What's the difference between expensive and mid range cycles

Axleuk

You will have to excuse me if this has been discussed before but I hope some debate on the subject can help those people new to the sport to understand the difference cost makes when choosing a cycle.

Question: What exactley is the difference between a mid range cycle costing - for arguments sakes - £600 and a bike costing significantly more? (in the thousands).

Is the difference in ride comfort between the two price brackets seriously worth the extra outlay?

I understand that build quality and materials come at a cost but surely that is merely cosmetic.

It appears to me that maybe it's nothing more than bragging rights...but I am willing to be educated.

Anonymous

price.



on a serious not though, more expensive bikes tend to be either made from higher quality materials, or the workmanship is of a higher standard. For example the frame might have extra machining or processing done in certain areas to reduce weight without sacrificing strength (or vice versa).
They will also tend to come with higher quality parts, stronger, lighter wheels, stiffer and lighter crank arms, better suspension components and so on.

A very adjustable fork like a fox float can set you back the best part of a grand, and that kind of equipment just isn't available on cheaper bikes.

cee

depends on the bike...

take a hardtail mountain bike with suspension fork and disc brakes.

the 600 model will generally:

have a heavier frame than the expensive one.

the expensive one will also have finishing kit at the higher end of the range...this generally means, lighter, more powerful, more adjustable, more servicable.

again sticking to the hardtail...it is quite possible to get the same frame...but with different finishing it...and double the cost.

the expensive one will have:
fork - lighter, better compression damping, better rebound damping, perhaps both fully adjustable, perhaps adjustable travel and lockout.
Brakes - from entry level hydraulic discs, this will go up in the range to give more power, more modulation (the progression of the braking), more tool free lever adjustment etc...
Drivetrain - again..higher end kit will be lighter, give smoother shifting
Wheels - lighter without lowering strength, probably better tyres.

all these things need to be taken into consideration when buying a bike...the big question...and remember...buying a full build is usually cheaper than upgrading all of the parts...so sometimes...it is better to spend £200 now..to save £400 later...

of course..its not necessary...mostly people compromise based on the kit that is on the bike...what is most likely to break first (which will be upgraded when replaced)...thus spreading the cost of the equivalent more expensive bike.

lawman

expensive bikes are on the whole just better than cheaper ones, they are lighter, last longer, perform better, are usually stronger and carry a certain kudos. this doesnt mean that you cant have as much fun on a cheap bike as you can on an expensive one, and i always say buy the best you can afford

Anonymous

There's a great saying from (I think) Gary Fisher, which goes...

Light, Strong, Cheap. Pick any two.

cloudynights

some may say THE NAME

butcher of bakersfield

lawman wrote:

...last longer ... usually stronger...

Is that true though? In the quest for lighter, high performance parts, does strength and longevity not sometimes take a back seat? I'm genuinely curious on opinions. As I find that's the case with most things, not just mtb: there comes a compromise in reliability for performance.

Northwind

Yup, quite often expensive bits won't last as well. Just look at chainrings for a perfect example, or superlight race kit.

£600 is about as cheap as you can go without getting big compromises in spec generally so it's a good pricepoint, but there's still plenty of room for nicer stuff, or weight reduction without too much compromise. It's not til you get up to a couple of grand that you start running into the major diminishing returns I reckon, your Orange 5s and Zest 514s and the like sit at another really nice tipping point

underdog

When buying a bike me personally I aim for the best frame in that price range, with a decent fork. A lot of other kit will be replaced as and when it needs it like chain rings etc.

Buy a bike with a good frame and you can upgrade it a hell of a lot without too much hassle, with a cheap frame in the end you're going to want to hang all your upgrades on a better frame, which can be expensive and a pain when everything doesn't fit.

Northwind

I'd kind of go the other way actually, you can get a perfectly adequate frame for a fairly low price, but really good forks and wheels don't come cheap. If I took all the kit off my Soul and stuck it on my old Carrera Kraken frame, it wouldn't be as good as the Soul but it'd do the job perfectly well. Or a 456, or similiar. Whereas if I stuck the forks off that Carrera on the Soul, it'd pretty much break my heart

underdog

Northwind wrote:

I'd kind of go the other way actually, you can get a perfectly adequate frame for a fairly low price, but really good forks and wheels don't come cheap. If I took all the kit off my Soul and stuck it on my old Carrera Kraken frame, it wouldn't be as good as the Soul but it'd do the job perfectly well. Or a 456, or similiar.

I'm just thinking that the hardest part to replace on a bike is often the frame (if you're trying to hang existing parts on it), most upgrades you do on a good frame with lower spec drive trains etc will be done in smaller incraments and thus be cheaper, and of course you will buy something you know fits.

A good frame with a decent fork for me, drive train, seatposts etc are much easier to upgrade a little at a time or as they fail.

Northwind

That's certainly true, good point

Tom Barton

Good topic - interesting points.

I find the expensive higher quality parts (certain brands at least) last longer with less maintenence (better seals) whilst remaining strong, smooth and relatively light.

Look at parts like hope hubs, headsets and bbs. Chris king head sets. Formula and hope brakes (that don't tend to have low budget lineups), the list could get quite long. But all these parts cost alot of money and you don't start seeing them on bikes until you start hitting the 2k mark (or not altogether anyway).

I can kill cheap bottom brackets within a couple of mucky winter rides. High quality ones last me a year or more for example.

CycloRos

Axleuk wrote:

I understand that build quality and materials come at a cost but surely that is merely cosmetic.

Couldn't disagree more. Never has the choice of material and the quality of anything been purely driven by cosmetics!

My general rule of thumb when choosing a bike is if I can't justify the price tag and explain why it's so much better than X then I should probably be looking at something else

supersonic

I don't know why people can't make a good BB for cheap - they all use bearings that cost just a couple of quid. If you can replace your own it works out very cheap to get a good performing unit.

I also think some cheaper parts can last longer too ie steel chainrings, big chunky old deore cassettes, some 8 speed stuff.

dan shard

Many times its the parts. Say for example a mid range bike, the bottom version of that may have juicy 5's, rockshox Tora etc. The top version may have Fox forks and avid elixers / Hope. To put those components on to the cheaper bike would cost a lot, but the more expensive bike will be a bit cheaper than doing so

EG Cube AMS100. Many version of this starting from the comp which has Rebas and Hayes stroker brakes, then there is pro and others which may have Fox forks and formula brakes or whatever, and then theres version which have carbon / magnesium frame.

You pays you money you takes your chance

Axleuk

Ok, great! Some interesting responses and some good information to take away. A lot of the replies have centred mainly on the parts but can I turn your attention to the quality of the overall ride.

How much does expense play when it comes to actually riding the bike.

Does a well built bike stocked with great forks make riding over a rock garden less bone shaking or is this down to technique? Do expensive brakes make you stop in a more controlled manner or expensive wheels and tyres give you more confidence to get in and out of your turns better?

I ask these questions because I have been feeling recently that you can acheive just as good a ride from something cheaper if used correctly.

In the next week or so I will be in the market for a full sus bike. My budget is about £700 now from what I previuosly thought. I have to decide whether to invest all the money on something with a great frame that can be upgraded with better parts in time or just buy the best off the shelf bike with acceptable parts.

I want to improve my riding skill (that will come in time) but also want to future proof my investment (I don't want to be buying another bike in a few months time, although I accept that we all suffer from bike envy).

Anonymous

at £700 I'd stick to hardtails, or a second hand full suss.

Axleuk

yeehaamcgee wrote:

at £700 I'd stick to hardtails, or a second hand full suss.

It will be a 2nd hand full sus. More than likely something from the GIANT range unless I come across something special within the price range.

supersonic

Does a well built bike stocked with great forks make riding over a rock garden less bone shaking or is this down to technique? Do expensive brakes make you stop in a more controlled manner or expensive wheels and tyres give you more confidence to get in and out of your turns better?

Sometimes - value varies so much, and some expensive stuff is not as good as the price might suggest. Brakes all feel slightly different, but even the cheaper ones are powerful and controlled nowadays. I'd prefer a Tora 318 anyday over the basic level Fox R forks.

But most of all, fit. You can have the most expensive bike in the world, but it will not perform if it doesn't suit you. Sotesting will answer most your questions.

Raphe

I’m lucky enough that I could have splashed out quite a bit on bike but as a newbie I asked a friend with bags of experience for advice. It went along the lines of...

Get a decent hardtail until you are a more competent rider, only then will you truly appreciate something really nice

Everyone thinks crap riders on really expensive bikes are massive tools.

I’m quite pleased I took his advice.

Axleuk

Raphe wrote:

I’m lucky enough that I could have splashed out quite a bit on bike but as a newbie I asked a friend with bags of experience for advice. It went along the lines of...

Get a decent hardtail until you are a more competent rider, only then will you truly appreciate something really nice

Everyone thinks crap riders on really expensive bikes are massive tools.

I’m quite pleased I took his advice.

I would love to take your firends advice, but i'm impatient and the funds are available to nme at the moment. I can't say with any certainty that I will have the money at a later date.

I currently ride a GT Avalanche 2.0. Great bike but I've never had anything to compare it to be honest.

I don't have a lot of riding experience and whilst I have had a few 'offs' I personally think I would enjoy the trails a lot more.

Northwind

supersonic wrote:

I don't know why people can't make a good BB for cheap - they all use bearings that cost just a couple of quid. If you can replace your own it works out very cheap to get a good performing unit.

Deore's cheap and not too bad, doesn't seem to be lasting as well as my XTs though. Gusst EXT24 got good reviews didn't it, not quite cheap at £24 but a lot less than some.

CycloRos

Axleuk wrote:

I would love to take your firends advice, but i'm impatient and the funds are available to nme at the moment. I can't say with any certainty that I will have the money at a later date.

I currently ride a GT Avalanche 2.0. Great bike but I've never had anything to compare it to be honest.

I don't have a lot of riding experience and whilst I have had a few 'offs' I personally think I would enjoy the trails a lot more.

In today's current financial climate you'll struggle to get anything significantly better than your GT for £700. Secondhand can be a bit of a mindfield unless you really know your onions too, but it's your cash at the end of the day.

Remember, enjoying the trails isn't just about the bike your riding, why not concentrate on getting more miles/experience under your belt...

Axleuk

CycloRos wrote:

Axleuk wrote:

I would love to take your firends advice, but i'm impatient and the funds are available to nme at the moment. I can't say with any certainty that I will have the money at a later date.

I currently ride a GT Avalanche 2.0. Great bike but I've never had anything to compare it to be honest.

I don't have a lot of riding experience and whilst I have had a few 'offs' I personally think I would enjoy the trails a lot more.

In today's current financial climate you'll struggle to get anything significantly better than your GT for £700. Secondhand can be a bit of a mindfield unless you really know your onions too, but it's your cash at the end of the day.

Remember, enjoying the trails isn't just about the bike your riding, why not concentrate on getting more miles/experience under your belt...

I do understand where you are coming from, and had I not had the money burning a hole in my pocket I would probably be more than satisfied with the GT...but I know I can get better secondhand (with the help of you guys).

I have my heart set on a full suss. I just think it will give me a smoother experience on the trails and I honestly beleive that will encourage me to tackle the ride with a little more conviction. If I were to opt for something like a secondhand GIANT X? as my mate has done then the options for upgrading as far better than my current situation.

jayson

I find more expensive kit gives me more confidence in the bike so i can ride faster or harder although at the end of the day its all down to the rider not the bike.

A good rider on a cheap bike will always be quicker than a bad rider on a top of the range machine.

My current bike wasnt expensive compared to my stolen machine but ive had a bucket load of laughs on it since gettin it last feb and i feel a great sense of pride with how it looks and rides afta spending a 'few' quid on new parts for it.