Just spend £600 for bike and speedo now need decent lock

gareth82

Hello, today I bought a Boardman sport and a speedo coming to near £600 so now I need a decent bike lock to secure my new bike which I collect this Sunday.

Previous I have been using a £5 lock from Tesco's for my recently sold Sacaren dirt trax.

I dont really want to spend more than £40 unless it makes all the difference.

I was thinking of the below any recommendations or advice

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165637

Many thanks

cooldad

This

cooldad

If you are going to insure it, check with insurers first as they often have a minimum security level.

gareth82

No I wont be insuring it

gareth82

Sorted

Northwind

Cable locks are almost always a bad option, they're easily portable and fit round all sorts of things, but give pretty poor security. A quality d-lock's almost always going to be better- still easily portable, and far stronger. But, not quite as easy to lock a bike with, won't go round lampposts frinstance.

If it's a permanent home lock then there's no competition for a massive chain and quality padlock, but for most of those you'll pay a lot more than this. There is IMO no chain and padlock available at this price that is worth owning- they're all boltcroppable, which means that it's easier for the thief to remove the chain with a set of croppers than it is for you to remove the chain with the key!

BigShot

D-Lock.
Kryptonite. (Who call them U-Locks, but what do they know?)

[/thread]




OK, maybe not "[/thread]" but really, you're not going to find better than a kryptonite lock, and if your bike is robbed because they were able to get through the lock, they'll replace it.
Just make sure to get the theft protection set up as soon as you buy the lock. Don't put it off AT ALL as it must be done in 14 days to be valid. You know as well as I do that if you put it off a bit, you'll forget until day 15 and be screwed. I certainly would!

There's not a lock in the world that will stop a determined thief (or stop them kicking your wheels in and coming back with a tool kit at night and stripping every non-locked bit off your bike) but if you're going to get a lock for a decent bike, it might as well be the best and come with a built-in theft insurance policy.

Spending hundreds on a bike and then scrimping on the lock is (in my completely non-humble opinion) an utterly bone-headed "saving" to make.

Northwind

BigShot wrote:

OK, maybe not "[/thread]" but really, you're not going to find better than a kryptonite lock, and if your bike is robbed because they were able to get through the lock, they'll replace it.

Mmm. They seriously blotted their record with the round key thing... Even after the weakness of the locks was going public they were still rejecting claims under the anti-theft scheme if the lock hadn't been cut- "Must not have been locked right". They were also pretty slow to pull their stock and to replace the affected locks, almost as bad as Oxford. The higher end ones are very good locks though. Not very impressed by their chains.

BigShot

Northwind... it's a bit corporate, but http://www.intuitive.com/blog/debunking ... phere.html might make for a bit of balance and interesting reading.

While the "prior knowledge" issue is one for debate... I've heard that the technique was knownas early as 2002 but as for whether Kryptonite knew, the nearest I've seen to that is "they must have known", which is guff if not backed up.
Either way the fact is that not all round key locks are or were affected by the bic pen vulnerability.

Personally I still trust Kryptonite even if I accept that all the worst stories are true as the round key issue aside they made/make the best locks for a reasonable price and weight. They no longer use round keys and the insurance aspect is well worth it (unless the thief runs off with your broken lock, of course). If you don't want to buy actual insurance, it's as good as you'll find.

Northwind

They claim to have not known there was a problem even after other companies were pulling locks off the shelves, and even though they were getting customers reporting that their locks were opened without keys. It's nothing to do with blogging really, it kind of predates the "blogosphere". The weakness of those locks was known in the industry too, which isn't to say that they knew about it- just that they should have. I had a chat with one of our safe-breakers at the time and he'd been involved with removing the things from low-security uses years before.

They make a big deal out of offering the lock replacement scheme, they keep a bit quiet on the subject of product recalls... Wonder why that is

Still, I'd use one of their locks today no bother, they're very good and stand up well to independant testing, I just wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them. Nor any other lock manufacturer for that matter!

BigShot

I'm not exactly clued on the whole security/lock industry (it bores me, to be honest). I only know anything about the Kryptonite and round key issue as I had one and did a bit of homework recently.

Since I don't subscribe to the "seriously ugly, rubbish bike" school of security I have to go to the next best thing... making my bike a less easy target than the other ones in the rack. That means using a recognisable "really good" lock.

I think your last paragraph sums it up perfectly.
Knowing that the best lock in the world won't stop a thief kicking your wheels in to make the bike unridable and then coming back at night to strip every unsecured part off the bike keeps me paranoid even with my Kryptonite lock.

There's no flawless lock, they can all be beaten, the good ones just say "nah mate, rob that one over there instead. It's only got a little cable lock on it, much less trouble".

I always liked the old joke about locks.

All bikes weight 50 lbs.
A 20lb bike needs a 30lb lock.
A 30lb bike needs a 20lb lock.
A 50lb bike doesn't need a lock.

Northwind

BigShot wrote:

There's no flawless lock, they can all be beaten, the good ones just say "nah mate, rob that one over there instead. It's only got a little cable lock on it, much less trouble".

Bingo... When my brother lost the key for his commuter, he went and asked the security guys if they had boltcutters. They didn't but they did have a pair of £1.99 pliars, which cut through his cable lock in about 2 seconds. You could probably have got through it with scissors. There's locks that you can't realistically cut without either a very noisy attack, or hydraulic cutters, or some very specialised and impractical manual cutters, and sure some pro thieves do have the right kit but most don't and even those that don't often don't bother.

BigShot

I remember hearing about someone beating D-Locks with a can of "freon" and a hammer.
I think the can was to super-chill the metal and the hammer to shatter it.

I believe that one was a chosen method for some of the major New York bike thieves.
Then again, I just read an anecdote about a test done (which sounds like it was done really badly) which showed the freon thing to be guff.

Someone broke into our shed using a candle and a hammer once. Not sure of the ins and outs (I was pretty young at the time) but though it wasn't a mega lock it seemed they'd held a candle under it (evidenced by was dripped all over the place) and given it a good hard crack with the hammer. Maybe they used a lever, but I seem to remember "hammer". I dunno.

Feckers robbed my bike whatever it was. Upsetting for a young kid.

Northwind

BigShot wrote:

I remember hearing about someone beating D-Locks with a can of "freon" and a hammer.
I think the can was to super-chill the metal and the hammer to shatter it.

I believe that one was a chosen method for some of the major New York bike thieves.
Then again, I just read an anecdote about a test done (which sounds like it was done really badly) which showed the freon thing to be guff.

Don't know about freon but you can shatter some cheap locks with a similiar approach, and the stuff is very easy to find (actually there's loads of ways of doing this but some of them are fairly likely to blow you up) But better locks tend to either be less brittle, or designed to break locked rather than unlocked. (the idea in this case here is usually to go after the lock barrel not the metal of the lock itself) So luckily it's not such a common weakness these days.

There's lots of good stuff on youtube if you search for "captain cropper" though he's linked to Almax locks so possibly not unbiased. Still, he did a lot to wake up motorcyclists to the total s**t we were being sold.

BigShot

I don't think I'd object too much to the damaged bike if a thief blew himself up. A fresh coat of paint or simply some new tyres (to replace the shrapnel-damaged ones) and ride the explosion-scarred bike with pride.

nick1962

gareth82

This post seems to have got sidetracked a little as they often do!
I know you've probably already considered the following but it's worth mentioning anyway. Check out the commuter's forum for security advice too.
A lock alone will not prevent your bike from being stolen.I'd keep the Tesco lock to secure one of your wheels and add a decent one with a chain loop for your frame and other wheel.
Where you lock it up is really important.I would never leave any of my bikes locked up in town. I even lock them together inside my flat!
If someone can see it and get access to it then they can take it.Can you take it into work and lock it against the stair rail or something so Joe Scrote can't get to it.Make sure the security guard/concierge/receptionist knows it's yours and ask them to keep an eye on it or leave a security camera watching it.Ask if it's covered by your company's insurance or if they can provide a secure storage room etc
Be extra careful when you pop out to the shops or on an errand. My advice keep it with you at al ltimes or don't take it. So many people get stung when they go somewhere out of the ordinary and are only away from it for five minutes.
That's enough doom and gloom enjoy your new bike!

BigShot

I dunno about the chain lock suggestion, nick.

To give any sort of useful protection they need to be far heavier than a cyclist is likely to want to carry. Most chains are trivial to cut with a cropper... and that includes many of the burly ones motorcyclists use. You'll need a pretty burly lock for the chain approach too... a heavy chain with a tiddler of a padlock is a waste of time.

All good points about keeping it where you can see it, of course.

The way I see it is, imagine your bike is a briefcase containing whatever amount of money you spent on it. If you wouldn't be happy securing the case like that, you should rethink your bike security. A less paranoid way of looking at it is whether the risk involved in a thief getting the bike outweighs what they can expect to sell it for, they aren't going to bother. So, a good lock meaning more time for them to steal it and so a bigger risk of being caught is a bigger deterrent than something quick to get off.

I don't find it too difficult to find somewhere to lock up with my D-lock, even though it's too narrow to fit around many posts (and even too narrow for the really fat bike rack at my local Sainsbury's) and I'd much sooner rely on that than on any chain I'd be willing to lug around. If you're getting one to leave in place at work, however... that's another story and probably time to look at motorbike chains.

Bikehawk

Remember a few years ago at the NEC bike show the guys in the stall next to my mates went around and bought bike chains off other stalls. They then left punters try to crop them and their own chain with bolt cutters. They other chains chopped easy but their's didn't unless you used hydraulic cutters like the fire service. It was to do with how the chains were treated ie hardened very brittle versus tempered. Not sure of the name but they very not as heavy feeling as some of the others.
Sorry if a bit vague, memory is not what it used to be.

BigShot

If it comes back to you, please let us know.

I don't expect many regular bike thieves carry hydraulic croppers around with them... though of course no amount of quality chain is going to help if a normal set of easily concealable croppers can snip through the lock without any great effort. :P

How about we start setting up stings to catch and then executing bike thieves? That would probably help more than any lock or chain.

Bikehawk

Aren't the cops already using stings to target bike thieves but then the poor misfortunes what with being from disadvantaged/broken homes will have the charges against them dropped. (preferably with them from 20,000ft in the air)

Saxon Dalle

Being a motorcyclist who has suffered the loss of a motorcycle to those dregs of humanity called thieves, I have since taken an interest in the retention of my property.
The quality chain being discussed earlier is made by Almax. http://www.almax-security-chains.co.uk/
I currently use the Immobiliser IV with their Squire padlock and Defiant ground anchor to fix a couple of superbikes to my garage floor. I do not think there is a better defensive option, though that little lot cost over £300. This chain and padlock is seriously heavy. I've just weighed it at over 13kg, too much for a rucksack I would suggest. I only use this lock at home, or away (Le Mans) if a mate takes it in his car for me. My lighter but still decent quality item is an Abus Granite with close shackle padlock. That weighs 4 kg. Still heavy, but ok strapped to the back of the m/c. For the mtb I use my Abus City Lock which I bought years ago as a portable m/c lock. That weighs over 2.5 kg but I can live with on my back for the few trips where I might leave the cycle unattended. Mostly I will avoid that if possible. It isn't unbreakable, but I still have it so it's a pretty good deterrent.
A couple of things to always remember when chaining the bike up is to lock it to something very solid. eg. not round anything it can be lifted off of, nor anything that is less secure than than the chain. The top or bottom bar of railings rather than the thinner vertical railings for example. Always look at what you are locking it to as if you want to steal your bike. Would you be able to cut it with a portable power tool?
Fortunately, I bought a longish chain for the m/c which will go through the frame and both wheels, though it's heavier than the shorter option which would require you to remove the front wheel to lock it up.
If you're thinking about security for the bike at home. Secure your garage or shed with good doors, clasps, padlocks etc. Think about extending your house alarm or use a stand alone infra red in your garage/shed. Use a ground anchor. Always lock it. Don't get complacent.
It's not easy spending serious money on security when you want to spend it on the bike, but it's even harder buying another bike when the last one was stolen.
Sorry that was a bit long and preachy but I don't know how to make this subject fun.
May I suggest that if you DO catch a bike thief, you have the hole pre dug. He's unlikely to have told anyone where he was going thieving so you're untracable

Northwind

Bikehawk wrote:

Remember a few years ago at the NEC bike show the guys in the stall next to my mates went around and bought bike chains off other stalls. They then left punters try to crop them and their own chain with bolt cutters.

That was Almax. A year on and what was the result? All the same "sold secure", croppable chains were still on sale for the same prices but some of the distributors leaned on the organisers of the show, and Almax were banned from attending. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you- the security industry! :evil:

Not the only ones btw, the 16mm and 19mm Pragmasis chains are just as good. In fact any old massive chain will be proof against most croppers just by being massive and too big to fit in the jaws, though they tend to be more vulnerable to other attacks.