Almost taken out but....

Headhuunter

....I'm sure it wasn't my fault. I want to ask your advice about the junction below, I hope the link shows it properly. The lights phasing has changed recently. Yesterday I was emerging from the road opposite the view in the second link below, from alongside the building with the blue side. I don't know if anyone knows this spot but I had just cycled along the cycle lane that passes under the DLR tracks nexto to Deptford Bridge station, moved onto the road and up to the red light to wait.

If you wait obediently at the thick white line at the red light you are actually a long way back from the actual junction. Previously the lights were 3 way - traffic passing across in front of where this view in the 2nd link below is taken from, then traffic from the direction of this view and lastly traffic from where I was waiting. Now there are only 2 phases. When the lights changed to green for me, I proceeded to try to cross the junction, to go straight on, however most traffic is trying to turn right with the main road, to cycle along Deptford Bridge and under the station, so in my view I have right of way to move straight on across the junction, however I got blasted by cars turning right across my path - drivers were honking and swearing at me as I crossed the junction.

Was I in the wrong? The road markings have been repainted since the Google photo was taken and the yellow hatched area is very clearly marked now. There is no dashed give way line or anything at the mouth of the road opposite (the road wich I was emerging from).

This is the view I had across the junction except this shot is taken from part way across the junction, Google didn't do a shot from the actual red light I was waiting at
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=fi ... =en&tab=wl

This is a shot taken from across the other side of the junction. The red light I was at is the other side of the far cyclist, you can see a 2nd black post, the further one, that's where the lights are and where I was waiting. Most cars are passing across the mouth of the road I was emerging from to turn right to go under Deptford Bridge DLR (the station is on the bridge, above ground)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=fi ... =en&tab=wl

In my view I had right of way to cross and cars turning right should give way. Was I wrong? Funny thing is,. normally I would have crossed the thick white line further back and waited right at the mouth of the junction and would easily have made it across the junction before the cars on the other side had started moving across. Either that or I would have RLJed, which ironically would have put me out of harms way. However this time I was with a friend, a newbie cyclist and was on my best behaviour. Never again!

asprilla

Your links dont work for me in Firefox.

tarquin_foxglove

Asprilla wrote:

Your links dont work for me in Firefox.

Nor me but from the description, maybe here...

Headhuunter

Oh yeah.... They don't work for me either now.... I use Firefox too. Not sure what to do. the junction is where Greenwich High Rd meets Blackheath Rd and Deptford Bridge. Right by Deptford Bridge DLR. I was emerging from the road opposite Greenwich HR from a road with no name which comes out of the new estate of trendy flats next to the DLR station... Not sure if that helps

Headhuunter

tarquin_foxglove wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Your links dont work for me in Firefox.

Nor me but from the description, maybe here...

Yes, that's it. I was emerging from the road on the left and Greenwich HR is on the right, so traffic was cutting across in front of me to go under Deptford Br Station

Kieran_Burns

HH looks like you used the URL in the address bar and not the link you get from using the 'link' button on the right.

Try again and paste the links given when you are in streetview and it'll work.

Headhuunter

Kieran_Burns wrote:

HH looks like you used the URL in the address bar and not the link you get from using the 'link' button on the right.

Try again and paste the links given when you are in streetview and it'll work.

OK, hang on. I'm a bit sh!t with computers. I can just about write and post here but more technical than that and it's a bit over my head.... Just a mo...

Headhuunter

OK, I've replaced the links in eth 2nd part of the message....


This is the view I had across the junction except this shot is taken from part way across the junction, Google didn't do a shot from the actual red light I was waiting at
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 29.38,,0,5

This is a shot taken from across the other side of the junction. The red light I was at is the other side of the far cyclist, you can see a 2nd black post, the further one, that's where the lights are and where I was waiting. Most cars are passing across the mouth of the road I was emerging from to turn right to go under Deptford Bridge DLR (the station is on the bridge, above ground)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 09.38,,0,5

deptfordmarmoset

HH, this junction came up on the Greenwich Cyclists Group a short while ago(I think Lewisham Cyclists first raised the issue) so I went and had a look - and it's one of those messed up junctions where might is right. They did get a response - and almost an apology - from TfL though:

Thank you for your recent e-mail dated 9 June. As you have also written to Len Duvall AM, I am copying this response to his office.

In our previous response to your e-mail dated 16 April 2010, we acknowledged your concern that cyclists emerging from Deal's Gateway are experiencing occasional difficulty. We stated in this response that we are developing a proposal to relocate the position of the stopline in Deal's Gateway - this is by approximately 14 metres towards the junction with the Advanced Cycle Stopline retained. I would like to assure you that we will aim to deliver this before the autumn. This will require relocation of signal poles and additional ducting under the footway. This will increase visibility of users in Deal's Gateway. Our proposed design includes carriageway markings in the junction to raise awareness of traffic in Greenwich High Road that they are turning right. We envisage this will reduce the instance of right turners from Greenwich High Road not giving way to ahead traffic and cyclists from Deal's Gateway.

We have considered changes to signal timings but we found this to be detrimental to overall junction capacity. As such, no changes to signal timings are proposed.

We consider that the signs installed to inform traffic that signal timings have changed are sited in appropriate locations, and the sign dimensions meet standards.

I am sorry to learn that motorists from Greenwich High Road making the right turn into Deptford Bridge have either ignored you, or have displayed aggressive behaviour. This is inappropriate and suggests that a proportion of motorists are not driving with due care and attention to cyclists. We envisage that motorists' behaviour will change over time to the new layout.



Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused and I do hope the above has helped in answering your questions. Should you require assistance with any further issues, please feel free to contact us again.



Yours sincerely



Sara Reynaga

Customer Service Advisor - London Streets

Transport for London
Surface Transport Customer Services

Headhuunter

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

HH, this junction came up on the Greenwich Cyclists Group a short while ago(I think Lewisham Cyclists first raised the issue) so I went and had a look - and it's one of those messed up junctions where might is right. They did get a response - and almost an apology - from TfL though:

Thank you for your recent e-mail dated 9 June. As you have also written to Len Duvall AM, I am copying this response to his office.

In our previous response to your e-mail dated 16 April 2010, we acknowledged your concern that cyclists emerging from Deal's Gateway are experiencing occasional difficulty. We stated in this response that we are developing a proposal to relocate the position of the stopline in Deal's Gateway - this is by approximately 14 metres towards the junction with the Advanced Cycle Stopline retained. I would like to assure you that we will aim to deliver this before the autumn. This will require relocation of signal poles and additional ducting under the footway. This will increase visibility of users in Deal's Gateway. Our proposed design includes carriageway markings in the junction to raise awareness of traffic in Greenwich High Road that they are turning right. We envisage this will reduce the instance of right turners from Greenwich High Road not giving way to ahead traffic and cyclists from Deal's Gateway.

We have considered changes to signal timings but we found this to be detrimental to overall junction capacity. As such, no changes to signal timings are proposed.

We consider that the signs installed to inform traffic that signal timings have changed are sited in appropriate locations, and the sign dimensions meet standards.

I am sorry to learn that motorists from Greenwich High Road making the right turn into Deptford Bridge have either ignored you, or have displayed aggressive behaviour. This is inappropriate and suggests that a proportion of motorists are not driving with due care and attention to cyclists. We envisage that motorists' behaviour will change over time to the new layout.



Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused and I do hope the above has helped in answering your questions. Should you require assistance with any further issues, please feel free to contact us again.



Yours sincerely



Sara Reynaga

Customer Service Advisor - London Streets

Transport for London
Surface Transport Customer Services

Interesting but clearly the new lights phasing has made motorists feel they have the right to just blast across in front of cyclists as they turn right and feel they are vindicated in doing so. I think I'll return to RLJ-ing until they sort it out. It's the safer option, don't want to get taken out by an idiot turning right. Once is enough!

Headhuunter

I've made a complaint to TfL. Hopefully they'll sort it out. This is without doubt the most dangerous junction I've experienced in London. Traffic simply feels it has right of way to almost mow you down and drivers swear at you and blast their horns!

deptfordmarmoset

I really detest it when the pressure to accommodate too much traffic leads to considerations like ''overall junction capacity'' which in turn mean that it becomes more dangerous to cycle. Which in turn means that the only safe way to travel is by motorised transport. Which in turn....etc

In such cases I think individual decisions about RLJ have got to be justifiable - the road layout does not cater for cyclists' safety and the cyclist has a responsibility for his or her own safety. So I think it's a question of doing what's safest not what's legal.

That said, you could cycle under the station (it used to be legal as part of the NCR21 route), cross on the toucan crossing on Deptford Broadway and then launch yourself onto the A2 from there for the short stretch to Greenwich High Road.

Headhuunter

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

I really detest it when the pressure to accommodate too much traffic leads to considerations like ''overall junction capacity'' which in turn mean that it becomes more dangerous to cycle. Which in turn means that the only safe way to travel is by motorised transport. Which in turn....etc

In such cases I think individual decisions about RLJ have got to be justifiable - the road layout does not cater for cyclists' safety and the cyclist has a responsibility for his or her own safety. So I think it's a question of doing what's safest not what's legal.

That said, you could cycle under the station (it used to be legal as part of the NCR21 route), cross on the toucan crossing on Deptford Broadway and then launch yourself onto the A2 from there for the short stretch to Greenwich High Road.

As I mentioned, the junction used to have 3-way lights, so if you were emerging from Deals Gateway you had your own phase which made it very safe. Tis new phasing makes it dangerous for anyone emerging from Deals Gateway, I think even in a car you'd be exposed to people turning right in front of you as the stop line and traffic light are so far back from the junction. It essentially makes the cycle track under the DLR tracks from Brookmill Rd to Deals Gateway useless if you are going straight on, which must be most cyclists.

On the subject of that stretch of cycle lane, have you noticed that the sections of yellow concrete which span the cycle lane, usually at bends, are incredible slippery? Not sure if it's because I'm on a road bike with 120psi in my Vittoria Rubino tyres, but in the dry I have slipped sideways, in the wet they are positively dangerous, you have to keep a careful straight line across the yellow bits, which is hard because they are on bends in eth track. I have no idea what purpose they are supposed to actually serve...

deptfordmarmoset

On the subject of that stretch of cycle lane, have you noticed that the sections of yellow concrete which span the cycle lane, usually at bends, are incredible slippery? Not sure if it's because I'm on a road bike with 120psi in my Vittoria Rubino tyres, but in the dry I have slipped sideways, in the wet they are positively dangerous, you have to keep a careful straight line across the yellow bits, which is hard because they are on bends in eth track. I have no idea what purpose they are supposed to actually serve...

Yep, I've also nearly come off there but that was when there was a lot of autumn leaf mulch on the path - there are parallel grooves that can be treacherous. It's a convention I think that the layout for cyclists is along the line of the corrugation while for pedestrians they are cross-mounted. Where you can, it's safer to take the quick judder of the pedestrian section than the ''tramlines.'' I've no idea who dreamt that convention up though, it certainly wasn't a cyclist on a road bike.

Yup, they've changed it to two-phase lights to optimise ''junction capacity.'' I.e., they've put capacity over considerations of safety. Still, it's a fitting reminder that you're about to enter Greenwich, which has the shoddiest cycling provision of all the local boroughs.

Headhuunter

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

On the subject of that stretch of cycle lane, have you noticed that the sections of yellow concrete which span the cycle lane, usually at bends, are incredible slippery? Not sure if it's because I'm on a road bike with 120psi in my Vittoria Rubino tyres, but in the dry I have slipped sideways, in the wet they are positively dangerous, you have to keep a careful straight line across the yellow bits, which is hard because they are on bends in eth track. I have no idea what purpose they are supposed to actually serve...

Yep, I've also nearly come off there but that was when there was a lot of autumn leaf mulch on the path - there are parallel grooves that can be treacherous. It's a convention I think that the layout for cyclists is along the line of the corrugation while for pedestrians they are cross-mounted. Where you can, it's safer to take the quick judder of the pedestrian section than the ''tramlines.'' I've no idea who dreamt that convention up though, it certainly wasn't a cyclist on a road bike.

Yup, they've changed it to two-phase lights to optimise ''junction capacity.'' I.e., they've put capacity over considerations of safety. Still, it's a fitting reminder that you're about to enter Greenwich, which has the shoddiest cycling provision of all the local boroughs.

Sounds like typical Boris/Kulveer Ranger (or whatever his name is) transport policy. They're also in the process of removing several pedestrian crossings on Lewisham Way which is a very busy main road, to maximise car flow. Boris, the "cycling" mayor once again standing up for the motorist.... When do we get the chance to get rid of him again?

rolf_f

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

HH, this junction came up on the Greenwich Cyclists Group a short while ago(I think Lewisham Cyclists first raised the issue) so I went and had a look - and it's one of those messed up junctions where might is right. They did get a response - and almost an apology - from TfL though:

Might be worth a reply along the lines of "Thank you for your explanation; I do understand the logic of it. However, please note that you have stated that traffic flow is being given priority over safety. Should there be an accident caused by this sequencing, your explanation will be regarded as an acceptance of TfLs blame for the accident. It might be worth checking with the director of TfL if this is indeed TfLs policy as I am sure he would not wish to lose his job over this issue" etc etc.

Basically, at our work H&S is the one thing you don't mess around with. There is nothing else that can get you as easily sacked as H&S failures. All very well hoping that drivers behaviour will change with time but even if it does, what happens if the accident occurs before then. TBH, I'm surprised they admitted in print that they are placing traffic flow above H&S!

emotionless_softcore

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

On the subject of that stretch of cycle lane, have you noticed that the sections of yellow concrete which span the cycle lane, usually at bends, are incredible slippery? Not sure if it's because I'm on a road bike with 120psi in my Vittoria Rubino tyres, but in the dry I have slipped sideways, in the wet they are positively dangerous, you have to keep a careful straight line across the yellow bits, which is hard because they are on bends in eth track. I have no idea what purpose they are supposed to actually serve...

Yep, I've also nearly come off there but that was when there was a lot of autumn leaf mulch on the path - there are parallel grooves that can be treacherous. It's a convention I think that the layout for cyclists is along the line of the corrugation while for pedestrians they are cross-mounted. Where you can, it's safer to take the quick judder of the pedestrian section than the ''tramlines.'' I've no idea who dreamt that convention up though, it certainly wasn't a cyclist on a road bike.

Puts me in mind of this.

Cycle Facility of the Month : October 2009

An alternative to the Cyclists Dismount Sign

Government guidance on cycle infrastructure design LTN 2/08 discourages the use of the CYCLISTS DISMOUNT sign, stating: "If it looks like the sign might be needed, practitioners should first check to see whether the scheme design could not first be modified to make its use unnecessary."

The practitioners of Coventry thought long and hard before modifying the design of this scheme at the junction of Brindle Avenue and Second Avenue. The standard tramline surface normally used to indicate the start of a segregated cycle path has been replaced by corduroy paving, which acts as a rut and tends to grab bicycle wheels. A second set of tiles arranged at a slight angle causes the front and rear wheels to head in different directions, thus ensuring that any cyclists attempting to ride along the path will be dismounted without the need for any signs.

Coriander

I use that junction a lot to go to an evening class and see friends in Greenwich. You're right - they recently rephased the traffic lights after they resurfaced the roads. I rang TfL about 2 months ago to tell them that the junction was now lethal for cyclists coming from Deal's Gateway travelling across the junction on to Greenwich High Road or turning right going up to Blackheath as there simply isn't time for a cyclist to get on to the junction before all the cars start turning right and then the lights change. I did say that cyclists should be a consideration at this junction as two cycle paths tip you out on to the road at that precise junction.

They said they'd send someone down to have a look at it, but I noticed the other day when I was nearly killed there (which is the norm with the new set-up) that nothing has been done.

I suggest that any cyclist who uses this junction (from Deal's Gateway junction on to the A2 and Greenwich High Road) contacts TfL and they may actually do something. The woman I spoke to was quite concerned to hear what it was now like for cyclists, so i don't know why nothing has changed. I will ring again. The number to call is (I think, it seemed more obvious and easier to find last time) 0845 305 1234.

Edit to say: figured I'd post and then read the thread. :roll: But HH and DM - you're both right - it is a terrifying junction and no, motorists' behaviour is not changing to accommodate cyclists - why should it, we are kept so far back by the junction line that they have probably not even registered we are there by the time they've started turning and once the lead car as gone, the others are going to follow suit. I really don't understand why they can't put it back to a three phase set of lights.

cougie

Headhuunter wrote:

[

On the subject of that stretch of cycle lane, have you noticed that the sections of yellow concrete which span the cycle lane, usually at bends, are incredible slippery? Not sure if it's because I'm on a road bike with 120psi in my Vittoria Rubino tyres, but in the dry I have slipped sideways, in the wet they are positively dangerous, you have to keep a careful straight line across the yellow bits, which is hard because they are on bends in eth track. I have no idea what purpose they are supposed to actually serve...

I'd think 120 psi is too high. Try lowering them by 10 PSI or so ? I run at less than 100 PSI and i'm 81 kilos ?

Headhuunter

cougie wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

[

On the subject of that stretch of cycle lane, have you noticed that the sections of yellow concrete which span the cycle lane, usually at bends, are incredible slippery? Not sure if it's because I'm on a road bike with 120psi in my Vittoria Rubino tyres, but in the dry I have slipped sideways, in the wet they are positively dangerous, you have to keep a careful straight line across the yellow bits, which is hard because they are on bends in eth track. I have no idea what purpose they are supposed to actually serve...

I'd think 120 psi is too high. Try lowering them by 10 PSI or so ? I run at less than 100 PSI and i'm 81 kilos ?

Not too open the "PSI File" (which is perpetually being debated on Cake Stop or other threads of "Road") but how high is too high? I've read that over 120psi, pressure becomes counter productive as instead of your tyres absorbing small imperfections in the road surface (I'm not talking about enormous potholes) you effectively bounce up and down which actually slows you down. However much less than 100psi you are more likely to get punctures and snake bites. Between those 2 it's down to personal preference. Certainly no one in my club would dream of riding with much less than 110psi. I like to feel the road under my wheels, rather than feel like I'm riding on a big squidgy sofa! I'm about 78-80kg (seems to vary between those points).

deptfordmarmoset

Coriander wrote:

I suggest that any cyclist who uses this junction (from Deal's Gateway junction on to the A2 and Greenwich High Road) contacts TfL and they may actually do something. The woman I spoke to was quite concerned to hear what it was now like for cyclists, so i don't know why nothing has changed. I will ring again. The number to call is (I think, it seemed more obvious and easier to find last time) 0845 305 1234 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting.

....


Edit to say: figured I'd post and then read the thread. :roll: But HH and DM - you're both right - it is a terrifying junction and no, motorists' behaviour is not changing to accommodate cyclists - why should it, we are kept so far back by the junction line that they have probably not even registered we are there by the time they've started turning and once the lead car as gone, the others are going to follow suit. I really don't understand why they can't put it back to a three phase set of lights.

Thanks for the number Coriander. The reason why it's now two-phase appears to be contained in the TfL quote:

We have considered changes to signal timings but we found this to be detrimental to overall junction capacity. As such, no changes to signal timings are proposed.

As Rolf F's reading of this confirmed, it's tantamount to an admission that just getting traffic out of the way takes precedence over safety.

EDIT: the formatting of the phone number has for some reason gone completely bonkers!

Headhuunter

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Coriander wrote:

I suggest that any cyclist who uses this junction (from Deal's Gateway junction on to the A2 and Greenwich High Road) contacts TfL and they may actually do something. The woman I spoke to was quite concerned to hear what it was now like for cyclists, so i don't know why nothing has changed. I will ring again. The number to call is (I think, it seemed more obvious and easier to find last time) 0845 305 1234 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              0845 305 1234      end_of_the_skype_highlighting.

....


Edit to say: figured I'd post and then read the thread. :roll: But HH and DM - you're both right - it is a terrifying junction and no, motorists' behaviour is not changing to accommodate cyclists - why should it, we are kept so far back by the junction line that they have probably not even registered we are there by the time they've started turning and once the lead car as gone, the others are going to follow suit. I really don't understand why they can't put it back to a three phase set of lights.

Thanks for the number Coriander. The reason why it's now two-phase appears to be contained in the TfL quote:

We have considered changes to signal timings but we found this to be detrimental to overall junction capacity. As such, no changes to signal timings are proposed.

As Rolf F's reading of this confirmed, it's tantamount to an admission that just getting traffic out of the way takes precedence over safety.

It's all part of Boris's re-emphasis of the motor vehicle in London. Since coming to power he has cancelled the next phase of the LEZ, cancelled the western extension of the congestion charge zone etc etc and as I mentioned before is currently going through a process of removing pedestrian crossings which are deemed unnecessary and which slow motor vehicles down. For example crossing on Lewisham Way, which is a very busy road with homes and colleges nearby. He's also rephasing a lot of lights to help traffic flow at the expense of safety it seems. All this at a time when London's air quality is at record lows and when the EU has recently fined the UK for exceeding EU safe limits on pollutants. Bring back Ken... He had his faults but Bozo doesn't have a clue.

deptfordmarmoset

Bump....

HH, did you get any reply from TfL? I sent an email to the Deal's Gateway residents' association to see whether they had raised their concerns but got no reply.

Local blogger, Deptford Dame, posted about this junction yesterday: http://deptforddame.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... lists.html

Headhuunter

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Bump....

HH, did you get any reply from TfL? I sent an email to the Deal's Gateway residents' association to see whether they had raised their concerns but got no reply.

Local blogger, Deptford Dame, posted about this junction yesterday: http://deptforddame.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... lists.html

No response from TfL, got a response from Jenny Jones on the London Assembly...

"it sounds very dangerous.

i'm presuming this is a TfL road, in which case myself or darren johnson (who is a cllr in lewisham) will ask a formal question of the mayor.
(if it's a council road, we can follow through with the council).

best wishes
jenny

Jenny Jones AM
Green Party Group
London Assembly "


Yeah I was talkuing to Deptford Dame about it on the Brocklely Central website, she said she was going to post. I'll have to read what she says...

deptfordmarmoset

Thanks HH, I almost missed your reply.

I wonder whether it might be possible to somehow persuade a couple of those police/CSW on bikes to come out meet me there to see what they think of it. Don't know whether it's possible to talk them into that kind of thing though. I walked past there last week and watched the same thing happening to a white van, then on a later phase saw it happen to a people carrier. While leaving I looked back and saw a cyclist stranded and gesticulating at traffic in the middle of the London-bound carriageway of the A2. And I got that gut-wrenching dread-and-adrenalin feeling that makes me go weak at the knees.

It's not just cyclists that are endangered but it's clearly cyclists who are in the most direct danger of physical injury. If they can't see a Transit-type van coming, they aren't going to see a cyclist.

Headhuunter

Yeah would be good if the police or someone could come out and look at the junction. The phasing of the lights was clearly changed by some TfL office jockey who had never actually seen the junction and just switched it on a whim to improve traffic flow, AKA make it easier for car drivers to move faster.

I went theough the junction again on Sat for the 1st time since I was almost killed, I got there just as the lights were changing to green out of Deals Gateway and managed to "shadow" a couple of cars across the junction so it wasn't a problem. I think in future I will just move right to the front of the junction, over the thick white line and start moving when I see the cars on the other side start across and hopefully make it across before the start turning...

deptfordmarmoset

Not news, but another blog post about this junction.

http://deptfordmarmoset.blogspot.com/20 ... ssage.html

Coriander

Hi,

London Streets (or whoever it is that deals with this) has just rung me back about the call I logged with them expressing my concern with this junction. Unfortunately, I missed the call, but htey did leave me a voicemail.

First of all I got the guff about how they found that the original phasing held up the traffic too much so they would not consider changing the new phasing.

However, they have looked at the junction and accepted my (and other people's) points so will be doing a couple of things:

The stop line on Deal's Gateway will be brought forward by 14 metres which will make vehicles coming from there more visible on the other side of the junction and should mean that traffic from there and Greenwich High Road reach the centre of the junction at the same time;

There will be markings or signage to highlight to those turning right out of Greenwich High Road that they do not have priority.

However, there is no timeframe within which this work will be done.

I am prepared to see if these suggested changes make the junction safer for cyclists coming from Deal's Gateway. However, if the work is not done within a couple of months, I will ring again to prompt them.

keyser__soze

Holy thread bump Batman, but after four years and countless 'tweaks' it's still fscking awful, closer than ever to getting taken out there this morning and I'm super-aware of how dangerous it is already. Had I been approaching the junction without previous experience I fear I'd have been under the wheels of a car. There's no markings/signage reiterating that cars turning right have to give way, indeed the cross-hatching makes it almost look like they've got priority. Stupid junction, dangerous 'improvements'

keyser__soze

Another bump, looks like the council are finally going to reinstate the dedicated green phase for traffic travelling northboud from Deals Gateway. About time, even though it inevitably means always hitting a red light there and hoping the traffic light sensors pick up a bike...

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/street ... nsult_view