Hill Climbing Technique (can anyone improve mine?)

Bobbinogs

Folks,

I am having a few problems getting up a big hill on one of my training routes. It is about 1.5 miles long, rises a total of just over 1,000 ft with long inclines of 20%.

I can get up the hill but I am having to stop twice to get my breath back before carrying on...and I don't like stopping! I am trying to sit as much as possible but, because I don't have hugely powerful thighs yet, I have to get up and stomp for large parts (even with my granny gear (EDIT: 30-25 on a triple)).

One thing that cannot be helping is that when I stand I get frequent "wheel spins" with the back wheel which b*ggers my rhythm and must be wasting loads of energy. The tyres are Carbon Kyrilions, btw. Are the wheel spins inevitable because of the gradient? I cannot get more weight over the back without fear of tipping back or losing power over the pedals.

So, it is just a case of practice makes perfect or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?

acidstrato

how quick are you trying to ascend it? i.e times/speeds/heart rate

everyone has their own technique...if you have to force yourself to replicate contador's bobbing or armstrong's weaving then its not gonna feel natural or comfortable.

I find pace management is the most important factor in climbing. if your running out of breath, then you need to slow down in my books

jibberjim

Bobbinogs wrote:

I am having a few problems getting up a big hill on one of my training routes. It is about 1.5 miles long, rises a total of just over 1,000 ft with long inclines of 20%.

So, it is just a case of practice makes perfect or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?

If you're a 75kg rider, then a 1.5 mile hill averaging 12.5%, climbed in 50x25 with your cadence staying above 60rpm (which is only 9mph) requires you to be putting out 500watts for over 9minutes.

Of course, I suspect you're actually using 34x25, (ie you are using the small ring at the front and you have a 50x34 front set up) So to keep 34x25 at 60rpm then you only need 360watts, but of course now you need it for almost 14 minutes

I'm not that weak a cyclist - I'm right up there on the Box Hill challenge, but at 75kg I can only manage 360watts for 14 minutes, so I'm right on the limit of being able to climb it in 34x25. I certainly go with 34x28, and if I was actually trying to race up it I'd want even smaller gears.

So, get the right gearing for that hill, when it starts hitting 20%, even the pros, in a race, go for lower gears than you're using.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/ ... lon_118438

You either need to get the right gearing or to get an awful lot of watts from somewhere.

Bobbinogs

Chaps, thanks for the prompt and helpful replies. The gearing is a triple so it is a 50 x 39 x 30T.

acidstrato, noting your location I now hold you partially responsible for this one since it is the hill climbing out of Llanover up to Blaenavon . I did suspect that I might need to be slowing my pace down since it is the lack of puff that eventually stops me. The fun trying to restart on that incline keeps me going until then.

Jibberjim I am 70kg so, along with the lower gearing, it looks like I don't have reasonable excuse :oops:

I wondered if it might be a case of ignoring how slow my cadence/speed drops and just concentrating on keeping my breath?

softlad

most people would probably struggle on a climb of close to 1000ft in 1.5 miles - I wouldn't worry too much....it's never going to be easy - less about technique and more about power and lung capacity...

antfly

Better, more grippy tyres, might stop the wheel spins.

acidstrato

haha i know that way past usk, crazy climbs! the keepers llanfoist - blaenavon is equally as challenging which I did myself a couple weeks ago. originally i was going over llanover but after wentwood hill climb I decided to continue along the A road to abergervenny and around to llanfoist. too be fair theres not alot of shame having to stop on those climbs

keeping a steady heart rate will assist in controlling the breathing, you dont wanna hit your VO2 max when you've still got a fair way to go. keeping seated for aslong as possible helps save the fast twitch muscles for when you really need them

theres also alot of loose gravel around these parts as the councils keep laying chippings on poor conditioned roads

CrackFox

My commute home includes a 1 mile climb of around 600ft - not as challenging as yours, but tough enough on a heavy bike with a loaded backpack. I read a quote somewhere that said "you should feel like you can play piano while riding your bike." i.e. straight back, arms relaxed, hands resting very loosely on the bars etc. I try to stick to that and it really helps. A metronome could be useful too, to help with the cadence

Weejie54

I read a quote somewhere that said "you should feel like you can play piano while riding your bike." i.e. straight back, arms relaxed, hands resting very loosely on the bars etc. I try to stick to that and it really helps. A metronome could be useful too, to help with the cadence

You might find a tandem more useful. That way, you could take someone along to turn the pages while you play.

gwillis

Bobbinogs wrote:

Chaps, thanks for the prompt and helpful replies. The gearing is a triple so it is a 50 x 39 x 30T.

acidstrato, noting your location I now hold you partially responsible for this one since it is the hill climbing out of Llanover up to Blaenavon . I did suspect that I might need to be slowing my pace down since it is the lack of puff that eventually stops me. The fun trying to restart on that incline keeps me going until then.

Jibberjim I am 70kg so, along with the lower gearing, it looks like I don't have reasonable excuse :oops:

I wondered if it might be a case of ignoring how slow my cadence/speed drops and just concentrating on keeping my breath?

Llanonver to Blaenavon is a mega hill , I take my hat off to anybody doing it. My old Dad use to pull up it on a Nelson alloy bike with tiagra and I never realised how hard it was until I had a go. Not sure I could do it with a compact mind you

John Stevenson

The most common mistake people seem to make on hills is to go too hard at the start. For something like this you really need to stay seated, gear right down from the off and meditate your way up it. You can work on points for style later!

Monty Dog

Firstly, you're unlikely to tip-backwards unless it's upwards of 40% - you have long way to go. By the sound of it, it's you fitness that may be the limiting factor - so the only real solution is to ride more. Krylions are a good tyre, but don't pump them to the max, otherwise they just bounce and loose grip - for most 6-7 bar is enough - a 25mm tyre on the back will improve grip though. Just try and keep a steady pace throughout - it may feel slow at the bottom, but you need to keep out the 'red zone' - make a mental marker every time you ride the hill, get to know where it steepens slightly and therefore where you may need a short spell out the saddle. Be conscious of your breathing rate and the need to keep a steady rhythm.

cougie

If your wheel is spinning then you have too much weight over the front of the bars and not enough at the rear.

I'd try and take it easier next time you ride the climb - just backing off a bit may help you with your pacing.

Bobbinogs

Thanks everyone for all the useful info. It is all beginning to make sense: slow down, get the gearing right, get a pace going, not too much tyre pressure (go to a 25 if still having problems spinning), stay seated as long as poss, stand where necessary and use patience as the magic ingredient. When struggling, think of some monkeys on a piano "you hum it son and I'll play it" and then smile my way over the top.

It is nice to have a challenge and this one (getting to the top without stopping) is now mine... that and the Exmoor Beast at the end of October

Onwards and upwards!

rick_chasey

Don't think that by getting better at climbing that it will hurt less... You just go up it faster.

Took me a while to work out that the level of suffering is just a measure for how fast/slow you are going (within your own abiltiies).

Bobbinogs

Thanks Rick. It's not the pain I mind, it is the comedy moments trying to get the pedals to turn and then clipped back in when having to start again at 20% that hurts (and the thought that someone could be filming me taking the 3 attempts it took the last time around).

STEFANOS4784

Here ya go matey;

http://www.epoboost.com/?gclid=COuMoZC9 ... lAodHxxGlA

Barbes

Are you properly warmed up when you hit the start of the hill? I find my climbing is noticeably better when I've at least 12-15 miles in the legs.

ratsbeyfus

Barbes wrote:

Are you properly warmed up when you hit the start of the hill? I find my climbing is noticeably better when I've at least 12-15 miles in the legs.

I agree with the above...

Sorry for thread hijack, but I'm planning to cycle up Ventoux and Alpe D'Huez in a few weeks, and wondered whether to go for a warm up ride for a few miles (approx 5 miles?) before hand, or save my legs a little and try and warm up on the climbs themselves. Any suggestions?

guilliano

I find that climbing is easier if I sing to myself in my head..... it makes me pedal in time and keep a steadier cadence.

Lightning

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Sorry for thread hijack, but I'm planning to cycle up Ventoux and Alpe D'Huez in a few weeks, and wondered whether to go for a warm up ride for a few miles (approx 5 miles?) before hand, or save my legs a little and try and warm up on the climbs themselves. Any suggestions?

Warm up first always. The difference is huge. 5 miles might not be enough. Just do 10 or something and you'll save yourself some real pain.

Bobbinogs

All, just a quick conclusion to this one and a chance to say "Thanks" to everyone who contributed and perhaps leave a few tips to others on the learning curve.

My challenge was to get up a big hill just outside Llanover without stopping (I had tried this three times and the best result was stopping only twice, exploding).

Well, I was back in Wales three weeks ago as final prep for the Exmoor Beast and I have been practising all the advice given:

Slow down, get the gearing right, get a pace going, not too much tyre pressure (I went 80 F&R), stay seated as long as poss, stand where necessary and use patience as the magic ingredient. I ensured that I measured my cadence (when in bottom gear) to stay out of the redline zone. I also made sure I had a few warm up miles in my legs before ascending.

Well, a summer of training and all the technique above...and I went up in one, even whizzing over the cattle grid at the top marking the end of the climb. It wasn't easy, but it felt great. I went on to do all the hills the Beast could throw at me but need to go back next year and see if I can improve my time of 7 hours, 11 mins. Always another challenge

Thanks to all.

rc856

Excellent.
Congrats

gbs

Bobbinogs wrote:

I ensured that I measured my cadence (when in bottom gear) to stay out of the redline zone. I also made sure I had a few warm up miles in my legs before ascending.


.

Well done and it is good to read about improvements. I think I slipped back on all my timed tests such as Box Hill this yr although there were some first successes on hills that previously defeated me.

Now, what do you mean by red zone? Is this some limit such as, more than 80% of max HR?

dmch2

I'm rubbish at climbing but getting better (good advice on this topic). I think I spin the pedals relatively fast (90 rpm feels most comfortable to me, 80 is definitely a bit heavy and 100 a bit fast) and I use bottom gear on my triple on steeper hills. My definition of steep is about 10% for half a mile which I can now manage at about 7mph. Like I said, I'm not very good!

I'm basically limited by fitness, if I go any faster at the start I'm gasping and slowing down near the top (which gets steeper). I thought I'd try standing up on the steeper bits to see if it would help... I find that it gives massively more power but after about 5 revs I'm totally cream crackered!

Is there a way of standing up which isn't quite so dramatic? Or is it a case of keep practising and I'll be able to sustain it for longer?

benno68

gbs wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

I ensured that I measured my cadence (when in bottom gear) to stay out of the redline zone. I also made sure I had a few warm up miles in my legs before ascending.


.

Well done and it is good to read about improvements. I think I slipped back on all my timed tests such as Box Hill this yr although there were some first successes on hills that previously defeated me.

Now, what do you mean by red zone? Is this some limit such as, more than 80% of max HR?

I've heard that it's 90% and above, ouch!

As for a tip on hill climbing, I find verbally abusing myself when exhaling works wonders

Well done Bobbinogs - cracking achievement!

dmch2

Some research recently found that swearing increased your pain tolerance threshold. If nothing else after 30 seconds I find I have to think hard to come up with new phrases and have less time to think about the pain!