No politics, please: Quick IRA question.

Gotte

I was talking to someone today about the 70s, and the full term "Provisional IRA", came up. We both realised that we didn't actually know why the term "Provisional" was used, and whether it was used by their enemies in a perjorative sense (in that they weren't a real army), or by themselves. Had a quick look on Google, but still none the wiser. Any one know?

Lillywhite

I believe the Provos as they were known were unofficial IRA members.

bompington

The PIRA split from the Official (original) IRA, (basically the organisation that staged the Easter uprising in 1916) in 1969 - essentially as a more militant organisation that perceived the official IRA as too moderate.

What goes around.... (mild political comment)

nolf

bompington wrote:

The PIRA split from the Official (original) IRA, (basically the organisation that staged the Easter uprising in 1916) in 1969 - essentially as a more militant organisation that perceived the official IRA as too moderate.

What goes around.... (mild political comment)

+1.

Also sometimes seen as the militant wing of the IRA, not entirely sure of the seperation between the two.

You also have groups like "The real IRA" that see the IRA as not radical enough.

Cleat Eastwood

nolf wrote:

[
Also sometimes seen as the militant wing of the IRA, not entirely sure of the seperation between the two.

You also have groups like "The real IRA" that see the IRA as not radical enough.

I think you mean militant wing of Sinn Fein. By their nature teh IRA, of all colours, advocate violent resistance to what they see as illegal UK control over the six counties.

They were provisional becaus ethey were/ are a terrorist organisation with no legitimacy or mandate from the Irish people. Outlawed and illegal by the uk and irish government.

iainment

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

nolf wrote:

[
Also sometimes seen as the militant wing of the IRA, not entirely sure of the seperation between the two.

You also have groups like "The real IRA" that see the IRA as not radical enough.

I think you mean militant wing of Sinn Fein. By their nature teh IRA, of all colours, advocate violent resistance to what they see as illegal UK control over the six counties.

They were provisional becaus ethey were/ are a terrorist organisation with no legitimacy or mandate from the Irish people. Outlawed and illegal by the uk and irish government.

They named themselves the Provisional IRA. They thought they had a mandate, certainly in Northern Ireland, and given the current make up of the Stormont Government who is to say they were wrong.

Provisional because the 32 County state had not been formed I think - but this is just my guess. After unification presumably they would have looked to get some sort of plebiscite that would change the name to something reflecting a more permanent status.

softlad

maybe they were provisional because they hadn't passed their driving tests yet..?

tebbit

The IRA declared a cease fire in the early seventies, however groups within the IRA did not agree, hence the splinter groups from the IRA the Provisionals and the INLA spring to mind as being formed from the splinter groups who wanted to continue with armed struggle.

The attitude of a lot of the lads from Belfast I went to college with in the early nineties was they were heartily sick of the whole thing and there was no sectarian divide between the students from both sides of the border. One American tried to start a conversation about it, but was told "if your that bothered about it, f**king live there yourself"

Gotte

Thanks for that. So in that respect, did they give themselves the prefix "Provisional" because they were unofficial? It still seems a peculiar word to choose for yourself, as it infers (to me, at any rate) a notion of not being qualified or properly trained.

Ollieda

Maybe they intended provisional to mean how the IRA was before going "soft" as they saw it. i.e. going back to the ways they were before.

Pross

softlad wrote:

maybe they were provisional because they hadn't passed their driving tests yet..?

Or had BC membership but no racing licence?

Pross

According to Wiki

Traditional republicans formed the "Provisional" Army Council in December 1969

so I assume it was waiting to be formalised and the name just stuck?

Cleat Eastwood

Gotte wrote:

Thanks for that. So in that respect, did they give themselves the prefix "Provisional" because they were unofficial? It still seems a peculiar word to choose for yourself, as it infers (to me, at any rate) a notion of not being qualified or properly trained.

No,what was alluding to was , they are provisional in that ireland was not united given that 6 counties were occupied. So they were the only armed opposition to the occupation (effectively they saw themselves as the only faction actively fightingfor freedom on the island, they were, you must remember a marxist based organisation who distrusted the Irish republics acceptance of the british presence) ,

So they defined themselves as an army formed only for as long as the occupation remained, that is for a provisional period of time. Once/if Ireland was united as a republic then they would disband. This effectively put th eresponsibilty for violence in the 6 counties at door of the uK govt, it therefore put political pressure on the UK to seek to withdraw from the 6 counties and thus end one facet of sectarian violence.

Because of the poitical nature of their position they argued that all IRA internees were political prisoners rather than sectarian thugs.

This same position wa sheld by the protestant UDF too,

As was alsometioned above thoough, inmy experience with the Irish i've met at uni and since in the pubs round here, they could give a toss and just want to leave those dark days behind.

Oh and they had no racing license.

So, provisional in that they planned to disband when their goals were achieved.

garrynolan

Not forgetting the Continuity IRA, INLA, IRSP then on the other side.. UDA, UVF (not UDF), YCV. There are/were many other very small groups/factions within the larger organisations. Still a lot of work to be done in the communities of NI to change mindsets re: Us and Them and to learn to trust each other. The charity I help does this and the skills they have developed are used worldwide. Have a look at www.glencree.ie for more and at my signature below if you'd like help with funding (I'm using my mid-life crisis in a positive way ). As recent events have shown, there's a lot still to do!