Clipless pedals = worse injuries in an accident (Discuss)

markos1963

When I was 16(God that was30 years ago) I was in a crit wearing clips and straps and predictably I had a crash. The bike tried to cartwheel and the only thing that stopped it were my achillies tendons, unfortunatly they gave up the fight and decided to rupture. I had 12 weeks off college/work and 30 years off bicycles.
Fast forward to winter 2009 and there's me riding down the road on a frosty morning with clipless pedals when I decide to reinact the crash I had 30 years previously. The bike cartwheels down the road in similar fashion but without me this time and no injuries apart from a scratched knee.
Point proved I think

snailracer

redddraggon wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

2) I have something called technique which allows me to use flats on the road with probably about 75% the efficiency of clipless ones, which im happy with if it means not sustaining bad injurys in a fall when i do my technical terrain areas.

75% the efficiency of clipless pedals? Lol. You think that;s good?

Losing 25% of bugger all is less than bugger all. I reckon most of the energy is lost by the foot squirming around inside the shoe, which happens even with clipless shoes, simply because a foot is much softer than the sole of just about any shoe.
Does anyone know of any manufacturer who claims their clipless system is X% more efficient than flats?

Valy

snailracer wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

2) I have something called technique which allows me to use flats on the road with probably about 75% the efficiency of clipless ones, which im happy with if it means not sustaining bad injurys in a fall when i do my technical terrain areas.

75% the efficiency of clipless pedals? Lol. You think that;s good?

Losing 25% of bugger all is less than bugger all. I reckon most of the energy is lost by the foot squirming around inside the shoe, which happens even with clipless shoes, simply because a foot is much softer than the sole of just about any shoe.
Does anyone know of any manufacturer who claims their clipless system is X% more efficient than flats?

Neeeeeeerrrrr.

desweller

It's got to be better than toeclips. Getting your feet out of those things in a hurry just ain't gonna happen.

Flats are not as bad as some are making out though. Unless you're pulling up on the pedals a lot (and very, very few riders do) then you're OK as long as the pedal surface has been well designed (i.e. spreads load well and doesn't slip in the wet).

jrduquemin

Where did the troll go?

shouldbeinbed

bennett364: your knee ligaments hyperextend?

do you mean that your knee will flex backwards to a degree?

if so what do SPD cleats have to do with it? set your seat height so that your knees never quite straighten and bobs yer uncle.

also what's to stop it happening with flat pedals with the same leg reach as cleats? more chance of losing the pedal and planting your leg straight down onto the floor & likely to cause a classic leg planted hyperextension injury.

you also mention falling off in slow technical bits, assumedly with flats meaning that you're more likely to be putting your leg out and down and therefore greatly increasing the risk of a hyperextension injury as above rather than being clipped into your bike with your knee bent the right way and you at worst landing side on onto it.

did your Dr see you on your bike and advise on seat height vs leg bend etc and is s/he a cyclist and/or experienced in the sort of terriain you ride?

rake

bennett_346 wrote:

freehub wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

1) I want my knees to work when im 50
2) I don't see how attaching my feet to the pedals gives me any advantage, if you have the proper technique then flats allow you to ride technical slow terrain without risk of serious injury, because you can land how you like (to a degree).

What a load of shite.

If you want your knees to work when you're 50 you get cleats set up properly, and use yellow ones (SPD-SL)

Use your head, unless your shoes have some sort of artificial gravity plate, then the advantages of clipless pedals is obvious.

1) Thanks for rushing to conclusions. I was advised by mmy doctor not to use SPD pedals because my knee ligaments hyperextend, and whether they have upsides or not, i'd rather not take the risk of having bad knees when im older.

2) I have something called technique which allows me to use flats on the road with probably about 75% the efficiency of clipless ones, which im happy with if it means not sustaining bad injurys in a fall when i do my technical terrain areas.

why didnt you state your ligament abnormalities when you asked the question. its kind of a pointless question if you know you cant use clipless. its like asking if matches can burn when you have no hands to strike one. its common to develop your pedal technique by turning the pedals in circles rather than just pushing down, so most experienced cyclists will pull up and push fore/aft as well which you cant do with flatbeds and why people use clipless. i did all of my stunt riding as a child and dont want to prove anything now by falling off. either slow down or look ahead. A rent I a clever bstard.

bigjim

I came off on the first day of a cycling break in Mallorca this year. I did a lot of damage to my arm and it is still not right. I was clipped in at the time. two years ago I came off and bust two ribs and badly cut up. I was clipped in. Nothing to do with being a bad cyclist. I do not know if being clipped in contributed but on the last occassion if I had been able to just drop both feet onto the floor I think I would not have been so badly injured. I have had bad knee problems from cycling for 2 years. But perservered. 2 months ago I tried cycling with flats. I feel so much more comfortable. I now have no knee problems and do not see any difference in my times. Of course the pedals are lighter and so are my shoes. I notice with the flats that my feet constantly adjust with the terrain or cadence and so I presume do my knees and hips. They are not locked in! I do not slip off pedals. As to more power put down on clipless. Not convinced. Your feet and legs are full of muscles. If you are not locked into one position does this not mean that all these muscles can be utilised to produce power? I am still in experimental mode so we shall see. What TDF riders use [not applicable to me as I will never be one] is what they are told to use by their sponsors and will always be narrowly focused for the fittest and fastest. There is nobody waiting to massage my legs at the end of the day. There is also a lot of money to be made in marketing clipless systems to the ordinary Joe. I am not saying flats are for everyone and maybe I will revert to clipless but at the moment they are working for me. Read the URL below with an open mind.
http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/misc.htm#Clipless

Pross

They might be less safe than pedals with no toe straps at all but as most serious cyclists would have previously used cleats and straps then clipless is an improvement especially as they are designed to pull free in a higher speed crash. With the old straps, done up tight, your feet were far harder to get free in an emergency.

desweller

bigjim wrote:

I came off on the first day of a cycling break in Mallorca this year. I did a lot of damage to my arm and it is still not right. I was clipped in at the time. two years ago I came off and bust two ribs and badly cut up. I was clipped in. Nothing to do with being a bad cyclist. I do not know if being clipped in contributed but on the last occassion if I had been able to just drop both feet onto the floor I think I would not have been so badly injured. I have had bad knee problems from cycling for 2 years. But perservered. 2 months ago I tried cycling with flats. I feel so much more comfortable. I now have no knee problems and do not see any difference in my times. Of course the pedals are lighter and so are my shoes. I notice with the flats that my feet constantly adjust with the terrain or cadence and so I presume do my knees and hips. They are not locked in! I do not slip off pedals. As to more power put down on clipless. Not convinced. Your feet and legs are full of muscles. If you are not locked into one position does this not mean that all these muscles can be utilised to produce power? I am still in experimental mode so we shall see. What TDF riders use [not applicable to me as I will never be one] is what they are told to use by their sponsors and will always be narrowly focused for the fittest and fastest. There is nobody waiting to massage my legs at the end of the day. There is also a lot of money to be made in marketing clipless systems to the ordinary Joe. I am not saying flats are for everyone and maybe I will revert to clipless but at the moment they are working for me. Read the URL below with an open mind.
http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/misc.htm#Clipless

No offence but it sounds to me like your cleats were badly set up. I had knee problems with SPDs until I got the cleat position sorted. Now I am 2 1/2 years into riding with them on a daily basis and my knees are fine.

Valy

DesWeller wrote:

bigjim wrote:

I came off on the first day of a cycling break in Mallorca this year. I did a lot of damage to my arm and it is still not right. I was clipped in at the time. two years ago I came off and bust two ribs and badly cut up. I was clipped in. Nothing to do with being a bad cyclist. I do not know if being clipped in contributed but on the last occassion if I had been able to just drop both feet onto the floor I think I would not have been so badly injured. I have had bad knee problems from cycling for 2 years. But perservered. 2 months ago I tried cycling with flats. I feel so much more comfortable. I now have no knee problems and do not see any difference in my times. Of course the pedals are lighter and so are my shoes. I notice with the flats that my feet constantly adjust with the terrain or cadence and so I presume do my knees and hips. They are not locked in! I do not slip off pedals. As to more power put down on clipless. Not convinced. Your feet and legs are full of muscles. If you are not locked into one position does this not mean that all these muscles can be utilised to produce power? I am still in experimental mode so we shall see. What TDF riders use [not applicable to me as I will never be one] is what they are told to use by their sponsors and will always be narrowly focused for the fittest and fastest. There is nobody waiting to massage my legs at the end of the day. There is also a lot of money to be made in marketing clipless systems to the ordinary Joe. I am not saying flats are for everyone and maybe I will revert to clipless but at the moment they are working for me. Read the URL below with an open mind.
http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/misc.htm#Clipless

No offence but it sounds to me like your cleats were badly set up. I had knee problems with SPDs until I got the cleat position sorted. Now I am 2 1/2 years into riding with them on a daily basis and my knees are fine.

I think that is the single biggest drawback for me with SPDs. I've had mine for a few months now and still playing around with the cleats.

bigjim

No offence but it sounds to me like your cleats were badly set up. I had knee problems with SPDs until I got the cleat position sorted. Now I am 2 1/2 years into riding with them on a daily basis and my knees are fine.

I have spent hours and ridden hundreds of miles trying to set my cleats correctly. Angles. degrees of float etc. Read all the instructions, sat on chairs, tables, dangling my legs, marking the soles, tried it all. tried different makes and shoes. etc, etc. I enjoy cleats! I wish I could use them without problems. I like the feel of them, but most of all, I really , really like my painfree knees. We are all different with different physiques that are carved from childhood and not made to order to fit what Mr Shimano, et al, dictates. I will try them again but at the moment the platforms seem to suit.

Jim

rake

theres no way im going to use platforms at he moment. :roll:

MattC59

I've been mountain biking since the mid 80's and used SPDs exclusively since 1990 (started on old XT grenades ). I've been road biking for a year or so now, and have exclusively used Ultegra SPD-SLs. In all that time, I've never had a crash whare I could say injuries were compounded by the use of clipless pedals.

As fo the comment about flats being better on slow technical stuff, I'd have to disagree, being attached to the bike allows me to move my mtb around more.

That said, trials riders seem to do ok with flats, but they're not having to pedal much..........

Valy

I think for technical stuff platform SPDs look like a good bet. I dono what they are like, but I assume that they are like flats with spds... as they errr... are. :P

If you go over some rough stuff without being clipped in/attached to the pedals your feet may bounce, which could lead you to crashing.

It all depends...

rake

where do you ride technical stuff on the road :roll:

snailracer

rake wrote:

where do you ride technical stuff on the road :roll:

Potholes. Drains. Bridleways. Kerbhopping. Steep hills. Cobbles. Roadkill. Avoiding being roadkilled :P

rake

snailracer wrote:

rake wrote:

where do you ride technical stuff on the road :roll:

Potholes. Drains. Bridleways. Kerbhopping. Steep hills. Cobbles. Roadkill. Avoiding being roadkilled :P

bridleway isnt road. neither are cobbles. are you saying you have difficulty turning for potholes. as for kerbhopping your not really a roadie are you, try the mtb section.

Valy

rake wrote:

where do you ride technical stuff on the road :roll:

I was talking about off-road stuff - SPDs in general.

snailracer

rake wrote:

snailracer wrote:

rake wrote:

where do you ride technical stuff on the road :roll:

Potholes. Drains. Bridleways. Kerbhopping. Steep hills. Cobbles. Roadkill. Avoiding being roadkilled :P

bridleway isnt road. neither are cobbles. are you saying you have difficulty turning for potholes. as for kerbhopping your not really a roadie are you, try the mtb section.

I wish my roads (and motorists) were as nice as yours.

nwallace

rake wrote:

snailracer wrote:

rake wrote:

where do you ride technical stuff on the road :roll:

Potholes. Drains. Bridleways. Kerbhopping. Steep hills. Cobbles. Roadkill. Avoiding being roadkilled :P

bridleway isnt road. neither are cobbles. are you saying you have difficulty turning for potholes. as for kerbhopping your not really a roadie are you, try the mtb section.

Cobbles are found on roads, the majority of roads in Dundee were spray tarred on top of the cobbles, they are in various states of decay from can feel cobbles through the tar to big patches of cobbles available, and some have never seen tar either.

As for potholes and kerb hopping or road bikes, don't really need to slow down, can lift my road bike easier than my MTB partly because I am strapped in.

rake

:roll:

redddraggon

Riding Cobbles is hardly difficult anyway. Wouldn't call it technical.

cee

Valy wrote:

If you go over some rough stuff without being clipped in/attached to the pedals your feet may bounce, which could lead you to crashing.

I have never tried SPD's...but fancy giving it a go...

I mostly ride off-road...but ride to work on the road...always in flats...

I have to say..i have never had my feet bounce off the pedals on even the roughest sections of road...and actually...even off road...

I wear shoes with a soft skate-style grip on the bottom...Is it a bigger issue in harder soled shoes?

boneyjoe

Think if you're new to SPDs, not confident in using them, or conditions are wet and slippery, then you can come off worse. Tend to make the tension quite loose, which gives a bit more float when pedaling, and allows a quick release when needed. However, there are still some instances (usuallly on slippery roots :evil: ) where the foot doesn't release in time, and can be quite painful. Can also get a nasty bruise on the butt from the saddle nose when face-planting over the bars!

Still prefer to use SPDs though!

Valy

cee wrote:

Valy wrote:

If you go over some rough stuff without being clipped in/attached to the pedals your feet may bounce, which could lead you to crashing.

I have never tried SPD's...but fancy giving it a go...

I mostly ride off-road...but ride to work on the road...always in flats...

I have to say..i have never had my feet bounce off the pedals on even the roughest sections of road...and actually...even off road...

I wear shoes with a soft skate-style grip on the bottom...Is it a bigger issue in harder soled shoes?

You are more secure on the bike with SPDs over flats, so in my experience, going over rough terrain it help to keep the feet planted. Of course softer shoes would help to keep contact better.

RD wrote:

Riding Cobbles is hardly difficult anyway. Wouldn't call it technical.

If you are riding at speed your feet can come off the pedals, especially if it's wet.

Rake - why are you being so ghey?

bigjim

If you are riding at speed your feet can come off the pedals, especially if it's wet.

Mine don't.

Valy

bigjim wrote:

If you are riding at speed your feet can come off the pedals, especially if it's wet.

Mine don't.

...or shall I say there is a higher chance of them coming off.

guilliano

I have knee problems, I use SPD-SL. To set them up I got on the exercise bike, looked at my feet on the pedals and set my cleats and saddle accordingly. Never had a problem. Previous injuries include hyperextension and also ruptured cruciate. If they are set up well there is no reason for them to cause further problems. Only had one off caused by SPD, on the mountain bike, and only because my cleat bolts came loose and I couldn't unclip. Whenever I've crashed my feet have come away from the pedals without issue

Valy

Just remembered - the cleats that let you unclip by pulling upwards sharply prevented me from falling a few times when I was about to fall over as I slowly came to a halt going uphill while loosing traction/having roots in my way on a steep path.