O/T Ban the Burka

spen666

Well it is o/t unless anyone is wearing it to commute.

i'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this debate, but a quote from a minister over the weekend to the effect that "banning the burka (won't happen because it) is un British" did make me smile.

Why?

Well Banning the burka may be un British, but so is the Burka in itself is it not?

spen666

Interesting story in the Daily Mail on this topic

Daily Mail

It always amazes me how we end up protecting "rights" people do not have in their own land

Stevo_666

Not sure I care too much about the rights or wrongs but imagine how difficult it is in countries where it's standard ladies wear if they want to do an ID parade...

jonny_trousers

spen666 wrote:

Interesting story in the Daily Mail on this topic

Now there's a sentence I've never read before.

snailracer

Ban the burkha.

Then ban hoodies, floppy hats, peaked caps, sunglasses, tinted windows, makeup, wigs, etc., because they all obscure your identity and make a political/cultural statement of some sort to someone.

Or simply don't.

rjsterry

Does my face mask count?

I'd agree that banning things isn't terribly British. Not going to click on that DM link though, I'll only wind myself up, but you're assuming that all those who (choose) to wear the burka are either foreign nationals, or at least not British by birth - based on what? Muslims have been living in this country for over a hundred years.

As for the burka itself being unBritish: well, not specifically British, but the idea that women should cover up, albeit to a lesser extent still holds sway with some people in this country, and even in the 19th century, a women wearing her hair 'down' was seen as improper. See also, the tradition of women wearing hats in church.

snailracer

Ban everything. Then there would be those amongst us who are offended by public nudity.

dhope

Surely it's un-British to ban if we're assuming that we're tolerant.
Obviously plenty aren't. Daily Mail readers for example.

I've not seen read the article. Did we fight the war to give women the right to not be oppressed or to allow them to wear what they'd like? (It's a shame Muslims don't speak German, that would wrap things up for the DM nicely.)

Disclaimer: Obv plenty do, the German or multi-lingual Muslims.

spen666

snailracer wrote:

Ban everything. Then there would be those amongst us who are offended by public nudity.

There would be no public nidity if you banned everything as public nudity would be banned!!!
however, Bans would also be banned aswould banning bans

spen666

dhope wrote:

Surely it's un-British to ban if we're assuming that we're tolerant.
Obviously plenty aren't. Daily Mail readers for example.

I've not seen read the article. Did we fight the war to give women the right to not be oppressed or to allow them to wear what they'd like? (It's a shame Muslims don't speak German, that would wrap things up for the DM nicely.)

Disclaimer: Obv plenty do, the German or multi-lingual Muslims.

Amazing how stupidly ignorant some people are

You are attacking the Daily Mail for an article you have not read-

If you had the sense to even find out what the story is you would see how stupid you look

lost_in_thought

It is quite a good article, actually, to give the Daily Mail their due.

Jay dubbleU

I notice that Syria has banned the wearing of full face coverings at its universities - personally I feel that people should be allowed to wear what they want when they want - if we ban the burka surely we are as bad as the Taliban who make it compulsary

Kieran_Burns

The ban is actually to not allow the face to be hidden in public.

I personally cannot see how this could work, unless you had a list as long as your leg on items that WEREN'T included and just left the burka out

(think crash hlemets, facemasks, bloody stupid sun-glasses, etc)

Clever Pun

surely with places like universities and the like they have a dress code.. anyone can apply as long as they're happy with the rules set out at the time... akin to nightclubs with dress codes if you don't like it choose somewhere else

or it that setting a dangerous precedent?

roger_merriman

so long as it's their free choice. then the law should not be used.

I really don't care what folk wear or do so long as it doesn't harm others.

dhope

spen666 wrote:

dhope wrote:

Surely it's un-British to ban if we're assuming that we're tolerant.
Obviously plenty aren't. Daily Mail readers for example.

I've not seen read the article. Did we fight the war to give women the right to not be oppressed or to allow them to wear what they'd like? (It's a shame Muslims don't speak German, that would wrap things up for the DM nicely.)

Disclaimer: Obv plenty do, the German or multi-lingual Muslims.

Amazing how stupidly ignorant some people are

You are attacking the Daily Mail for an article you have not read-

If you had the sense to even find out what the story is you would see how stupid you look

Fine fine, read it. It's a perfectly decent but not particularly interesting article.
We shouldn't ban the Burka as we're a tolerant country. We value our freedoms. Sarkozy takes the other view, says it's oppressive. All pretty standard stuff. The idea that women might want to wear it rather than through a sense of religious duty is hardly groundbreaking either.

'Quite frankly, MPs, there's a £160billion debt; shouldn't they be busier worrying about what they're going to do about that, than a small piece of cloth that a few women choose to wear?'
What does the budget deficit have to do anything?

If I had to read every Daily Mail article before dismissing it I'd have no time for proper news. Must I watch Fox news too? This is an internet forum, you have to allow for a certain level of flippancy and facetious replies.

Fixxxer87

dhope wrote:

spen666 wrote:

dhope wrote:

Surely it's un-British to ban if we're assuming that we're tolerant.
Obviously plenty aren't. Daily Mail readers for example.

Amazing how stupidly ignorant some people are

You are attacking the Daily Mail for an article you have not read-

If you had the sense to even find out what the story is you would see how stupid you look

Making the assumption that Daily Mail readers might be a bit intolerant is kinda like saying that white van may cut you up, or the beemer driver may just park in the cycle stop zone.

pastey_boy

on the other hand some muslim women have wispy beards and the burka conceals their furry cheeks. maybe only fit muslim women should be banned from wearing burkas.

Fixxxer87

pastey_boy wrote:

on the other hand some muslim women have wispy beards and the burka conceals their furry cheeks. maybe only fit muslim women should be banned from wearing burkas.

We would need someone to sit on a committee that decided if they were fit or not...

Agent57

snailracer wrote:

Ban the burkha.

Then ban hoodies, floppy hats, peaked caps, sunglasses

Already done that, ain't they? Certainly in the minds of security guards in some shops and malls I've visited. I even got asked to take off my cycle helmet and shades during a visit to PC World ones (I needed something in a hurry!).

pastey_boy

Fixxxer87 wrote:

pastey_boy wrote:

on the other hand some muslim women have wispy beards and the burka conceals their furry cheeks. maybe only fit muslim women should be banned from wearing burkas.

We would need someone to sit on a committee that decided if they were fit or not...

thats easy. you could employ the ninja velcro technique.
you take a scouring pad and press it against the face of the burka wearer, you then let go, if the scouring pad fall to the floor then the woman gets instant burka immunity but if the pad stays in place then its a burka for her .

Specialized Needs

spen666 wrote:

Well it is o/t unless anyone is wearing it to commute.

This intrigued me - anyone seen this at all?

On a more mundane point, are we not actually discussing the niqab?

bails87

Agent57 wrote:

snailracer wrote:

Ban the burkha.

Then ban hoodies, floppy hats, peaked caps, sunglasses

Already done that, ain't they? Certainly in the minds of security guards in some shops and malls I've visited. I even got asked to take off my cycle helmet and shades during a visit to PC World ones (I needed something in a hurry!).

But that's in a private business, where face coverings are banned. As opposed to banning something completely harmless in any public space.

Agent57

I don't really see a difference if it's in a private shop or in public. It's completely harmless in either case. And in my opinion, while a shopping mall might be owned by a private company, it's still "public space" (in the sense that it's open and in full view, rather than behind closed doors).

I'm not in favour of the banning of either veils, hoods, baseball caps or anything like that. Maybe I could see a case for banning the wearing of SAS/bank robber/IRA-style balaclavas in public, purely from the point of view that the association with intimidating images is strong. But I don't think that applies to the niqab or burqa (judging by Google image search, they seem to refer to the same thing).

Maybe I should start wearing a ninja-style hood, and see what the reaction is. I did buy a shemagh last winter (which can be worn in a manner that also covers up most of the face). O_o

stickman

If people are wearing this islamic far-right headgear and driving with partially obscured vision that's as bad as drink-driving.

antfly

Don`t worry, their husbands would never let them drive.

UndercoverElephant

Specialized Needs wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Well it is o/t unless anyone is wearing it to commute.

This intrigued me - anyone seen this at all?

On a more mundane point, are we not actually discussing the niqab?

How would headline writers make a decent alliteration? 'Nix the Niqab' is about the best I can do.

Also, one morning, whilst commuting, I did see a young, Muslim girl wearing what seemed to be an odd combination: a full-face niqab with an insanely short skirt, stockings and suspenders.

spen666

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Specialized Needs wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Well it is o/t unless anyone is wearing it to commute.

This intrigued me - anyone seen this at all?

On a more mundane point, are we not actually discussing the niqab?

How would headline writers make a decent alliteration? 'Nix the Niqab' is about the best I can do.

Also, one morning, whilst commuting, I did see a young, Muslim girl wearing what seemed to be an odd combination: a full-face niqab with an insanely short skirt, stockings and suspenders.

"No Niquabs"?

stickman

Niqabbers Nicked!

You're Niqed!

Specialized Needs

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Also, one morning, whilst commuting, I did see a young, Muslim girl wearing what seemed to be an odd combination: a full-face niqab with an insanely short skirt, stockings and suspenders.

:shock:

The lengths people go to be safe on a bike, eh? However, I'm sure a skirt guard would have been adequate

notsoblue

Call me a soft southern metropolitan lefty, but I really don't care what people wear as long as they aren't (genuinely) hurting others. This whole issue has been blown out of all proportion by groups that just don't like people being different. I fail to see how seeing someone in a niqab walking down the street can genuinely offend you unless you have a chip on your shoulder about what society owes you. Or you could just be a bit of a pr1ck.