Riding 'primary' (or a few feet out into the carriageway

salsajake

Is there anywhere that says cyclists should ride to the left hand edge of the road? I hear people talking about when or when not to ride 'primary' but is there any rules on it? The reason I ask is that there is a windy piece of road on my commute and it isn't wide enough to have a bike and 2 cars passing. That doesn't stop people trying, so to discourage them I will ride in the middle of 'my' 'lane'. That reduces the number of people who overtake on blind bends, but there is still usually at least one a day who decides to do it anyway. If there is a crash into oncoming traffic I am sure they will say that I should have been over to the left and therefore I should be implicated in determining fault (at least in part, because clearly it would be the overtake that led to the crash). Is there an easy way of demonstrating that that argument is wrong?

gaz545

Cyclecraft. Get it, read it. Best £13 spent for a cyclist.

basically you are not doing anything wrong. The iam (institute of advanced motorists) even say that cyclists may need to cycle in the middle of the lane.
Any half decent traffic cop should know you can and should be doing this in some situations.

I have a video showing my road position and how I act when I take primary, I will post it later on.
What I do suggest is to look behind you a lot when in primary, it is much easier to see who the knobs are going to be and tout can swerve to avoid then

davis

salsajake wrote:

Is there an easy way of demonstrating that that argument is wrong?

Yep. If someone decides to overtake in a silly place and something bad happens, it's their fault. I've highlighted the word "decides" because it would be their decision to overtake there. *waits to be shot down by the legal minutiae cannon.

Continue asserting primary where necessary as it clearly discourages some people. If it isn't necessary though, I tend not to do it.

salsajake

thanks, will have a look for the book. As the road straightens out, I peel back to the left to allow people more space to come past, otherwise it would be pretty pointless to stay out there, but I think a lot of people get the message, if they are behind me through the whole section I give them a wave of acknowledgement too. Its a moderate climb and I am averaging about 10mph, but most of it is a 30 zone so shouldn't dealy people unduly, just the odd numpty who decides the additional 20-30 seconds gained when they get to the next junction is worth chancing a head on collision or swerving left and taking the cyclist (I think we can all guess which option most numpties would choose in that situation.)

Great idea about looking behind - shows the driver behind that you aren't being ignorant but are doing it for a reason if nothing else, I've never really done that, but can hear whenever someone is behind, so I'll start doing that.

davis

salsajake wrote:

Great idea about looking behind - shows the driver behind that you aren't being ignorant but are doing it for a reason if nothing else, I've never really done that, but can hear whenever someone is behind, so I'll start doing that.

It also lets drivers (well, the ones paying attention) know that you might move out/turn soon. Early warning, innit?

salsajake

Yep, I often think that the longer you can keep a motorist guessing about what you might do, the less inclined they will be to do something assertive - so giving the impression you might be about to do something, even if you don't, could have some merits on its own!

cee

yip...

I often 'block' cars from overtaking me on very narrow or twisty roads where there is not enough space for them to overtake...particularly when they would not be able to see round a corner for oncoming traffic and any overtake where a car was coming the other way would probably result in them moving towards me.

Like you say...I do pull back in when it is safe for them to overtake and often raise a hand to say Cheers..

as for shoulder checking....I probably shoulder check more than i need to, but its never done me any harm...and i like knowing whats around me!

SmellTheGlove

Primary is a life saver but it can be difficult to judge the right circumstances to use it; it sounds like you're doing the right thing "claiming" the road. In case of incident, what leg would a driver have to stand on? Imagine the driver misjudged the presence of say, a parked vehicle, a wild animal, you name it - it would be exactly that, the driver's misjudgment of the conditions (which admittedly is no consolation in the worst case of course).
Stick to your guns without being clumsy or discourteous and everyone arrives happy.

tjwood

'Primary' is a stupid name for it. There should be no 'default' position in the road - you should be constantly assessing the road conditions around you and taking up an appropriate position in the road for the hazards you are negotiating.

That could be half a metre from the edge of the road on a long straight section, to allow other vehicles to overtake. It could be towards the middle of the lane when approaching traffic lights where you are proceeding straight on or to afford you a better view around a tight left hand bend or to make you most visible when travelling round a roundabout, all situations where nobody with any sense would be trying to overtake you. It could be towards the right hand edge of the lane, or even into the opposite lane, if you are passing parked cars on your side of the road (where you will be allowing at least enough space for a car door to open...). It could be half a metre from the right hand edge of your lane if you are approaching a junction where you will be turning right.

Basically the only place on the road you should never find yourself is in the gutter... unless you end up there as a result of some evasive action.

You'll notice that all of the above is more or less true no matter what vehicle you are driving... bike, car, van, bus, lorry...

gaz545

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRONsqlL1q8

my video on positioning.

EKE_38BPM

Salsajake,as everyone has said, keep doing what you're doing, it sounds like the right thing to me.
What car is that in your avatar. Looks like a prototype sportscar.

Gaz, I've been asked to teach a novice how to ride in traffic and I'll be recommending your video(s) to her.

tjwood

gaz545 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRONsqlL1q8

my video on positioning.

Nice.

In city traffic I'd be glancing behind (and left and right) a lot more frequently than you were. Apart from that not a lot to disagree with there.

salsajake

tjwood makes some good points.

The avatar is a Porsche 917, though the picture has been hugely corrupted as I downscaled it!