Jon Snow "Camerooned"
Comments
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One could just as easily claim that thinly spread resources are best utilised where a problem can be shown to exist, and that putting cameras where there is no known problem is both wasteful of that resource, and liable to be seen as a means of pulling in the dosh.TailWindHome wrote:mybreakfastconsisted wrote:ACPO guidelines mean cameras can only be sited where there have been accidents, injuries and deaths.
That's stupid
Seems to me that some cyclists exist in a bubble, or in London. Come to sticksville and see what it's like here. M40 / A34 and follow the road to Finmere.0 -
CiB wrote:actually cause frustration and impatience in some drivers
Who frankly are probably frustrated and impatient anyways, regardless of the speed limit.
These would appear to be the types that hang off your rear bumper, overtake in silly places, and generally drive stupid anyway.0 -
Cameras aren't sited where there is no known problem.
Residents clamouring for a camera are told "Sorry, nobody's died yet".0 -
CiB wrote:On a long straight road with no junctions, 50 is a silly limit.
Drivers need to adjust their attitude! It seems to me that so many drivers, in default mode, rush as fast as they can to every destination. Any impediment to this (including legal ones, or safety ones, such as giving cyclists room) are somehow unfair.
Calm down, learn to drive properly and safely, not as if your life depends on getting everywhere as fast as possible - your life and that of others depends on you not doing this. If you get frustrated by going slower than 60mph then I suggest you are not suited to holding a driving licence.0 -
Welcome to your one-size-fits-all world.mybreakfastconsisted wrote:If drivers are frustrated or impatient because of cameras then they're crap drivers.
What's 'crap' in my driving abilities, about a slight sense of frustration at being unable to set off for work until after the school doors open at 8:30 and I can leave boy Jr there, knowing that I can still actually get to work on time legally if all goes well but being unable to do so ever due to these people who believe that 50 actually = 43 and that take an age to build up to that speed, then scrub it all off at the first gentle curve in the road? I'm lucky - my boss is great in that respect so I just plod along, frustrated but in line. Others may have tighter deadlines, may be on the way to the hospital for some reason, may have any reason on the planet for being elsewhere sooner rather than later, but in your world, succumbing to that fruustration and executing a prefectly safe in anywhere but Oxfordshire overtaking manouevre makes that driver 'crap'?
Life's so simple where you only have to think in black & white, I expect.0 -
To take this 6.5 mile stretch in Oxfordshire as an example, if you travel at 50mph, it will take you 7'48" to complete the stretch, but if you travelled at 60mph (the speed you would be limited to if the 50mph limit hadn't been imposed, I believe), the same journey would take 6'30". Now, I know 'time is money' and all that, but I hope you weren't wasting that 1'18" before they imposed the limit.
If someone is driving a little slower than the speed limit, but not slow enough that you can safely pass without exceeding the limit, then just drive a bit slower. It's not as though it's going to actually make any significant difference to your overall journey time.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Cameras, speed bumps, over-cautious limits on rural roads are all there because some people have been idiots. If idiots didn't speed round in the fog or hammer it through residential roads there would be no need for such things.
Protesting against speed cameras is stupid though. You are protesting against enforcement of a law. Protesting against the law makes sense but saying "we don't mind the law but we don't want it enforced" is daft.
If someone can think of a practical way of improving road safety without universal speed limits etc. then great. In the meantime, slowing cars down does reduce the number and severity of accidents.
See the Daily Mash story "A**eholes who think they're good at driving celebrate speed camera victory" for more comment.
(And yes, I do have 3 points on my driving license, but don't resent it)0 -
You have chosen to organise you life (family, school location, work location) such as you have. What goes with that are certain limitations, such as the logistics of getting from home to school and work within a certain timescale. You don't seem to want to accept these restrictions, so maybe rearrange your lifestyle in some way.CiB wrote:
Welcome to your one-size-fits-all world.mybreakfastconsisted wrote:If drivers are frustrated or impatient because of cameras then they're crap drivers.
What's 'crap' in my driving abilities, about a slight sense of frustration at being unable to set off for work until after the school doors open at 8:30 and I can leave boy Jr there, knowing that I can still actually get to work on time legally if all goes well but being unable to do so ever due to these people who believe that 50 actually = 43 and that take an age to build up to that speed, then scrub it all off at the first gentle curve in the road? I'm lucky - my boss is great in that respect so I just plod along, frustrated but in line. Others may have tighter deadlines, may be on the way to the hospital for some reason, may have any reason on the planet for being elsewhere sooner rather than later, but in your world, succumbing to that fruustration and executing a prefectly safe in anywhere but Oxfordshire overtaking manouevre makes that driver 'crap'?
Life's so simple where you only have to think in black & white, I expect.
BTW, 50 is a speed limit, so maximum speed, not a minimum. 43mph is fine in my book, I save a significant amount of fuel and reduce the environmental impact.
Have you thought about flexible working? It is your legal right to request this.0 -
I use my bike commute as thinking time. I don't want to be constantly annoyed by other road users so I don't let them annoy me. No matter how arse-witted they may be.0
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I completely understand your frustration CiB. I was taught that if conditions were such that it was safe to drive at the speed limit you should. I would have failed my test if I hadn't.
Yet I am constantly stuck behind people pottering along at 40mph on 60 limit roads :evil:0 -
The Highway code says:suzyb wrote:I completely understand your frustration CiB. I was taught that if conditions were such that it was safe to drive at the speed limit you should. I would have failed my test if I hadn't.
Yet I am constantly stuck behind people pottering along at 40mph on 60 limit roads :evil:
It doesn't say anywhere that you should drive at the limit if it is safe. I think your teacher was misguided!Speed limits
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You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table above). The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
[Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6]
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The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions is dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when
the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is more difficult to see other road users
Also Cib shouldn't really take it out on others because of his lifestyle choices.0 -
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alfablue wrote:
The Highway code says:suzyb wrote:I completely understand your frustration CiB. I was taught that if conditions were such that it was safe to drive at the speed limit you should. I would have failed my test if I hadn't.
Yet I am constantly stuck behind people pottering along at 40mph on 60 limit roads :evil:
It doesn't say anywhere that you should drive at the limit if it is safe. I think your teacher was misguided!Speed limits
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You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table above). The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
[Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6]
125
The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions is dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when
the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is more difficult to see other road users
Also Cib shouldn't really take it out on others because of his lifestyle choices.
I'd agree with you, except that I have heard from various people when they learnt to drive that they would have failed their test for driving substantially lower than the speed limit. I would imagine this is based on consideration for other drivers - similar to not pulling out if it would force someone to slow down, but it seems to have been corrupted from 'you shouldn't hold people up unnecessarily' to 'you should drive at the speed limit'.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It wasn't the teacher, it was the test. Drive too slowly for to long a period of time when the conditions don't dictate you should and you fail.alfablue wrote:
The Highway code says:suzyb wrote:I completely understand your frustration CiB. I was taught that if conditions were such that it was safe to drive at the speed limit you should. I would have failed my test if I hadn't.
Yet I am constantly stuck behind people pottering along at 40mph on 60 limit roads :evil:
It doesn't say anywhere that you should drive at the limit if it is safe. I think your teacher was misguided!Speed limits
124
You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table above). The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
[Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6]
125
The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions is dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when
the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is more difficult to see other road users
.
As rjsterry said, the test was changed sometime around 1998 I think to take into account the increase in traffic. So you are no longer taught to wait for a clear road before turning across the lane of traffic, or taught you can go at whatever speed you want below the max.
As your quote points out however, it is respective of the conditions. So battering along at 60mph in a thunderstorm will fail you just like pottering along at 40mph on a bright, dry, windless day.0 -
Yes, you need to make adequate progress (I think is the term), but most of your driving test would be in 30mph zones, doing 43 in a 50 (as cited by Cib) is not too slow, 23 in a 30 may be (if conditions are perfect).
Many commercial vehicles are limited to 56mph, yet they use motorways, presumably 56 is therefore not too slow in a 70 limit.0 -
prj45 wrote:suzyb wrote:Yet I am constantly stuck behind people pottering along at 40mph on 60 limit roads :evil:
And the bizzare thing is that when you reach a stretch of 30mph road, the bumble along at 40 still...
Yep, one of my biggest bugbears!
Sitting behind slow drivers is frustrating, but I'll sit behind them unless I've got loads of time to overtake. It's the drivers who seem to have no spatial awareness and so slam on the brakes anytime a car comes in the opposite direction and/or the ones who do 40 through a 60...40 through a 50...40 through a 30...40 through a 20 and then back to doing 40 through a 60 that bug me. It's not that they're being cautious, they're just being lazy, inattentive pr1cks!
Also, I want to put a 50ft tall neon sign saying "INDICATE YOU MONG" at every single junction in the country
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This tells me your knowledge of the UK driving test is severely out of date. All current driving tests will include significant stretches of National speed limit roads.alfablue wrote:Yes, you need to make adequate progress (I think is the term), but most of your driving test would be in 30mph zones, doing 43 in a 50 (as cited by Cib) is not too slow, 23 in a 30 may be (if conditions are perfect).
Mike0 -
Fine, point still stands, doing 43 in a 50 is not too slow.mudcovered wrote:
This tells me your knowledge of the UK driving test is severely out of date. All current driving tests will include significant stretches of National speed limit roads.alfablue wrote:Yes, you need to make adequate progress (I think is the term), but most of your driving test would be in 30mph zones, doing 43 in a 50 (as cited by Cib) is not too slow, 23 in a 30 may be (if conditions are perfect).
Mike0 -
BTW, how long does the current test last, i.e. actually under way in the car?0
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alfablue wrote:BTW, how long does the current test last, i.e. actually under way in the car?
35-40 minutes? Something like that.
I think 43mph on a straight, clear, well lit etc 50mph road would probably be too slow. From a tester's point of view at least.
I did my test 5 years ago, my brother 3 years ago and my sister a few months ago. And the idea was the same for all three of us. A "business-like" drive, getting up to the speed limit, or as close as conditions safely allow, quickly and keeping it there.
Having said that, I had a friend who learnt with a different instructor and never went over 40mph in his lessons or on his test. :shock: Really bad form by the instructor IMO.0 -
Just a couple of points. Thanks SuzyB & others for including the observation about 'failure to make adequate progress'. A pal of mine did fail his test - albeit back in 1978 - for this very reason, so it is or at least was recognised as factor in not being allowed to drive on the roads.
This bit about 'lifestyle choices'? Sadly I'm not some media ponce who can flit from job to job as the urge & self-importance takes me. There are jobs, & jobs. Actually this one is the best yet in most respects so the chances of me chucking it in for the sake of a few minutes lateness are below zero. When I started, it was 1 day per week that I did the school run. Since then m'good wife's hours as a teacher have evolved - she's good at what she does too - so 'my lifestyle choice' is actually more to do with how her LEA decide to make best use of a good teacher, not how long it takes me to get to work. Flexible work? I do - my boss is great re family stuff so I come and go as it suits therefore I don't overtake to get here 14 seocnds quicker, even though I do get a bit frustrated at the abysmal driving exhibited by some road users. I let it go though. Working at home doesn't suit some jobs; it certainly doesn't fit with mine here.
Anyway. Littlejohn? Ar$e or what?0 -
bails87 wrote:I think 43mph on a straight, clear, well lit etc 50mph road would probably be too slow. From a tester's point of view at least.
Most testers I know would be very pleased with 43mph.0 -
good to hearFlexible work? I do - my boss is great re family stuff so I come and go as it suits therefore I don't overtake to get here 14 seocnds quicker,
me too, but the frustration is usually due to speeding, not looking, not using indicators, tailgating, using phones, doing make-up, rather than going at 40+ in 50 limits. In the scheme of things the things that frustrate me are more likely to be associated with accidents and injuries than the latter. A driver doing 43 in a 50 that is observant, careful, uses signals and is properly in control would be a breath of fresh air in contrast to what seems like a majority of dangerous drivers.even though I do get a bit frustrated at the abysmal driving exhibited by some road users.0 -
Just for the record, over-slow driving is not limited to 50/60mph country roads, I do find myself yelling 'Come ON!' at quite a number of can't-find-first numpties in central London. Also re. the always-drive-at-40 brigade, this is a recognised problem I believe. Both my parents got caught breaking a 30mph limit by less than 10mph recently (incidentally, the road in question is notorious for boy racers thinking they can do 60+ then meeting a lorry overtaking from the opposite direction - flowers are a common sight). They were given the choice of points or attending a course, which they did. They now have the zeal of the converted, which is great, but I thought it was interesting that there are enough people driving 'a bit' over the limit, who 'don't realise they are doing it' to make it worthwhile setting up a re-education course for them.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I have seen this phenomenon - I have to remind my g/f as she drives from a 40 to a 30 to take some speed off :oops:
She still loves me though
And she is getting better!0 -
I don't know if this is urban myth or not, but I was once told when I was thinking about doing my motorbike test that when you got taken out on a stretch of 70mph road (guess it'd have to be dual carriageway) that you should gun it up to about 80 just to show you weren't scared of the speed.
Could be rubbish obv, just thought I'd share :oops:http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
Hilarious 0
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mroli wrote:I don't know if this is urban myth or not, but I was once told when I was thinking about doing my motorbike test that when you got taken out on a stretch of 70mph road (guess it'd have to be dual carriageway) that you should gun it up to about 80 just to show you weren't scared of the speed.
Could be rubbish obv, just thought I'd share :oops:
And pulling off from lights where there is no traffic with a wheelie and finishing the test by pulling up with a neat stoppie with a turn to park the bike at 45 degrees to the curb.
These will show you are in full control (assuming you can do them properly) and aren't scared of either the bike or the examiner.0
