Wiggo calls it a day

mercsport

Will L wrote:

mercsport wrote:

It's a condition I cannot see Cavendish duplicating in the foreseeable future. Now, there's a lad that is hungry, and I expect he might possibly end up the greatest WINNER of GT stages in history. It's difficult to see him wimping out of a challenge to his adequacy with a sanguine brush off like "....it's only seconds. It'll be minutes in Paris". Or words to that effect.

Well.....I'm a great fan of Cavendish, but his self-proclaimed goal was apparently to win the Green jersey, but when it came to the crunch (e.g. keeping competing when not going to win the stage, needing to contest intermediates), things changed a bit. And yes, I could see him duplicating, or more so - Cavendish rides on confidence, and if he ever loses that, it can so easily fall apart.

What did you expect Wiggins to say? "OMG, I've had disastrous prologue, that's the end of the tour for me!"?
BTW how long is a fleeting moment, given the months and years it takes to train to reachand sustain the levels he has on both the track and the road (including that three week fleeting moment last year)?

"What did you expect Wiggins to say? "OMG, I've had disastrous prologue, that's the end of the tour for me!"?"

No, but he didn't seem terribly contrite either. He could have said he'd effed it up big time, but that he'd be going balls out all the way to Paris. He didn't though. A shrug and a 'c'est la vie' was about it. Cav' in a similar posotion, would likely have been inconsolable with grief and self torment. I can see why he fell out with W at the Olympics.

"BTW how long is a fleeting moment, given the months and years it takes to train to reachand sustain the levels he has on both the track and the road (including that three week fleeting moment last year)?"

For me a fleeting moment is when I'm watching the telly, piling on the lard, seeing W whack it around the track for a few minutes and stuffing the opposition for a couple of races or so. Then he went and let his chum Cav down in the one race Cav wanted to win.

In reply to those that might class me as a 'moaner', I ain't (at least I don't think so), but were I to see into the eyes of W (...impossible, as he never takes his shades off! Got something to hide maybe. The eyes of a deceiver?) I imagine I would see the imprint of one who only remains in the game for the lolly that's left to be had at the end of his career.
Again, to compare him with Cav, I can imagine Cav doing it all for nothing and the joy of riding the bike, board and lodging, and a bit of dosh for evening spends.

I hope I'm wrong in all respects though, for it would be a delight to see him come good again or, rather, up to expectations.

andyp

squired wrote:

When you are in a position of responsibility you need to lead by example - that is how you earn respect. It is partly why most bosses in the workplace are the last to leave in the evening, not first out of the door.

You've not met my boss then, rarely in before 11, usually gone by 4.

Maybe Wiggins was inspired by him? :evil:

Will L

mercsport wrote:

For me a fleeting moment is when I'm watching the telly, piling on the lard, seeing W whack it around the track for a few minutes and stuffing the opposition for a couple of races or so. Then he went and let his chum Cav down in the one race Cav wanted to win.

You mean after all those fleeting moments in the previous races? He was on a pretty tough racing schedule over the previous four days, which included six races, two golds, and two world records. Not surprising that when he got to the Madison at the end he was knackered. That stuffing of the opposition takes a hell of a lot of time and commitment. Nobody who reaches that level of competition can be the sort of dilettante you seem to have the impression he is.

An interesting point made by Cavendish was, yes he was "p***ed off" with BW, but he was more annoyed with what he saw as Olympic managements lack of support for the Madison, with BW having to focus on the 4k rather than the Madison's 50k. But then, all we have to go on are the media reports.

Cavendish's great skill is that he is a sprinter - something he does remarkably well. Wiggins's great skill is as a pursuiter/time triallist, something he also does remarkably well. Wiggins looks to be now working outside his immediate comfort zone; Cavendish is yet to get to that stage. The comparison you make is somewhat invidious, for that, and because people react in completely different ways. Cavendish wears his heart on his sleeve, Wiggins is somewhat more considered - sort of reflects their respective metiers and, possibly, ages. Both are great cyclists.

stagehopper

mercsport wrote:

"What did you expect Wiggins to say? "OMG, I've had disastrous prologue, that's the end of the tour for me!"?"

No, but he didn't seem terribly contrite either. He could have said he'd effed it up big time, but that he'd be going balls out all the way to Paris. He didn't though. A shrug and a 'c'est la vie' was about it. Cav' in a similar posotion, would likely have been inconsolable with grief and self torment. I can see why he fell out with W at the Olympics.

"BTW how long is a fleeting moment, given the months and years it takes to train to reachand sustain the levels he has on both the track and the road (including that three week fleeting moment last year)?"

For me a fleeting moment is when I'm watching the telly, piling on the lard, seeing W whack it around the track for a few minutes and stuffing the opposition for a couple of races or so. Then he went and let his chum Cav down in the one race Cav wanted to win.

In reply to those that might class me as a 'moaner', I ain't (at least I don't think so), but were I to see into the eyes of W (...impossible, as he never takes his shades off! Got something to hide maybe. The eyes of a deceiver?) I imagine I would see the imprint of one who only remains in the game for the lolly that's left to be had at the end of his career.
Again, to compare him with Cav, I can imagine Cav doing it all for nothing and the joy of riding the bike, board and lodging, and a bit of dosh for evening spends.

I hope I'm wrong in all respects though, for it would be a delight to see him come good again or, rather, up to expectations.

I'd never called you a "moaner". It's an opinion after all. I might call you mentally challenged though given the simplistically naive analysis you've applied above.

mercsport

stagehopper wrote:

I'd never called you a "moaner". It's an opinion after all. I might call you mentally challenged though given the simplistically naive analysis you've applied above.

Interestingly, chum, looking back over this thread I cannot see any great insights to have issued from your fertile noggin on the issue of W's lack of form either. :?

jerry3571

I think people here are moaning just for the sake of moaning.
Wiggo was aiming for a high finish and it didn't happen so he was really honest and sad about it. He got his big Salary from last years performance which was a risk that Sky were willing to take. The gamble didn't pay off . Sky and Wiggo have to deal with that and I'm sure his next contract will take in his performance from this years Tour as well as his last year's performance.
There have been riders that have one good race per career and there are others who go up and down and others who always come up with the goods. Life's risk and Sky took that risk and lost; so what? That's business.

I am interested in how riders form seems to evaporate and underperform in such a big way. Wiggo was really off the pace this time; maybe this years Mountains were a lot harder than last years and with less Time Trialing too. I don't know.
I have read that riders are targetted by the Doping Investigators and some riders seem to have a very barren periods these days and I'm not sure whether this is all related. (Barren periods- Cunego, Petacchi, etc).

Cheers Jerry

pedro118118

Much of this is completely over the top.

I don't think it's remotely fair to accuse Wiggo of not caring, not trying etc. He clearly was trying, but the bottom line is he just isn't in the same league as Schleck and Contador. There are a number of riders, who are competing for second, and that's his level (Menchov, Gessink, Van d Broek, Evans, Sanchez etc).

Of course everyone has an opinion on the Sky 'project' and their focus on the Tour GC. To my mind, I like to see riders targeting races they can win. Having a Paris-Nice, Criterium International, Dauphine, Tirreno etc on the palmares is better than 9th on GC at the Tour. But then again, that's just my view...

One thing I do find hard to beleive is that he is 'over raced'. Sure, he's spent a fair time in the saddle with a number pinned on, but in the vast majority of these races he rolled along with one eye on his SRM to ensure he was folliowing his training plan. He rode fairly hard for the first week of the Giro (before it got hard), but other than that???

Kléber

I don't think Wiggo's to blame. If anything, he got sucked into a system that left him little choice but to play along with the media and their desire for bold headlines and big promises.

His twitter account was turned off by the Sky media people, he had to repeat in interviews that he was aiming for the podium... which meant the media would judge him on whether he reached 3rd spot or better, 5th place would be a failure in some sections.

I hope it works out for him. He is a real talent, not in the GC contender mold, but taking an effective six month break from competition is a big pause, his palmares is light already and it would be good if he could pick off a win or two before 2010 closes.

Will L

pedro, kleber - agree entirely, including the bit about over-racing. I suspect it's more to do with mental than physical tiredness. In a way that result in the TdF last year didn't do him any favours - the sudden leap into 'podium contention'. A top 10 result would have given him a bit more latitude and a bit more to aim for, but after that anything less than podium was, as said, always liable to be seen as failure.

Pross

I'd like to see him come back next season with a bit of weight back on (I'm convinced he's lost too much) and have a crack at the likes of Roubaix or (possibly) L-B-L. I think Sky have the makings of a good classics team with their current squad and could potentially win any of the Spring Classics with the likes of Wiggins, EBH, Flecha or Thomas. Then as Kleber says the shorter stage races (Wiggins could surely win De Panne? Thomas did well in the Dauphine). Obviously these won't have the publicity impact outside cycling circles that a podium finish in a GT will have but we have to be realistic and see that BW is the best chance of that happening with a British rider but even in his case it is unlikely. So Sky either need to amend their short term aims to other races or Tour stage wins or to winning the Tour with a non-British rider.

jerry3571

I think that some people would cross him off doing well at a Grand Tour again but I think it is still early days as he has proven to be able to be up with the top contenders and somehow the form didn't come together this year. The sport is littered with one hit wonders but it's too early to say whether wiggo has joined this list yet.

-Jerry

Yellow Peril

Perhaps the marginal gains philosophy has been misconstrued as marginal effort by some of the Sky team?

I think Wiggins is a far better rider than he showed in the TDF and could win a minor Tour with the correct prep.

Anyway at least Thomas had a good dig. He gives his all and never seems to quit. I think the real future of Sky lies with him and Peter Kennaugh.

pedro118118

I agree - it was always going to be hard to replicate/better what was a break-through performance. The pressure on GC riders at the Tour is immense - especially those who pin their enture season on those 3 weeks in July.

Result credibility issues aside (?!), I always admired Valverde's refusal to gamble his entire season on the Tour and as a consequence he has a pretty packed palmares *

* please don't turn this into a doping thread - I appreciate he's a cheat serving a ban.

mercsport

Yellow Peril wrote:

Perhaps the marginal gains philosophy has been misconstrued as marginal effort by some of the Sky team?

I think Wiggins is a far better rider than he showed in the TDF and could win a minor Tour with the correct prep.

Anyway at least Thomas had a good dig. He gives his all and never seems to quit. I think the real future of Sky lies with him and Peter Kennaugh.

+ 1

Plus, I suspect Ben Swift will be up there soon.

Pross

I note the last comment but surely there's a chance that was instrumental in him being able to ride all year? Brad isn't exactly a youngster so doesn't have the benefit of time on his side to improve. I didn't expect him to match last year but at the same time I thought he'd be better than he was, he looked genuinely knackered despite his relative lack of racing days so I'm really surprised anyone is expecting him to do any further racing.