Redundancy/redeployment question

Mr Smooth

A friend has been told that her department is being reduced from 3 to 2 people, and basically the job descriptions for the 2 remaining jobs are the existing roles for the 2 other people. She'd like to say 'up yours' and take the redundancy pay (stat min only!).

Question is: does she have to apply for one of these jobs, and not get it, in order to qualify for redundancy pay? If she claims the job is v different from her current role, does there have to be a certain %age difference between the current and new roles?

tbh she'd be better off out of there, but wants to make sure they can't get out of paying her redundancy pay.

Advice much appreciated.

Ben6899

She should be able to take voluntary redundancy rather than applying for a job in the new team structure.

Mr Smooth

Ben,

a) they haven't asked for anyone to take voluntary redundancy (VR) - they would rather try and get people to put themselves out of a job so they can avoid paying redundancy!

b) would taking VR affect entitlement to Jobseekers allowance? especially as they have to pay her 12 weeks notice, although she may only work 1 month?

alfablue

If they want her in the new job they can redeploy her, if they don't (can't) they have to pay redundancy if her job is made redundant.

Before compulsory redundancies are made, however, they have to try to redeploy elsewhere in the organisation, only when this is done, and then voluntary redundancy is offered and not taken up by anyone, can they move to compulsory redundancy., The payout for voluntary redundancy will be higher than the statutory minimum (as an incentive).

Personally, I would never apply for my own (or another) job because it suits the organisation, it is tantamount to accepting losing your job (or demotion). From personal experience in NHS, 5 managers were told there will be 3 jobs, they must apply for them. 4 of the managers applied, one refused. Two of the applicants were successful, plus the one that refused to play ball! Too difficult costly and contentious to get rid of her. The 2 unsuccessful ones were demoted, they walked into that one!

alfablue

As far as I recall, benefits are suspended for the duration of the pay-off (so 12 weeks pay = no allowance for 12 weeks). Also, making yourself voluntarily unemployed (not voluntary redundancy) also means benefits may be suspended.

Ben6899

Mr Smooth wrote:

Ben,

a) they haven't asked for anyone to take voluntary redundancy (VR) - they would rather try and get people to put themselves out of a job so they can avoid paying redundancy!

b) would taking VR affect entitlement to Jobseekers allowance? especially as they have to pay her 12 weeks notice, although she may only work 1 month?

a) She applies for VR by not applying for either of the jobs in the new team structure.

You need to remember that redundancy procedures are statutory and do not differ from business to business. We were "re-structured" last year and had to apply for a job in the new structure. One lad wanted to move to London to live with his boyfriend so took voluntary redundancy (noble of him really; he could have applied for a position and scuppered someone else's chances and then buggered off). Now we're being canned altogether.

b) I don't know, but I would guess she can't claim JSA AND receive the notice pay.

Mr_Cellophane

Mr Smooth wrote:

Ben,
b) would taking VR affect entitlement to Jobseekers allowance? especially as they have to pay her 12 weeks notice, although she may only work 1 month?

Possibly, it depends on the wording of the letter from the company. When people took VR from my old firm the union made sure the "V" word was not mentioned in any correspondence to the staff who took VR.

Pay in lieu of notice doesn't affect JSA. When she leaves she phones the Job Centre and makes an appointment for the first day she is unemployed. She can't claim if they put her on garden leave while things are finalised though.

Been there done that.

morstar

If there is a notice period (say 12 weeks), whether this 12 weeks is worked or not, you cannot claim JSA during this period. If you get it, gardening leave is hopefully the opportunity to secure a new job before entering the benefits system.

After that, you're free to claim but what you get depends on your financial circumstances. As the big redundancy payout is a thing of the past for most situations you'll probably get something

Mr_Cellophane

morstar wrote:

If there is a notice period (say 12 weeks), whether this 12 weeks is worked or not, you cannot claim JSA during this period. If you get it, gardening leave is hopefully the opportunity to secure a new job before entering the benefits system.

After that, you're free to claim but what you get depends on your financial circumstances. As the big redundancy payout is a thing of the past for most situations you'll probably get something

No
If she has to work her notice (or get it monthly, but don't have to go in) then she can't claim. If she gets 12 weeks pay in lieu of notice in her last pay packet, then she can claim from from the last day at work.
Be careful of getting a job during garden leave as that can be taken as resigning and she could loose her redundancy pay.

morstar

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

morstar wrote:

If there is a notice period (say 12 weeks), whether this 12 weeks is worked or not, you cannot claim JSA during this period. If you get it, gardening leave is hopefully the opportunity to secure a new job before entering the benefits system.

After that, you're free to claim but what you get depends on your financial circumstances. As the big redundancy payout is a thing of the past for most situations you'll probably get something

No
If she has to work her notice (or get it monthly, but don't have to go in) then she can't claim. If she gets 12 weeks pay in lieu of notice in her last pay packet, then she can claim from from the last day at work.
Be careful of getting a job during garden leave as that can be taken as resigning and she could loose her redundancy pay.

Only going off my own experience. I had my contract terminated with immediate effect. I was paid 5 weeks notice and a further 7 weeks redundancy pay. I was informed I was not eligible to claim anything until the 5 weeks expired by both CAB and the government bods.

You have been for that period so this does seem logical although I am no expert.

Mr Smooth

Could how the pay-off is worded affect ability to claim JSA? I.e. if employer says it is all redundancy pay, rather than notice pay?

Not sure if that would work as 12 weeks is the statutory notice period, rather than discretionary.

Mr_Cellophane

My letter said - slightly abbreviated

Your employment will cease by reason of redundancy on ...... The amount of xxxx will be paid to you in lieu of the notice to which you are entitled under your CoE together with any holiday owed.

I claimed JSA from the date on that letter. That is the letter I showed JC+ when claiming although I am sure they only looked at the word redundancy and the date.

burginn

Little bit off on a tangent but I think that f you take pay in lieu of notice this should be paid tax free by your employer (up to £30k IIRC) so long as it's not in your contract that you're entitled to pay in lieu of notice.

If you take that option, check your payslip to make sure it's been done correctly.

It all helps.

Good luck!!

Mr_Cellophane

burginn wrote:

Little bit off on a tangent but I think that f you take pay in lieu of notice this should be paid tax free by your employer (up to £30k IIRC) so long as it's not in your contract that you're entitled to pay in lieu of notice.

If you take that option, check your payslip to make sure it's been done correctly.

It all helps.

Good luck!!

No - your redundancy payment is first £30k tax free not PIL, holiday pay or any other additional payments.