A Miscellany of Ignorance

Coriander

Hi,

OK, now be nice; in the below there are undoubtedly some dumb questions, but I would appreciate your thoughts please.

1) Do the sprinters' lead out men ever get fed up with being the understudy and move to be the lead sprinter on another team? If they do, do they usually have a successful time as the star man? And given how crucial Renshaw, for example, is to Cav, is his pay packet anything like as large as Cav's?

2) Is there a pre-determined order to the the team cars? Because if you have a mechanical at a crucial time it could make a massive difference to you where your car is in the procession, couldn't it?

3) Now this is probably the really dumb question but I'll risk it - given that on stages like yesterday and today everyone knows that any breakaway will be probably be caught and it will end as a bunch sprint, why make those poor men cycle 227km in blazing heat, why not just start them 10km from the finish line?

4) Vino is ahead of Bertie in GC - what are the chances of him actually working for Bertie in the rest of the race?

5) Last year when Thor went off on that remarkable break and hoovered up all the green jersey points the day after the Disqualification Incident, he was caught by the peleton pretty much immediately after he'd taken the last available points - did that indicate that the peleton was on his side and that they let him make his point so emphatically or is it because once he had the points he sat up and let them catch him?

6) How come Evans suddenly has teammates working for him (I know he's on a different team)? And is that why we haven't yet seen him cracking up this year?

7) Who are the two men doing the voiceover in that irritating Barclay's ad that's always on on ITV4 - I just can't place them.

That's all for now. I know there was another question I had this afternoon, but I just can't remember it at the moment.

Thanks.

paulcuthbert

Coriander wrote:

Hi,

OK, now be nice; in the below there are undoubtedly some dumb questions, but I would appreciate your thoughts please.

1) Do the sprinters' lead out men ever get fed up with being the understudy and move to be the lead sprinter on another team? If they do, do they usually have a successful time as the star man? And given how crucial Renshaw, for example, is to Cav, is his pay packet anything like as large as Cav's?

2) Is there a pre-determined order to the the team cars? Because if you have a mechanical at a crucial time it could make a massive difference to you where your car is in the procession, couldn't it?

3) Now this is probably the really dumb question but I'll risk it - given that on stages like yesterday and today everyone knows that any breakaway will be probably be caught and it will end as a bunch sprint, why make those poor men cycle 227km in blazing heat, why not just start them 10km from the finish line?

4) Vino is ahead of Bertie in GC - what are the chances of him actually working for Bertie in the rest of the race?

5) Last year when Thor went off on that remarkable break and hoovered up all the green jersey points the day after the Disqualification Incident, he was caught by the peloton pretty much immediately after he'd taken the last available points - did that indicate that the peloton was on his side and that they let him make his point so emphatically or is it because once he had the points he sat up and let them catch him?

6) How come Evans suddenly has teammates working for him (I know he's on a different team)? And is that why we haven't yet seen him cracking up this year?

7) Who are the two men doing the voiceover in that irritating Barclay's ad that's always on on ITV4 - I just can't place them.

That's all for now. I know there was another question I had this afternoon, but I just can't remember it at the moment.

Thanks.

1) Don't know

2) Not sure - but I think it's whoever is leading on the stage/GC

3) Sometimes breakaways survive - look at Chavanel the other day

4) Higher he might be, but he probably realises that his team (thus his business interests as a team owner) are better off working for Contador

5) He sat up

6) He hasn't cracked cos he hasn't come to the high mountains yet...

7) No idea!

Hope this helps

redddraggon

Coriander wrote:

1) Do the sprinters' lead out men ever get fed up with being the understudy and move to be the lead sprinter on another team? If they do, do they usually have a successful time as the star man? And given how crucial Renshaw, for example, is to Cav, is his pay packet anything like as large as Cav's?

Cav's 2008 leadout man, Gerald Ciolek is the no 1 sprinter for Milram these days.

Doobz

Contador is just about to sign a new deal with Astana. He would not do that if he thinks he is about to be shafted by Vino. We all saw what happened to Vino in the hills in the Giro.. Say no more really..

58585

For 4) change the names to Thomas and Wiggins and the question gets a lot more interesting.

TommyEss

Coriander wrote:

Hi,

OK, now be nice; in the below there are undoubtedly some dumb questions, but I would appreciate your thoughts please.

1) Do the sprinters' lead out men ever get fed up with being the understudy and move to be the lead sprinter on another team? If they do, do they usually have a successful time as the star man? And given how crucial Renshaw, for example, is to Cav, is his pay packet anything like as large as Cav's?

2) Is there a pre-determined order to the the team cars? Because if you have a mechanical at a crucial time it could make a massive difference to you where your car is in the procession, couldn't it?

3) Now this is probably the really dumb question but I'll risk it - given that on stages like yesterday and today everyone knows that any breakaway will be probably be caught and it will end as a bunch sprint, why make those poor men cycle 227km in blazing heat, why not just start them 10km from the finish line?

4) Vino is ahead of Bertie in GC - what are the chances of him actually working for Bertie in the rest of the race?

5) Last year when Thor went off on that remarkable break and hoovered up all the green jersey points the day after the Disqualification Incident, he was caught by the peloton pretty much immediately after he'd taken the last available points - did that indicate that the peloton was on his side and that they let him make his point so emphatically or is it because once he had the points he sat up and let them catch him?

6) How come Evans suddenly has teammates working for him (I know he's on a different team)? And is that why we haven't yet seen him cracking up this year?

7) Who are the two men doing the voiceover in that irritating Barclay's ad that's always on on ITV4 - I just can't place them.

That's all for now. I know there was another question I had this afternoon, but I just can't remember it at the moment.

Thanks.

Hi Cori!

1: Answered already - Ciolek is a good example, Boassen-Hagen's been contesting the sprints for Sky now after leaving Columbia-HTC also.

2: I'm pretty sure lots are drawn for the car order - can't remember where I read that though, but you're right, it can make a huge difference, particularly when the roads get narrower or the field gets strung out - e.g. mountains, or pavé sections.

3: The breakaways do sometimes make it - they're also a great opportunity for those riders to get their team's sponsors some valuable air time. In some cases, this can be enough to secure further sponsorhip.

4: Vino will work for Bertie. There's no need for Bertie to be so high in the GC just yet - he'll be one of, if not the strongest when the roads start going up, and he'll make up more than enough time to get into yellow. It's a long race, so he can bide his time.

5: Answered.

6: Cadel - he's a strange one - he certainly seems to have a stronger team around him now - Hincapie seems great for him (as he was for Cav last year) - he also seems much happier in himself now he has the rainbow jersey - I guess he's not really the "nearly" man now - although I'm sure he'd still kill to pull on the maillot jaune in Paris. Have to see how he gets on in the mountains - he didn't do too badly in the Giro.

7: No idea - not even sure which advery you're talking about!!!

Hope that helps!

Tom

donrhummy

Coriander wrote:

1) Do the sprinters' lead out men ever get fed up with being the understudy and move to be the lead sprinter on another team? If they do, do they usually have a successful time as the star man? And given how crucial Renshaw, for example, is to Cav, is his pay packet anything like as large as Cav's?

Sometimes, it depends on the rider and the state of their career. If it's a younger guy, then he'll be fine for a few years until he wants his chance too.

Coriander wrote:

2) Is there a pre-determined order to the the team cars? Because if you have a mechanical at a crucial time it could make a massive difference to you where your car is in the procession, couldn't it?

Sort of yes, sort of no. When everyone's together, the cars actually fight each other a bit for position. If your guy gets into a breakaway that has enough time on the peloton (I think it needs to be at least 30 seconds or more), you can go ahead to help your rider.

Coriander wrote:

3) Now this is probably the really dumb question but I'll risk it - given that on stages like yesterday and today everyone knows that any breakaway will be probably be caught and it will end as a bunch sprint, why make those poor men cycle 227km in blazing heat, why not just start them 10km from the finish line?

Two reasons:
1. Sometimes they do actually make it. If they work together well, if the peloton mistimes it or hits some crosswind, if there's a crash in the peloton, they can survive.

2. Part of the TDF is a race of attrition. If they rode 10km stages, then you'd lose a lot of the toughness of the later stages. That's why Contador won the last big TT last year and not Cancellara. It's also why the mountains in the third week are so tough. If they faced those mountains with numerous days of only 10km in their legs, they'd all be so fresh you wouldn't see people cracking/bonking.

Coriander wrote:

4) Vino is ahead of Bertie in GC - what are the chances of him actually working for Bertie in the rest of the race?

History would say he wouldn't but he actually fought hard for Contador on stage 3.

Coriander wrote:

5) Last year when Thor went off on that remarkable break and hoovered up all the green jersey points the day after the Disqualification Incident, he was caught by the peloton pretty much immediately after he'd taken the last available points - did that indicate that the peloton was on his side and that they let him make his point so emphatically or is it because once he had the points he sat up and let them catch him?

I wouldn't say they were helping him at all, they just never pull back breakaways too early and he also ran out of gas eventually. I'd say it's more a case of Hushovd turned off his engine/gas once he got that last point.

Coriander wrote:

6) How come Evans suddenly has teammates working for him (I know he's on a different team)? And is that why we haven't yet seen him cracking up this year?

Um...he had plenty of teammates working for him in the past first of all, but secondly, this early in the race he's always had guys with him. I like Evans but the guy complains about his team a LOT, including at this year's Giro. When we hit the mountains, that's when we'll see what team he has.

Coriander wrote:

7) Who are the two men doing the voiceover in that irritating Barclay's ad that's always on on ITV4 - I just can't place them.

No idea.

RichN95.

1) Yes, occasionally. As has been mentioedn Ciolek used to be Cav's lead out. Sometimes rising sprinters serve an apprentiship as a lead out. They're not usually that successful. Renshaw certainly will be well paid. He'll probably make more as the best lead-out man than he would as an average sprinter.

2) The order of cars is determined by the position of the riders on GC. So currently the order will be Saxo, Sky, BMC etc

3) Two reasons. a) Sometimes the breaks do stay away. b) It gets their sponsor's name on worldwide TV for several hours.

4) He probably will, but Vino has a history of just doing his own thing.

5) It was just nobody had anything to gain by chasing, so they didn't bother. Then he sat up.

6) We haven't got to any mountains yet. He seems happier.

7) Which Barclays advert? Stephen Merchant (Ricky Gervais's sidekick) does the voiceovers for some Barclays adverts, but he's on his own.

MJackson

7)

I'm almost 100% certain the Barclays ad guy is Stephen Merchant. Ricky Gervais' mate on his podcasts.

All the other questions should have been answered now with this many replies.

Pross

7 is Merchant sad that is the one I can answer lol

tomb8555

According to Phil and Paul on ITV's commentary, the cars are in GC order.

Jeriko

donrhummy wrote:

I like Evans but the guy complains about his team a LOT, including at this year's Giro

I'm somewhat new to pro cycling and was shocked when I first heard lead riders rather bluntly giving negative assessments of their teams. I guess everyone knows their role and is professional about it, but it can't be good for the ego when the guy you ride yourself silly for talks like it's a foregone conclusion you're going to do sh*t in the upcoming race.

Bugly

Jeriko wrote:

donrhummy wrote:

I like Evans but the guy complains about his team a LOT, including at this year's Giro

I'm somewhat new to pro cycling and was shocked when I first heard lead riders rather bluntly giving negative assessments of their teams. I guess everyone knows their role and is professional about it, but it can't be good for the ego when the guy you ride yourself silly for talks like it's a foregone conclusion you're going to do sh*t in the upcoming race.[/quote

Lotto was a shite team - they never had the money and talent to build a team around a GC contendor. More fool Cadel for staying as long as he did.

He seems to be happier and has more support at BMC, His critisism of the team at the GIRO was spot on, It was a second string team - the best were supporting Hincappie in TofCal. (understandably considering its an US team). Cadel rode the Giro essentially alone and did a bloody good job.

Evans may not win this year but BMC look to have a good GC team in this TdF and I would not expect any complaints from Cadel this time.