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New brakes for a touring bike - clearance for mudguards?

willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
edited July 2010 in Workshop
I have a Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike and it came with Cantilever Brakes. Some of the worst brakes I've ever had the mis-fortune to use. Tekro and terrible. The rest of the gear is Shimano 105 and road levers, plus those funny mid-handlebar mounted extra levers. Quite useful once you get used to them being there.

Problem is, the braking performance is dreadful, I've replaced the cartridges with new pads and still dreadful. When you brake at the end of a long hill, they begin to make the most almighty din after a while. This evening for the first time, I stopped and took a close look at them and the wheel and it turns out they were wearing away the metal of the wheel rim and little bits of metal we all around the pads. Incredible. The pads must be absolutey aweful to do that to the wheels.

So they have to go. The whole brake assembly. What I need is ideally caliper style road brakes. But what would allow me to run 40mm mudguards beneath them and 700x25c tyres. I can file away some of the mudguard around the caliper, to make them less wide at that point, but will that be enough?

Any ideas welcome. Can't believe braking performance can vary so much. The Ultegra brakes on my Cannondale Six are like heaven.
Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(

Posts

  • gethmetalgethmetal Posts: 208
    The STI levers don't pull enough cable to operate V-brakes. I'm not certain, but I believe STI's pull 6mm and the V levers pull 9mm.

    There is a differential pulley you can fit in place of the Noodle pipe, that alters the ratio of pull offered by STi's. It's called a 'Travel Agent', or something similar, and you can get them from

    http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/

    If my rims were losing material to rubber pads, I'd replace them immediately. That isn't the brakes, that's knackered & fatigued rims.
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Awesome website. Thanks gethemetal.
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Ok, so if I wanted to fit road brakes, I have a distance of 60mm from the centre of the pin, holding the brake assembly, down to the centre of the rim where the pads would contact. I assume this is what's called "reach". Leaving myself a little leaway, are there any road brakes designed with say 65mm of a reach?
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • Weejie54Weejie54 Posts: 750
    There are some. The Tektro R556, for example. However, in my experience, long reach calipers tend to get 'whippy' when the y get extra long. Having just a single mounting point and the extra leverage effect of long reach brakes on a rim is not good IMO.You might be better off fitting standard cantilevers to suit your bosses. I am surprised that Condor fitted V-brakes with road levers. It isn't the ideal set-up.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html

    Standard cantilevers (with a straddle wire) are fitted to many tourers and are used with road levers. My own tourer has them and they are much better than calipers in dreich weather with a heavy load.
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Sorry, I edited the first entry. It's Tekro cantilevers that I have. And terrible they truly are. They're being actuated by 105 road levers and also those little seperate levers in the middle of the handlebar, common to CX bikes.

    I'd much rather have the kind of braking I'm used to on my road bike. I know it's won't be quite as good as the Ultegra brakes on my Cannondale, but these are Mavic Aksium wheels, which are low end of the range, but still around £150 a pair which isn't nothing. The braking performance shouldn't be THIS bad. And my pads shouldn't be wearing the metal of the rim away like they are. Hence the desire to change the braking type.

    I'd imagine even V brakes would be better than these Canti's. But Caliper would be better still. Though 60mm is a long reach, I'd be willing to try.
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Looks like a choice between the Shimano BR-R650 if the drop is in fact 57mm or less and the Tekro R556 if it's over 57mm.

    Not entirely sure exactly what they're measuring. Will try and pop into a bike store and see if a mechanic can take a look and tell me.
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I am using Campag Veloce linear pull (like mini-v) brakes on my Condor Heritage, on Mavic Open Pro rims and Tiagra shifters. They work very well and seem as good as on my other road bikes. I got them because I didn't want traditional canti's because of poor performance, and I didn't want to use travel agents (nearly cost as much as the campag brakes). Condor supplied mine with the bike, could probably buy from them.
    p013941.jpg

    Only thing I added was adjustable v-brake noodles, this is because the pads are close to the rim and there is no quick release on brake or adjustment on lever (and unhooking a conventional noodle is tricky on this setup)
    18060tektro_l.jpg
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Very helpful indeed. Thanks!
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Ok, so final question. Let's say I buy these brakes, one of the ones above, maybe even the V-brakes shown. What do I need to buy in order to fit them? How does it work? Is the wire seperate, do you buy lenths of the outer tube and cut them down to size and put those neat ends on them yourself, or do they come as kits? Any advice would be appreciated. I'd rather do it myself and learn if I can. It's becoming an expensive upgrade, as I've just taken delivery of a new rear mech, cassette and chain and have no tools to do them either!
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • Weejie54Weejie54 Posts: 750
    Hard to say exactly how much outer you'll need without seeing your existing set up but you can buy outers ad inner separate or together. Usually, you get more than enough outer if you buy it together with a inner. Many cables come with a MTB style nipple at one end and a road style nipple at the other, you cut off the one you don't need. You might need a cable stop as you probably won't be able to use the bridge between the seat stays. V-brakes normally have a built in stop.
    Personally, I would be looking at better quality cantilevers but the choice is yours.
  • willharris10willharris10 Posts: 166
    Can you lubricate the cable and inner or is it not advised, and what would you use if you did?
    Summer - Cannondale Six Ultegra
    Winter - Condor Bivio - cyclocross bike for commuting, cycle paths & rainy days - brilliant

    LBS - Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick - Simply the best LBS
    Stolen - 2001 Specialized Allez Elite :-(
  • Weejie54Weejie54 Posts: 750
    I use grease applied with a rag. Others use teflon spray or even furniture polish. I flux the cable ends and apply solder if done neatly, you can pull the cable out to re-lubricate.
    It is worthwhile investing in some proper cable cutters - they cut inner and outer.

    There is a method here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZQ49yxmf4
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