs old XTR on his Blur and has no issues with them even though they are ancient.

Formula seem to be getting the best reviews at the moment but even the RX is £200+ F&R They are very powerful with good feel and weigh very little!

But as with all forums and review sites you'll see a lot of "I had and they were rubbish" and "I have and they are the best things ever" - take it all with a pinch I think one of the recent bike mag reviews of disc brakes commented that the baseline was all of them worked well. Tektro, Hayes, Hope, Magura, Funn - and so on.

I'd put some Formula R1s on my bike in a minute if they weren't £200 out of budget! I don't race and I'm not prepared to fling that much cash just for bling.

supersonic

I'd get a new fork, but a worthwhile fork will generally not have V brake mounts. I would wait until you can afford brakes and fork.

Reba and Exlix 5 is a decent bet.

I wouldn't be too worried about spending loadson lightweight brakes if you are keeping the Dart - it weighs 5 lbs. A reba weighs 3.6lbs.

Overall a lighter, better controlled fork will make the most difference.

Uchiga

Well Formula R1's Were My Extreme example...

I have a set of Shimano 595's which are the deore set and they are as far as im concerned amazing brakes for the money. I'd compare Avids to Shimano as

Juicy 3 - Deore
Juicy 5 - SLX
Juicy 7 - XT

The Elixer Series i Believe is like the top range Deore and top range SLX and XT. My 595's on my Scott Being top Deore ones and my 485's which were swapped from my Scott to my singlespeed being more like bottom of the range deore.

My experience with Avids is that they feel squashier as far as hydrolics compare to my shimano ones and thas after they've been bled. And yer Avids and Hayes are said to be the two hardest/ more annoying ones to bleed. Shimano are simple in that respect.

Oh and my brother does all the mainanence on his bikes on his own and has done for the past 4 or 5 years at a far higher quality than any bike shop i know. Its just that Avids are a pain in the arse. He has not had such a problem with any of his other hydrolic brakes such as his shimano LX and his formula R1's and another set of Deores in there as well as the numerous bike maintainence he does on his friends bike which mainly include shimano hope and magura and hayes brakes. Avids are the first brakes hes encountered that hes had problems with.

supersonic

Juicies I don't like. Elixir though are MUCH better - easier to bleed, better lever feel. Just an old round better brake.

Juicies are obsolete now anyway, only old stock left and I would avoid.

stuisnew

supersonic wrote:

I'd get a new fork, but a worthwhile fork will generally not have V brake mounts. I would wait until you can afford brakes and fork.

Reba and Exlix 5 is a decent bet.

I wouldn't be too worried about spending loadson lightweight brakes if you are keeping the Dart - it weighs 5 lbs. A reba weighs 3.6lbs.

Overall a lighter, better controlled fork will make the most difference.

Yeah, another buy a fork vote!!

cavegiant

+1 on Fork.

The dart is awful beginers equipment and should not be considered part of the Rock Shox range.

If you can stretch to the Tora 318 you will have a fork that will last you a long time and let your skill grow.

I quite liked my old STX Rc V-brakes, but you are right, all hydraulic brakes (excluding Hayes Sole) are far better. However my shimano XT were very poor value, pricy and not very good.

I would save up longer and get a Tora 318 and a pair of shimano Deore brakes at the same time.

The reason for the huge division, is you really want both!

If you have to buy now, 100% get rid of that embarrasment of the fork.

Uchiga

I'd kill to have a set of darts on my bike at the moment Suntour XCR's leave a bit to be desired. Even though they did hel launch me to third in a local race along with Alivio and Acera drive chain.

At the end fo the day its not all about What you ride as much as it is more like How you ride. I singlespeed on a mountian bike esentially with 26x1.35 tyres up to 95psi again people on full carbon road bikes with Ultegra SL and i beat them all up the hills and i can keep up with them on flats and down hills despite my heavy frame etc.