Anyone use lights during the day?

wizzlebanger

Took delivery of my Blackburn Mars 3.0 light and fitted it on Saturday for my Sunday ride.

It was overcast yesterday and some of the lanes around Rivington Pike / Lever Park are overhung with trees and get pretty dark so it's useful for that. I had the light set to flashing mode.

As I'm riding the bike it's tricky to tell how bright it appears to motorists but I did think to myself that more people did seem to give me a wider berth than usual.

Any one any opinions and I guess has anyone ever had anything said to them for having lights on during the day?

Just curious.

Stevo_666

I do. It can do no harm and shouldn't cost as long as you're using rechargeables.

There was a thread on here in the last week on this point.

jonny_trousers

Stevo 666 wrote:

There was a thread on here in the last week on this point.

There was indeed.

Flashing front and strobing rear for daylight.

tjwood

Rear always - flashing in the day, solid at night.
Front only when it's overcast (or dark), always solid. In bright sunshine a front light seems pointless. Besides, in daylight I can clearly see what's in front of me, so can take evasive action if I see something's about to go wrong.

jonny_trousers

tjwood wrote:

Front only when it's overcast (or dark), always solid. In bright sunshine a front light seems pointless. Besides, in daylight I can clearly see what's in front of me, so can take evasive action if I see something's about to go wrong.

The front light in daytime is not to help you see, but to help you be seen. I decided to use a flashing front light in the daytime the day I was sat in a traffic jam in my car and my attention was drawn to a flashing white light in my wing mirror. It obviously turned out to be a cyclist gliding along to the right of the queue and I was impressed by how noticeable the light made them in a situation where car doors could be opened or U-turns suddenly taken.

tjwood

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

The front light in daytime is not to help you see, but to help you be seen. I decided to use a flashing front light in the daytime the day I was sat in a traffic jam in my car and my attention was drawn to a flashing white light in my wing mirror. It obviously turned out to be a cyclist gliding along to the right of the queue and I was impressed by how noticeable the light made them in a situation where car doors could be opened or U-turns suddenly taken.

Hmm. I agree in gloomy conditions a driver is more likely to notice you with a light on. But when it's bright sunshine, it's not going to make a difference. If they are paying attention, they will see you; if they aren't, they won't, even if you are painted bright yellow and stood on top of a lighthouse. Which is half of the argument. The other half is that as in daylight you can clearly see everything in front of you, you should never end up in a situation where you are relying solely on drivers in front of you having seen you.

From the rear, the second half of the argument doesn't apply, so it's worth having a light at all times.

This is just my reasoning and I'm sure yours is equally valid. Personally I don't think the benefits from having a front light on in bright sunshine outweigh the hassle of charging batteries every day or two (whereas my rear light lasts much longer).

cjcp

I do if it's gloomy and/or raining.

jonny_trousers

Well like you say, you can reason these things to death. For me, even if no one ever notices my front flashing light in daytime, I see no harm. Apart from anything (not that I have had to replace my double-As in about three months) I have access to an unlimited supply of less than half used AAs as I work in a theatre and they change the radio mic batteries for every performance, just to be safe. (anyone want some then do give me a shout).

Specialized Needs

tjwood wrote:

Hmm. I agree in gloomy conditions a driver is more likely to notice you with a light on. But when it's bright sunshine, it's not going to make a difference.

This depends on the conditions. I ride with a flashing front/back all of the time. I find that in low sunlight it gets me noticed. But then I commute out of the east in the morning and west in the evening, so often the sun blinds drivers when they look my way and the flash (against the eclipse that is my not inconsiderable bulk) helps. Personally I cannot see that it hurts and is useful when it helps.

tjwood wrote:

If they are paying attention, they will see you;

This is where I disagree, and where I want to give them all the assistance I can by providing something that may catch the eye.

tjwood wrote:

if they aren't, they won't, even if you are painted bright yellow and stood on top of a lighthouse. Which is half of the argument.

So why bother with lights at all, then? Surely if they are not paying attention, sometimes one can do something to draw attention (admittedly it is not guaranteed to work).

tjwood wrote:

The other half is that as in daylight you can clearly see everything in front of you, you should never end up in a situation where you are relying solely on drivers in front of you having seen you.

Agreed wholeheartedly, but try as I might, I am not perfect either and get myself in situations that I'd rather not be in, and sometimes drivers help me out by taking care around me when I make them aware of my presence and lots of things help like eye contact, positioning, but also possibly lights(?).

tjwood wrote:

From the rear, the second half of the argument doesn't apply, so it's worth having a light at all times.

This is just my reasoning and I'm sure yours is equally valid. Personally I don't think the benefits from having a front light on in bright sunshine outweigh the hassle of charging batteries every day or two (whereas my rear light lasts much longer).

How long is your commute? I use a Smart 1/2 watt front and back. I commute 1h15m each way and change the (rechargeable) batteries every fortnight during the summer (conveniently at the weekend, not because they've run out).

But, as you say, you have your reasoning, and I'll respect that. Personally, I wonder whether you are underestimating the effect of a flashing light to draw attention even in ambient daylight? But maybe that is your experience.

BSRU

I have at least one front and rear flasher on, no harm and may get me noticed. Also, even in bright sunshine some parts of my ride are in shaded area's where the lights are more noticeable..

wizzlebanger

Thanks for all the replies peeps. It seems that everyone is of the opinion that a rear light at all time is certainly a good idea.

Is that because I expect most of us fear being wiped out from behind the most? The fact that we won't have any chance to evade or any warning means the rear light is more worthwhile to attract attention to us?

Seems opinion is split on the front. I don't use one at the moment (in the day)but that doesn't mean I won't.

UndercoverElephant

I don't bother unless it's gloomy or raining. That said, I'd use lights when driving in those conditions too.

surreyxc

I reckon just as important on those sunny days, when I drive I am surprised at how hidden cars and cyclists are lost in dappled shade. Most fronts and few rears on the market are easily visible in bright sun. I drive with my lights on most of the time, always on the motorway, motorbikes have them on. Though I really think that having lights on only really works if the majority of other roads user do not have them on, it makes you stand out, people are drawn to the light. If everyone has lights on then you are one of many, you no longer stand out, at night in urban areas I use the strobe, I think it pisses people off but it is different from other lights so again draws attention.

The trouble is on a sunny day I always forget to take my lights!

vorsprung

I have really good lights but they aren't daylight visible, not really

Of course I turn them on in fog or gloomy conditions but not in normal daylight, there is no point.

This is yet another idea like wearing hi viz. Like hi viz, it works best in poor visibility and the car driver has to be looking anyway. So of marginal importance

Agent57

I put my front lamp on when I'm on my motorbike, but not on my bike. Mainly, I suppose, because my lamp isn't even attached to my bike in the lighter months. But the "being seen" reasoning does apply on my bike as much as on my motorbike, so maybe I'll start using it.

cougie

If its dull or wet or bad vis - then yes. Not so much at the front though - as I can see whats going on there - but at the back - yes definitely.

If its a low sunshine issue though - forget it - just choose a different direction to ride in. No light will outshine the sun.

surreyxc

vorsprung. I think you are mistaken. Maybe not your lights, but many of today LEDs can be seen over a long distance in the brightest of light. Secondly even when a bright light is in someones peripheral vision it will and does attracts their attention. The eye and brain are naturally drawn to the brightest object in the field of vision. Think about safety device such as signalling mirrors or emergency strobes these are used for exactly that reason for grabbing attention from a distance even in daylight.

surreyxc

what lights are you guys using, I have tested it, bright day 30c midday sun, have put my modest 200lumen strobe on, then walked 500m away from the bike, looked back and yep there is the light flashing way, not faintly, not hard to see, but more like what the hell is that! Get some better lights.

AndyManc

They are effective, if it's only to make motorists think 'Why has he/she got his/her lights on" .

I don't do it, HI-VIS top seems enough.

.

surreyxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn0mXtWvIUY

okay this an overcast day, but you get the idea, even when it is a pinprick your eye is drawn to it. Whether you use lights or not your choice, but to say they do not work in the day is false.

jonny_trousers

I think it is more the flashing/strobing effect that draws the eye's attention, especially in my wing mirror example above where it will be moving from left to right also.

Perhaps my eyesight is weird, but I've had my attention drawn to cyclists with their lights on during the day while driving, so that is all the reasoning I need to do so myself.

tjwood

Heh. I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning. I can still see the arguments both ways regarding the front. Anyway, as I was stopped at the traffic lights, another cyclist pulled up behind and said "not sure if you realise mate, you've got your [rear] light on". He seemed most surprised when I told him it was delibrate...

vorsprung

surreyxc wrote:

vorsprung. I think you are mistaken. Maybe not your lights, but many of today LEDs can be seen over a long distance in the brightest of light. Secondly even when a bright light is in someones peripheral vision it will and does attracts their attention. The eye and brain are naturally drawn to the brightest object in the field of vision. Think about safety device such as signalling mirrors or emergency strobes these are used for exactly that reason for grabbing attention from a distance even in daylight.

I have a 60 lux B&M Cyo front light and a B&M secuite on the back on the best bike
On the commuter bike I have a 40 lux B&M IQ Fly front and a cateye LD1100 plus a Smart Super Flash on the back

Whilst the lights arms race continues apace, I'd say these lights compare well with almost anything available for a bike

When I ride at night people comment that "they thought I was a car"

Even so I'd be surprised if they made any difference to visiblity in daylight