Look Mum, no tubes

asprilla

Right,

Tonight I've started experimenting with tubeless road tyres. I mentioned in 'stuff you've bought' thread and a couple of folks wanted to know what they are like, so here goes;

Wheels are Fulcrum Racing 1 2-Way Fit
Tyres are Hutchinson Atoms

I put the tyres on today. I used three tyre levers to do it, but I do that with clinchers anyway, so no difference there.

It was a lot easier than a standard clincher because there were no pinch flats to worry about. I've put on Schwalbe Marathon Plus before and it was no harder than that.

Once the tyre is on I just had to do a little pinching and adjusting in order to make sure it was correctly seated.

The online videos say that you should lube the edges of the tyre with soapy water in order to get them to seat properly, but I'm impatient so I just tried to pump them up with a track pump.

Again, most folks online say this is hard, but I think they are using conversion kits on standard wheels because in this case they just went straight up.

I've got no sealant yet, will add that as soon as it arrives but at the moment they are sitting in the garage to see if there is any overnight leakage.

So far it's been easier and quicker than changing the tubes in my GP4000s' on my Roval Paves.

I'll try to keep this thread updated if anything of interest happens.

QWERTYUIOP (This is just to make it easier to search for)

ketsbaia

Asprilla wrote:

QWERTYUIOP (This is just to make it easier to search for)

Not if I put it in my sig, it won't.

But seriously, I'll be following this. Am interested in this tubeless malarky.

nicklouse

ketsbaia wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

QWERTYUIOP (This is just to make it easier to search for)

Not if I put it in my sig, it won't.

But seriously, I'll be following this. Am interested in this tubeless malarky.

or just hit your user name and then the all posts by user....

also a linky to the vid would be good.

Canny Jock

Asprilla wrote:

It was a lot easier than a standard clincher because there were no pinch flats to worry about. I've put on Schwalbe Marathon Plus before and it was no harder than that.

So, virtually impossible then

asprilla

nicklouse wrote:

ketsbaia wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

QWERTYUIOP (This is just to make it easier to search for)

Not if I put it in my sig, it won't.

But seriously, I'll be following this. Am interested in this tubeless malarky.

or just hit your user name and then the all posts by user....

also a linky to the vid would be good.

I'll try to add the link later, but the ones I've been watching can be found at notubes.com.

Roastie

I'm very interested to hear how you get on - I really like the idea of tubeless. It annoys me that the "road world" has been so slow to take up this tech.

asprilla

Ok, I missed the delivery of the latex sealant this morning so I'm not sure about using the tyres on Monday or not. I think I'll just bite the bullet.

Will be good to see how they compare to my previous tyre / wheel combo before and after adding sealant.

Roastie

Must admit that I'd wait until I had the sealant ...

greg66_tri_v2.0

Asprilla wrote:

Ok, I missed the delivery of the latex sealant this morning so I'm not sure about using the tyres on Monday or not. I think I'll just bite the bullet.

Will be good to see how they compare to my previous tyre / wheel combo before and after adding sealant.

What's the deal with sealant for tubeless? Optional safety net or highly advised?

And if the latter, does that mean you have to ride with a spare tyre and a can of sealant?

Anonymous

I did the same today, but with Stan's MTB wheels and standard Maxxis folding tyres.

Just out of curiosity I tried to pump mine up with out sealant and there was no chance.

Even with sealant it was quite a effort. Had to spin the sealant round in the tyre, pump like fook, spin again, pump like fook [repeat]. When they finally did start to keep some pressure you could hear the sealant popping and the tyres creaking as they finally got bedded in probably and the sealant made a seal.

asprilla

Greg66 wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Ok, I missed the delivery of the latex sealant this morning so I'm not sure about using the tyres on Monday or not. I think I'll just bite the bullet.

Will be good to see how they compare to my previous tyre / wheel combo before and after adding sealant.

What's the deal with sealant for tubeless? Optional safety net or highly advised?

And if the latter, does that mean you have to ride with a spare tyre and a can of sealant?

It's an optional safety net but highly recommended. If I get a puncture I can either patch the tyre or just stick a tube in as normal.

The general idea of using the sealant isn't to make sure the tyre fits properly, it's to seal any punctures as they happen, without the need to take the tyre off.

SamWise1972

I'm interested too. I had an airless rear tyre quite a lot of years ago, and it was a disaster; poor traction, terrible ride, frighteningly skittish on bumpy downhills, and it ultimately mullered my wheel, due to the extra hammering it was taking. I would like to hear that they've got better, and they work now.

fenboy369

I've got ghetto converted Conti Rubber Queens on my mtb, and I'll be looking at tubless for a commute bike when I get one. Is there a ghetto option for road wheels or would I need tubeless rims?

Roastie

Asprilla wrote:

The general idea of using the sealant isn't to make sure the tyre fits properly, it's to seal any punctures as they happen, without the need to take the tyre off.

Ah.

asprilla

SamWise1972 wrote:

I'm interested too. I had an airless rear tyre quite a lot of years ago, and it was a disaster; poor traction, terrible ride, frighteningly skittish on bumpy downhills, and it ultimately mullered my wheel, due to the extra hammering it was taking. I would like to hear that they've got better, and they work now.

These aren't airless tyres, just tubeless. You still inflate them it's just that there is no tube inside the clincher. You do, however, put liquid latex inside (not enough to fill it, just so it coats the inside of the tyre when it's spinning) so that if anything penetrates the latex will seal the gap and stop the air escaping.

fenboy369 wrote:

I've got ghetto converted Conti Rubber Queens on my mtb, and I'll be looking at tubless for a commute bike when I get one. Is there a ghetto option for road wheels or would I need tubeless rims?

Dunno. I think you can do conversion, but I'm not sure. Have a look at notubes.com.

desweller

What's the weight penalty of the latex in the rim?

asprilla

DesWeller wrote:

What's the weight penalty of the latex in the rim?

About 50g, same as a tube.

Edit, turns out I may need that sealant or to just to the soapy water lubrication thing because at the moment the tyres aren't holding their pressure overnight.

prawny

Asprilla wrote:

fenboy369 wrote:

I've got ghetto converted Conti Rubber Queens on my mtb, and I'll be looking at tubless for a commute bike when I get one. Is there a ghetto option for road wheels or would I need tubeless rims?

Dunno. I think you can do conversion, but I'm not sure. Have a look at notubes.com.

You can convert the wheels but you have to use tubeless tyres. Which is a bit of a shame I can only think of one tubeless road tyre off the top of my head.

asprilla

One manufacturer, but they have a range that runs to a whole tyres. The choice is endless.

Hutchinson do the Intensive (much protection and lasts a long time) the Fusion 3 (medium protection and medium longevity) and the Atom (poor protection and longevity).

Spesh offer some as well, but they are rebadged Hutchinsons AFAIK.

Headhuunter

Roastie wrote:

I'm very interested to hear how you get on - I really like the idea of tubeless. It annoys me that the "road world" has been so slow to take up this tech.

I remember reading somewhere that there's a reason why tubeless tyres are more useful in teh MTB world. Something to do with the ability to run at lower pressures and increase traction which is less of an advantage on the road... Can't specifically remember what it was. It's the same with disc brakes, why has the MTB world embraced them but not roadies?

I don't completely understand tubeless though. What happens if you get a puncture? Do you have to carry around a whole spare tyre to replace the punctured one with? If you puncture twice are you shafted and walking? Not option to patch a tubless tyre?

el_presidente

Headhuunter wrote:

Roastie wrote:

I'm very interested to hear how you get on - I really like the idea of tubeless. It annoys me that the "road world" has been so slow to take up this tech.

I remember reading somewhere that there's a reason why tubeless tyres are more useful in teh MTB world. Something to do with the ability to run at lower pressures and increase traction which is less of an advantage on the road... Can't specifically remember what it was. It's the same with disc brakes, why has the MTB world embraced them but not roadies?

I don't completely understand tubeless though. What happens if you get a puncture? Do you have to carry around a whole spare tyre to replace the punctured one with? If you puncture twice are you shafted and walking? Not option to patch a tubless tyre?

MTBers often like to run low tye pressures a) it's more comfy, especially with bigger tyres b) you get a bigger contact patch thus increasing grip. However low pressures increase the risk of snakebite punctures in tubes - hence run tubeless and you eliminate this risk. The other benefit is that as Asprilla says because the tube is full of sealant, if you do pierce the tyre it will often self repair.

Obviously the low pressure thing is less of an issue on road, though as we know snakebites still happen so the benefit is still there, as is the self-repair.

You don't need to carry a whole tyre around, just a tube - if you puncture through the tyre just stick a tube in as per the usual system.

asprilla

The alledged advantages of tubeless tyres:

1) They have lower rolling resistance which means you can run them at lower pressures and get more grip and more comfort.

2) Since there is no tube you can't get pinch flats.

3) Small punctures are supposed to be self sealing.

If you get a puncture that doesn't seal your options are:

Glue the hole (if quite small), patch the hole (if too big for sealant and glue) or lastly just chuck a standard tube in like you would a normal tyre.

Headhuunter

Asprilla wrote:

The alledged advantages of tubeless tyres:

1) They have lower rolling resistance which means you can run them at lower pressures and get more grip and more comfort.

2) Since there is no tube you can't get pinch flats.

3) Small punctures are supposed to be self sealing.

If you get a puncture that doesn't seal your options are:

Glue the hole (if quite small), patch the hole (if too big for sealant and glue) or lastly just chuck a standard tube in like you would a normal tyre.

Ah OK, so you can bring a spare tube along as before and stick that in if desperate. Where does the sealant go BTW, not in the actual air space in the tyre?

asprilla

Headhuunter wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

The alledged advantages of tubeless tyres:

1) They have lower rolling resistance which means you can run them at lower pressures and get more grip and more comfort.

2) Since there is no tube you can't get pinch flats.

3) Small punctures are supposed to be self sealing.

If you get a puncture that doesn't seal your options are:

Glue the hole (if quite small), patch the hole (if too big for sealant and glue) or lastly just chuck a standard tube in like you would a normal tyre.

Ah OK, so you can bring a spare tube along as before and stick that in if desperate. Where does the sealant go BTW, not in the actual air space in the tyre?

Yup, in the airspace in the tyre. You just remove the valve core and pour it in before inflating the tyre.

Headhuunter

Asprilla wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

The alledged advantages of tubeless tyres:

1) They have lower rolling resistance which means you can run them at lower pressures and get more grip and more comfort.

2) Since there is no tube you can't get pinch flats.

3) Small punctures are supposed to be self sealing.

If you get a puncture that doesn't seal your options are:

Glue the hole (if quite small), patch the hole (if too big for sealant and glue) or lastly just chuck a standard tube in like you would a normal tyre.

Ah OK, so you can bring a spare tube along as before and stick that in if desperate. Where does the sealant go BTW, not in the actual air space in the tyre?

Yup, in the airspace in the tyre. You just remove the valve core and pour it in before inflating the tyre.

Really? Sounds bizarre! How do you know how much sealant to pour in, I mean you're not looking to fill the tyre! So the sealant just sort of floats around in the tyre in blobs and then gets pushed to the site of the puncture by the air rushing out. Sort of like what happens with the passengers of a 747 if someone breaks a window....

asprilla

You put about 50g in according to the guide.

The rotation of the tyre spreads the sealant around the inside of the tyre. Not sure exactly what the process is for it sealing punctures, but MTBers who use it are very confident.

lost_in_thought

*potentially silly questions*

Are the tyres tubular then? Or are they like ordinary clincher tyres? Do you have to glue them onto the rim?

Are these 'tubs' or something else altogether? Am I having a blonde moment?

jonginge

Tubbs:


Tubs have the inner tube sewn into the tyre carcass. The rim section is concave and the tub just sits (is glued) on it. One puncture and you replace, though. Pros are lighter rim weight, better rolling resistance and cornering.

Tubeless are like regular clincher tyres but the rim beads need to be more secure and the base of the rim needs to be airtight.

lost_in_thought

Ohhhhhhhhh so these are a different thing altogether...

I was wondering how you got an inner-tube into a tubular tyre.*

*I really shouldn't admit that I have these stupid thoughts. Lowers my credibility.

Aidy

I've been thinking about trying tubeless-ness.

Have some Ksyriums, and whilst not tubeless rims, they do have a un-holed inner rim - so stuff should work without too much faffing.

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Ohhhhhhhhh so these are a different thing altogether...

I was wondering how you got an inner-tube into a tubular tyre.*

*I really shouldn't admit that I have these stupid thoughts. Lowers my credibility.

Basically tubless are like car tyres....